I am not sure if this is a bug or if im doing something wrong but I'm having troubles with the sd70ace when it comes to braking the second issue im having is effective braking I was in a 1.5% incline and full dynamics wouldnt control speed so i then tried full application of automatic brake and it wouldnt even slow the train down it just kept speeding up i had to use emergency brake to stop Idk if its a bug or me doing something wrong i assume I'm doing it wrong just wonder if anyone else is in the same situation
I've had to use the emergency brakes twice on every service in this loco I have tried, when going downhill at the 1.5 gradient. It seems to be the only thing capable of reducing speed at all there. They didn't stop me, but were enough to reduce my speed to around 35mph before the pressure got back up.
I have had no trouble braking apart from my own lack of anticipation adding auto brakes when the dynamics are not sufficient. The delay is understandably significant, so I guess with these long trains you have to think at least a mile ahead.
I had full application of all brakes for 30 minutes from around the point more than 50% of the train was past the summit, and it kept accelerating, so there's definitely more to getting braking right there than just basic expectations of physics.
So, after several trial and error attempts with save states, I think the trick to the really tough part is probably to abandon the dynamic brakes approaching the granite quarry, since acceleration from this point on is too much for them to handle, get speed down to around 35mph by the time you reach the quarry, and apply full automatic brakes. From here the train will continue accelerating by around 1mph every half a minute, rather than every 5 seconds or so as it does with the dynamic brake at full. This *should* ideally be enough to keep under the speed limit, without applying the emergency brake, though I've not made it all the way to the bottom yet, and am still accelerating, so will let you know. *Edit* so it seems to be working aside from briefly going over the speed limit at the point between where it goes from 45 to 55mph. I think the main issue is you get so comfortable with the dynamic brake prior to this point, that you're not expecting to suddenly hit a gradient it can't cope with, it's something you need to be expecting quite a way ahead, and know to reduce speed in anticipation of and switch brakes for, since without knowing it's coming, by the time you see the train starting to accelerate, and notice the gradient, it's already out of control.
`+So one thing i'm seeing people do a lot (and I have a tendency to do so also) is to get started the moment the brakes are off on the train - there is a fundamental flaw with this plan because it means you won't have brakes available as expected still for a while, even though the brakes are off - until the BP is up to 90 across the entire train they won't apply the way you expect (aka - they wont apply). This is particularly so when you're starting one of the mid-way runs at Hermosa - because you're rolling right into a gradient without full access to your brakes. You may well find only some of your train is actually contributing brakes because of how the BP was at that moment when you applied them. If you're approaching a gradient, or you are starting on one - be sure that your train is showing fully pumped up on the brake pipe 89-90 psi before you engage the auto brakes. Don't move until they're charged if it's at the start, or if you're approaching summit then back off on the speed and give the system more time to charge the brakes. A couple of times i've started my train with the rear showing barely 65psi - it's allowed the brakes to release and i've got moving - but it's important to know that at 65psi on the rear of the train, the rear of the train has essentially zero ability to help with brakes, because the way the system works there's just not enough pressure to do anything useful, things START becoming useful at 65psi. It's not just about getting the brakes off, it's having brakes that can then be used later when you need them. If you're starting at Cheyenne or Laramie you could take that chance because you're going up hill and *probably* wont have any real need for the train brake if you're careful and manage speed so that if you come across an adverse signal you can stop via dynamics and then loco brake (though this is inherently a bad idea anyway), as long as you have a full 90psi to bring to force when you need it at the summit you might be ok. To be completely safe, fully charge before setting off. Also - don't apply/release/apply/release on the brakes, it takes a moment to spend the pressure, and several minutes to save it back up again and you can quickly get your train back down to that 65psi problem area if you're not careful.
My bp was always at 90 getting to that point, as yeah, I make sure on basically every route to see that they're charged propr to applying th I'd not been using them at all on the hour long uphill stretch from Laramie, since all the shallow descents prior to this sharp drop are all handled quite nicely by a low dynamic brake setting, but yeah, as I discovered, the key is to start decelerating a good distance before the 1.5 begins (Almost like a driver needing to learn a route they're going to be driving in advance, so they know what to expect finding a recognisable landmark that reminds you when to start doing certain things), enough to get to below 30mph or so, at which point full application of the brakes is just about enough to keep the train's continuous acceleration due to gravity from the quarry onward from going above the speed limit all the way to Cheyenne. I will say, it is fun having runs like this one where the throttle never strays from idle from a certain point onwards, and it's all about managing speed with braking the rest of the way.
Questions to TrainSim-Matt Why we start services with 0PSI brake pipe pressure which is equal to EMERGENCY? I would expect starting condition at 63PSI which is equal to FULL SERVICE. On SPG (SD40-2) is one advice for quicker brake charging (Reverser-NEUTRAL/Throttle-NOTCH1), can this help on SD70ACe?
Yeah but if i apply the fully charged Autobrake after a few seconds of braking in full brake mode the brakes release them vom 64 psi to 44 which isn´t enough power to brake. THe only thing to help is an Emergency stop to stop the Train..
Sometimes the rear indicator doesent charge up either after start and setting all up. if i liad another service the rear fills up for sudden. mostly the ones with Ethanol wont charge the rear
Thanks for the response matt I did feel I was doing something wrong lol I'll take your advice and hopefully have more success i love the Challenges this route add to make driving more difficult makes me want to get better
I've legit never managed to get any of the larger trains moving at all here until a while after the brakes are already charged, even if I begin applying the throttle as soon as I've finished the initial setup, so I apply power right away and then deal with the brakes, and go and make a pot of tea, and find my speed inching up to 1mph and the brakes at 90 by the time I get back.
