313 Achievements????

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by ehz0689, Oct 28, 2021.

  1. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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  2. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Jeepers.... All this hot air over the lack of achievements. I think it's only fair that either everyone gets them, or no one gets them. I understand the issues with PlayStation issues at the moment, so guessing they didn't give them to Xbox players to continue a parity between platforms.

    If DTG aren't going to add achievements to loco packs, then they need to drop the price to £7.99 on console imho.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Just because they're losing sales from Playstation players who won't buy without trophies, they shouldn't throw away additional sales from XBox users who won't buy without achievements. That's a terrible decision. We're grown up enough to understand that this is a PS issue; there's no need to hobble everyone else until it gets sorted.
     
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  4. anthonyhodgson77

    anthonyhodgson77 New Member

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    Achievements are a massive part of the xbox community. It's highly likely a game or dlc won't sell if there's no achievements. I for one instantly got a refund on the 313 when I seen there was no achievements. Like someone else said, it keeps you coming back to the game. Especially with long grindy achievements
     
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  5. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I know I’ve posted this in the DTG Announcements forum as well but it seems appropriate here. I was 50/50 on getting this loco but it seems that just because Playstations can’t get achievements/trophies, the rest of us have to suffer as well. This has swung it to a resounding no from me.
     
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  6. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I don't feel like hearing the same excuses over and over again, but did Matt say a word on the subject in the Preview Stream?
     
  7. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Why is it wibble? What you may not care about others will. Some players, myself included, play games for achievements and not having them can lose a sale
     
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  8. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Are you buying the loco or the achievements? I mean ...
     
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  9. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Well you buy the DLC and as a package it has always contained both
     
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  10. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'm buying (or not buying) the loco, the timetables, the scenarios, the new Journey chapters, the substitution opportunities, the trophies, the additional hours of gameplay, some of which may be shaped by those trophies. All of it. Just because you may not care about a certain aspect of that package, don't assume that everyone plays the same. Trophies have been an integral part of console gaming for three generations, so it's something that people will notice and people will miss.
     
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  11. drdavewatford

    drdavewatford Active Member

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    That is a bizarre decision and it will lose you sales; underestimate the importance of Achievements to many XBOX users at your peril.

    No, blame it on DTG. We’ve literally been told by them that they made this decision. It’s nothing to do with XBOX/Microsoft.

    “Only fair”?! Sony have made one crass blunder after another this generation and you think it’s “fair” to punish users of one platform for the incompetence of another platform holder? The two ecosystems are completely separate so there’s literally no good reason to do this.

    Regardless of the reason behind it DTG need a serious rethink as they are unnecessarily damaging their bottom line and the relationship with a part of their customer base.
     
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  12. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    By that logic it's "only fair" to force all XBox users not to be able to carry their save from XBox One to Series consoles, because Sony were too lazy to build a decent backend for handling that. Or "only fair" for publishers not to sell games from prior generations on the XBox store, because the PS5 doesn't have PS3 and PS2 backcompat.
     
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  13. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Or 'only fair' to disable mouse support on PC because Xbox doesn't support it. Or 'only fair' to reduce sales to an absolute minimum because xbox users can have them only once a year because of Microsofts pure evilness...
     
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  14. Boris The Frog

    Boris The Frog Active Member

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    Matt did say a long time ago they wanted everyone to have parity (an equal experience) across all formats.

    Not offering achievements for XBox due to PS limitations is indeed parity.
    So....not offering extra layers to last gen owners due to XB1/PS4 limitations is what then? It ain't parity.

    My argument isn't about maintaining parity (that's a long forgotten word anyway), it's about DTG doing what they've always done by only removing features when it's absolutely necessary to do so. If one can't have it but the other can then so be it, they're the rules that DTG have implemented and the rules that, like it or not, we all have to abide by.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  15. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why I shouldn't admit that, a Train like the 313 (a Train for a Route that I find less interesting) I usually buy to make other Routes feel more alive and the Achivements.
     
