Serious Train Crash (nr Salisbury)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Mattty May, Oct 31, 2021.

  1. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

  2. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Thankfully no fatalities
     
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  3. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    FBDC94A9-2D67-4C1A-866B-60BB4478BB99.jpeg 1500B2CB-64E6-40C2-8A28-19AF82132E43.jpeg D8986243-E5C6-4B5F-B762-AAE62A805D95.jpeg
    (Not my pictures)
     
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  4. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

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  5. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Heads will roll and fingers of blame will be pointed
     
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  6. Mr heff

    Mr heff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing pictures, i think it's important to share pictures (that aren't graphic) of incidents involving transport as it's all part of reality and we shouldn't shield ourselves from how dangerous vehicles can be. If we don't know the consequences then we may become complacent.
     
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  7. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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  8. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the first incident where the first train derailed, took down all the signalling in the area. The second train therefore got no signal to stop.

    I don’t understand why some sort of failsafe didn’t kick in, but no doubt that will come out in the investigation.

    I hope it wasn’t vandalism that caused the first incident.
     
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  9. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Ah jeez that's bad. Glad everyone made it out safe.
    I agree I really really hope someone wasn't stupid enough to vandalise the track/signals
     
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  10. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

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    Some useful reaction from the excellent Gareth Dennis, putting the slight scaremongering into perspective.
     
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  11. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    One of the drivers has suffered life changing injuries according to a news update this afternoon.
     
  12. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Very sad news. I feel for him / her. Not what you really expect to happen when you go to work even though we all know there is always risk of something like this happening
     
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  13. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Very unfortunate news. Though looking at the cab it’s easy to understand why. Shame the earlier reports weren’t fully accurate.
     
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  14. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    My Thoughts are with all the people and family involved and I wish the driver well.

    Reading an article earlier on a lot of reports are now saying it may have been a signal failure that caused the SWR train to collide with the GWR train which caused it to derail.
     
  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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  16. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was a bit strange because I always thought if a signal fails it will always show a danger aspect and if a signal is out for whatever reason then drivers should take this as a signal at danger and the AWS and TPWS will also treat the signal as a danger aspect.
     
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  17. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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  18. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Must have been quite the wheel slip. Presumably prior to the red there would have been the double yellow/yellow signals slowing the train down. The speed limit was 20mph. But the second train was still going fast enough to wheel slip quite a significant distance - despite impacting the rear of the first train.
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It was ‘wheel slide’ and happened during both the service braking (from before the caution signal prior to the red signal) and the emergency braking (after 12 seconds of normal braking) as the driver was trying to stop the train, and the train hit the side of the other train not the rear. Wheel slide happening isn’t an indication of how fast the train was going as it can occur at any speed, and the train will slide until it gets better adhesion. It was likely that there was next to no adhesion between the rail and train wheels for the slide to occur for so long in this case.

    Wheel slip occurs during acceleration (slow or stationary train, fast spinning wheels), wheel slide occurs during braking (moving train, stationary wheels).
     
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  20. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you can slide for a long while, have a look at this training video from the early 2000s (which has been circulated in light of the low adhesion theory), in response to an incident involving a 170 which slid for about 2 miles.


    158s don't exactly have a track record of being particularly good with adhesion (they were even taken out of service completely one autumn, and were re-introduced as hybrid units, with a Class 156 car). I believe they still are only disk braked, which is a nightmare for this sort of stuff, whereas more modern trains use a combination of tread and disk brakes IIRC.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  21. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    I still expect that newspapers and late running passengers will scoff at "Leaves on the line". This shows how little adhesion trains actually have with the track in poor conditions. Even in the best of conditions the contact patch is minimal.
     
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  22. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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  23. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Line Speed drops from 90 to 50 for the trains coming from London - so the 159 would have been carrying some speed on approach.

    Also on the SW there was a near miss where a 450 slid through two stations after hitting a mix of ice and leaf mulch - it came within about 150m of a 455 that was in front and was still doing some speed at the time
     
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  24. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Bloody hell. I didn’t realise it could be that bad.
     
  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I was sent a video today of what I think was a 66 or similar trying to pull it out. As they sat throttling it up there must have been a hell of a lot of resistance.
    This is the rails afterwards where the train was trying to pull it out. It's melted them with the friction I guess

    I don't know the photographer for this so cannot credit unfortunately 78AF3EA2-61C9-415B-BD86-3534B786A9CF.jpeg
     
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  26. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    It was a 59, the predecessor to the 66 first built in the 80s for Yeoman. It certainly was struggling but I'm surprised as how bad that is.
     
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  27. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    The video mentioned in the above posts. It doesn't seem a very safety conscious way of going about it. Quite impressive to watch though.

    (Slight language warning)
     
  28. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Fun to watch, but that can’t be an authorised way of doing stuff.
     
  29. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    It does seem rather haphazard. Piece of "rope", not taking up the slack 1st, standing close to said rope. Tricky place to get equipment into I suppose, what with it being in a cutting without much access, so they had to try a bit of improvisation.

    Here's some more views.


    It shows how wedged in the 158/9s were. I believe they have got them out now.
     
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  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah on Friday they got the cranes in, which i think is what they should've done in the first place.
     
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  31. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it was. That doesn't look to be in the same place. I'm not even sure that's in the UK, the track and sleepers look different.
     
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  32. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, now I'm lookign at it again I'm inclined to agree there.

    It's the sleeper clips.
     
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  33. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    You've got me questioning it too. I was sent it by my dad who has friends on the railway. I'm questioning it. HMMMMM

    I may have been Fake News'd by them
     
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  34. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I‘ve got no clue about UK railways, but those plates and spikes look distinctly American to me.
     
  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If that line had parted, there would have been four orange-clad half-workers there.

    WTF didn't they first use a dozer to free the wreck?
     
  36. lord everything

    lord everything Well-Known Member

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    There was also an incident when a 375 slid 2 miles in 2010 near stonegate I think
     
  37. lord everything

    lord everything Well-Known Member

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    And there was that incident at Chalfont and Latimer where a Chiltern train came within 30m of a met line train at the station.
     
  38. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Although that was unrelated to adhesion, and instead was complete driver error.
     

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