Hmm for I turn on Dynamic breaks up to 7 or 8 and it slows it down but the real big problem I have is the automatic breaks why does it take so long to stop even with a light loco no other locomotive in this game has functioned like that till now it’s weird tbh
Wel for the SD70ACe you wanna take off the breaks the wait for the breaks to release on very car it takes a minute because of how long the train is at the same time putting it in notch 3 it should move slow at first for 14 seconds then your start to gain speed however on hills it’s more tricky you wanna use the sand and notch 4 or 3 maybe even 5 to get going it’s not impossible but it’s a pain in the ass plus the bell doesn’t work at all or it does but you can’t turn it off makes no sense hopefully an update will come along to fix this other than that it’s a pretty fun route
The bell jamming on is a nuisance, yeah. So far notch 3 has been my default go-to for starting the trains here. Start on anything higher and the wheelslip is a mess, even if you sand. I just let it take its time, as I said, usually going to grab a drink or snack, and once it gets to around 0.7mph, I bump it up to 4, and it'll start picking up speed. It needed a little extra nudging the other day, but I assume that was due to me setting it to snowy weather to match the blizzard raging outside my flat at the time. But yeah, until the brakes have fully released I don't expect these trains to go anywhere, and have so far seen zero indication otherwise, no matter how soon I apply power. There's no way to get the train to even think about starting to move before that figure hits 90, so I can't imagine not having enough pressure to use them being a problem as Matt suggested, since I can't see a way to have the train begin moving at all while they're still at less than 65..
Yeah it’s a weird one this time around I feel like the breaks take so long to release then trying to slow down at speed takes year for the pressure to build up at all by the time it does I would’ve either crashed into the dead end or missed my stop point smh even rn as I’m playing I’m going 70mph down this hill I’ve had the auto breaks at full for 2 minutes now and going down a 1.5slope I’m still gaining speed some how Ik trains here in America don’t function like this who designed this is annoying tf out of me right now
US train brakes need careful understanding of the implications of the long train and how that impacts the way they work. If you get going with anything less than 90psi on the rear of the train, you're already at a loss with potentially no brakes available on part of the train. If you apply/release the brakes to manage your speed, you'll rapidly get to a point that they no longer have any impact at all even if the numbers indicate they should - all you can see on the cab is what your own loco is doing, not what the other 100 vehicles in the train are doing. Dynamics become less efficient over about 30mph, so if you're accelerating over 30mph you need to compensate with MORE air - and if you're struggling with air already that's a recipe for a runaway. I just did a stream from Laramie to Cheyenne, full run, no problems, feel free to watch and see if it helps you understand anything that helps you. It was on the official youtube/twitch channels. I managed to get it at one point to JUST beyond the 32 or so mph where the dynamics became less effective and suddenly lost the ability to slow the train using the dynamics - needing to pump the air brakes a little more to compensate and then adjust dynamics to re-balance. Princess Entrapta - just go with 1 or 2 notches of power tbh, if you're on level ground once the brakes are off it's more than enough to get things moving and then you can dial the power up. More than that and you risk slip as you suggest, but you could also be dragging the brakes. Also - don't forget to enable banking comm so you have the benefit of the pushing-power. Happy to answer any questions if you get stuck - but yes, this IS working realistically, and yes this IS difficult to master. Matt.
Yeah I agree the brake working realistically. and this is in train simulator not a train game. It's hard to be a train driver in the America with there long and heavy trains. and this simulator tries to emulate it as far as possible. But one thing Dovetail should consider. In Run8 they have a button so you can charge the whole train with 90 psi at once. then it becomes optional if you want to wait and be realistic or press the button and go at once.
It'll move ok, just have two extra bits of heavy dead weight at the back - so you might find a problem on the grades, but to get going in the first place? I wouldnt expect a problem
I remember the nightmare of trying to move a train on SPG before I learned the two rear ones were improperly configured at the start of the service and needed manual correction prior to setting off. Barely got above like 8mph out of cumberland, then hit a grade that was simply impossible.
This is probably the biggest issue on that downhill gradient where the speed limit is 45-55 so a lot of folks will probably be going faster than that at that point. Meaning once you hit the steep bit and pick up speed, there's not a chance of the dynamics holding you back. Even the air brakes, (which you are 100% guaranteed never to have used up to that point as the dynamics can handle everything prior to this just fine), have a hard time preventing acceleration from taking you over 60 if you're going above 35 when you get that far. It's definitely one of those things of needing to learn the route and its individual quirks, and remembering that speed limits are a maximum and can be VASTLY over what's sensible to drive at.
Yes the track speed is what's sensible at most for the route - but what's sensible for your train, is for you as the engineer to be aware of and adhere to.
I appreciate you for replying but yes it’s a definitely a learning curve for this route this time around but ty I’ll definitely check out the stream and honestly for me the dynamics breaks work just fine for me around 50Mph going down 1.5 slope however is a different story I need practice with that
There's your problem- going so fast that you had to brake "down to" 35! Your speed on those descents with a heavy train should be about 30, and don't ever let it get above 35, or you're courting a runaway. Speed limits are limits, not targets. (If you think that's slow, elsewhere I've linked a NS training video on descending Saluda Mountain, which they take at 8 mph!)
Yeah, the trouble is the first time you hit that point, on your first service on the route, you've been coasting along at 30 with the dynamics nicely controlling everything, and then suddenly you begin accelerating super fast, more than they can keep up with, which throws you off initially.