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  16. stimp#5938

    stimp#5938 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Really DTG?! That is sad. I mean apparently the achievements were planned for this DLC. Not sure about the authenticity though. Check it out.
    I was looking forward to this dlc. “Moderately” looking forward to it as there are too many achievements that can’t be unlocked right now and too many bugs and problems with trains. What a mess.
     

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  17. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    I don't base my gameplay on achievements but with none to work towards then any locos wouldn't get used so no point buying them. They add nothing to the game other than a loco that subs in on jobs that are already there!
     
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  18. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    My priorities are fine thanks. My priority is spending my money on games and dlc for those games that actually adds something to the game but no achievements means that any loco dlc for this game adds the sum total of a loco! A loco that subs in on jobs that are already there so said loco with no achievements to work towards is pointless!
     
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  19. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    Well apparently the achievements are on the steam release as someone has mentioned unlocking one!
     
  20. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    Convenient that DTG waited till they had started selling the game before telling everyone “tough luck.” That smells of very poor form.
     
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  21. Boris The Frog

    Boris The Frog Active Member

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    Just curious. What happens when all achievements of a specific addon are gained? Does that then make it throwaway?
    Or what of the thousands of other addons from other games that carry no achievements whatsoever? Do they have no worth value?

    Implying a DLC adds "nothing to the game" because a message stating you have completed a specific task isn't present or (as others have hinted) using the absence of achievements as the 'be all and end all' factor when determining whether or not to purchase a particular item just strikes me as being, well, odd - especially when you consider how much 'alternative' creativity can be had in TSW.

    It's almost like saying there's no need in creating the challenge of trying to run a service on schedule in a blizzard or operating a slightly slower train on the same timetable as it's slightly faster counterpart (again, for an added element of challenge) because there's not going to be a congratulatory message attached!

    I don't know, it's almost like the modern batch of gamers have become so self-obsessed with the whole achievements thing that they've forgotten that gaming isn't *just* about stats and gamerscores, it's equally as about enjoying something for what it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
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  22. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I am speaking from my own Experience.

    Achivements help me, especially in TSW, as Long-term Motivation. If I know I will get something, no matter how little, it keeps me on track and it's even more fun. It is precisely this Long-term Motivation that helps me to get to know this Train better, that when I have all the Achivements, I still like to come back and continue playing.

    and on Xbox you can make Money with Achivements, not much and very slowly but Money is Money
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
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  23. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    It's not throwaway, but it gives users a focus and some kind of end goal. Yes there's a challenge to doing bad weather runs or whatever, and having the Journey to give that some kind of structure is great, but once you've completed the Journey, what's going to keep you coming back, working through all the timetable services without a train driver's pay packet at the end of it?

    Do you just move on to the next DLC, maybe the next game, or is there a little glimmer of interest by the trophy sitting there saying, "Hey, you've only run that train for 350 miles, why not round it up to 500?" or "Hey, why not do a few more services in that switcher and see if you can reach level 10". It might be a minor thing, but it's an extra layer of enjoyment, achievement and direction in a game which has no real target or end point.

    The best trophies are the ones that make you explore a little deeper - on some of the earlier DLC, there were huge areas to explore which you barely got near throughout the Journey mode and doing the (often tedious) collectables forced you to explore these yards and see the extra work that had gone into them. Others may encourage you to persevere with a train you otherwise may ignore in favour of something else - "Hey, you've already got all the trophies on that train, why not get some milage in this one?"

    If the 313 and the 377 are both available to drive on a route and I prefer, even by a tiny amount, the 377, then the 313 isn't going to get a lot of use (this is all speculative - I don't have the 313 because, well, we know why). I may even come to realise that of the hundreds of miles I've covered in ECW, the 313 has barely hit double figures. I might then consider that the 313 was a waste of my money. I may then consider that loco DLC in general are a waste of my money. But wait, if there's a trophy for travelling 313 miles in the 313 - well, I might just give it bit more attention. I might travel those 313 miles and discover that actually, I prefer it to 377. I might decide to investigate more DLC...

    You may be a train obsessive who's endlessly wowed by the process of making the same loco move from one place to another again and again and again, but for the more casual gamer, structure is REALLY important. As another example, look at Farm Sim - it's an open world where you buy fields and grow stuff, sell it, buy tractors. The target is just to make a success of things, but once you have a process in place, your farm is bringing in cash and you can afford as much fancy, lime green Claas kit as you can fit in your yard, you're pretty much done (excluding those obsessives who just LOVE tractors)... Except that there's a trophy for breeding sheep; then pigs; then cows; then chickens. There are trophies for cutting down trees; for earning 10 million; all these artificially introduced markers which you would probably argue are worthless, but which give direction, make players try new things, play in a different way and KEEP PLAYING.

    Speaking as someone definitely not in the "modern batch of gamers" (having started out on Commodore 64, then Amiga and still the owner of PS2, 3, 4 and 5), gamers do enjoy things for what they are, and one aspect of that is that they enjoy unlocking progress markers as they progress though a game. Gamers are also spoilt for choice, so if there aren't enough moments of progress acknowledgment, they will naturally look for the next thing. That might not apply to aforementioned train obsessives (which you may or may not be) but don't underestimate the value of the casual gamer in funding the continued development of the very niche product you love to play.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
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  24. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Good points made here
     
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  25. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    That's the same for me! As I said the achievements are something to work for and once the list is done then it depends on the add-on. Some I remove to clear up memory some I carry on with!
     
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  26. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    Like you I'm from the early days of gaming having started with the Amiga then moved onto the C64 and you've summed up my point exactly! Those achievements/trophies are markers to aim for.
     
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  27. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    In essence it depends on the add-on. IOW's achievement list has been finished so that route can be removed to free up some memory. I've also completed the DLGW add-on too but can work towards other achievements using those locos. It's a case of balancing playability with cost and the 313 has very little playability without achievements.
     
  28. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    I’m a Xbox player. I like the achievements, but they’re not why I buy the game. Having said that, they do add a little something to each game, and I think it’s odd, and just something else to add to the list of DTG missteps, when they can’t be bothered to add them. It’s a big list lately.
     
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  29. stimp#5938

    stimp#5938 Well-Known Member

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    I agree here and to me it doesn’t matter wether a DLC has achievements or not. I buy it because I like it. But if DTG has listed achievements it’s kind of annoying when you can’t obtain them because they are locked. It does feel like you can’t “complete” the DLC. It’s like the developer has misplaced a collectible that can’t be reached.
     
  30. Ross NCC1701

    Ross NCC1701 Member

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    OK, here's my take on this. I agree with most of the comments. There are many different types of players, and therefore also many varying priorities regarding achievements. I am myself not an achievement hunter, but I do consider progress markers of some sort important. I like to see how well I am doing compared to others. And I like the thought of a 'target' other than just a completion. It is a great disappointment for me that the 313 DLC does not have any 'target'. I have been 'loyal' and have all the DLCs except the 313.

    But, in the end of the day, it is the added value of a DLC that counts for me. I enjoy TSW2, and I think it's a good simulator. I volunteer on a local Heritage Railway (I lit up the steam loco at 3am last Sunday for the last trips of the season), so trains are special to me. But I also have limited financial resources and $21 (Australian) for a small DLC is a lot of cash. At the current rate of releases, I could be forking out $1000 or more a year on TSW2. Now, if a loco is of special interest to you for some reason, or adds something unique to the experience, or gives you some good 'targets', and you can afford the cash for it, then I'd say go for it regardless of whether there are achievements of not. I will not discuss the so-called reasons for the lack of achievements with the 313 - for me it does not matter whether it's platform parity, game/platform limitations, developer decision, etc. What matters for me is that the 313 DLC has almost no added value. There is no new line, no new stations, no new scenery, no new livery, no Mastery and no achievements. The loco is very similar to others, is still a 3-car EMU and apart from a few differences, drives very much like others. If the DLC were around $10, I would consider buying it. But is is simply not worth $21 for me. If achievements are hard or impossible to add, then why not add some form of Mastery that gives us targets and perhaps extra rolling stock, scenarios, etc. as rewards. In other words, make the DLC more interesting and/or different - or make it cheaper. Or, perhaps better still, spend more time repairing all the bugs
     
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