My Thoughts On Sherman Hill, Would Like Feedback From Dtg And Other Users.

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by StratPlayer62, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I went ahead and bought this route as it is an area I really enjoy and I'm familiar with it as I've actually been there.

    Things I like,

    Great job on finally being able to implement longer trains, really nice to have something more prototypical.

    Great job on the improved physics, it actually feels like things are starting to approach realism.

    Overall the scenery looks great, really makes the drive enjoyable, and in many places I can actually begin to feel like I'm there. I REALLY enjoy driving a route that I've physically been to and can identify locations.

    I really like the modeling of the locomotives, nice job.

    When doing some switching in Laramie I heard a siren from a vehicle, nice touch!

    Overall I think the sounds are good, especially with the limitations DTG had to work with. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but again overall I'm happy. Especially the horns!

    So far I've done 2 timetable services, one scenario, and the training modules. I'm now going to list the problems I've found. Please note I'm listing these as constructive criticism, and I must admit, I'm overall disappointed with the amount of obvious bugs, errors, and what seems to be either a total lack of caring about the quality of the product, and/or management that is placing unrealistic deadlines on the development team, or possibly a combination of both. This thread is not intended to bash DTG, I really do want them to succeed, but something needs to change in their business model. Again this is coming from the perspective of a customer on the outside. I'm not saying I know what is happening inside the company, it is just the impression I get from the level of quality of the product. I'm not asking for perfection, and I know the product will never be perfect, however if the areas that need improvement are not pointed out, they will never be improved. DTG have stated in a recent stream that they want to hear feedback good and bad, so here it is. If I'm wrong about any of these, or if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know!

    1. Draw distance of the track, the train, other trains, large structures, is dismal. Seeing the track appear in front of you, not being able to see your entire train behind you, or seeing other trains just pop into view really ruins the experience. I realize there are limitations to the draw distance, and I'll freely admit, I'm not a programmer so I don't understand all of the challenges. But if there is some way to have these items appear on screen, even at a much lower resolution at a greater distance it would go a LONG way towards improving the experience.

    2. When coupling up to cars with the SD40 I often experience the PCS valve opening. I know this can happen in real life if the angle LOVE is opened to quickly, perhaps something similar is happening in the game?

    3. Daytime scenery from the in cab view looks washed out, when outside the cab everything looks fine. I've noticed several others mentioning the same thing.

    4. Night looks AWFUL, just plain AWFUL. The landscape is WAY to bright, and there is no transition from the sky to the ground. I realize there are a lot of lighting problems that need to be sorted out but from all of the TSW routes I own the night time view is by far the worst on this route. Another thing that bugs me about night times views is that when you are near bright lights such as a train headlight, cab lights, street lights etc., you are ONLY going to see the brighter stars, not a star filled sky. To me that really ruins the realism.

    5. Where is the HOT (head of train) device for the SD40? How are we supposed to know when the brake pipe has been charged etc. without this?

    6. Horn button on the RailDriver only works when pushed on the SD40, it will not activate the horn when pulled. It works properly with the SD70.

    7. I can't always get the alerter to reset with the alerter button on the RailDriver with the SD70, it will maybe work 1 out of 5 times for me.

    8. Where is the overhead crane in Laramie Yard? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall seeing it anywhere. Pretty sure I remember it being in the TS1 version, very prominent part of Laramie yard, seems like it should be there.


    9. Displayed rail equipment next to the tracks is missing in Laramie. I realize this doesn't affect gameplay at all, but I was disappointed that it wasn't modeled, looks like there is some type of concrete block building with no roof located where this equipment should be. My son and I spent time looking at this equipment when we were in Laramie, I was hoping that it would have been modeled in the game.
    [​IMG]

    10. This one is pretty major IMO, when using the dynamic brakes in the SD40 the amp gauge goes the wrong direction.

    11. The airflow meter in both the SD70 and the SD40 do not seems to be working properly. In reality this is essential to properly operating a locomotive.

    12. In a stream Matt mentioned that the stop locations had been improved. At the end of one service that I did I made a stop 19 yards in front of a red signal, I had to release the brakes and pull up so close to the signal I couldn't even see it to end the scenario. VERY unrealistic to how US engineers would actually come to a stop in front of a red signal.

    13. The lights shining down on the locomotive trucks visible in daylight is annoying, it just doesn't look right. I believe these lights are actually there so the crew can look at the ground to see if the train is moving at night.

    14. I've noticed there is no conductor in the seat at times? Was that changed?

    15. It appears there is a bug with the dynamic brakes on the SD70. I realize that if you don't bail off the independent brake dynamic brakes shut down. However I could not get the dynamic brakes to work at all on a particular service. Sorry I forget the name of the service but it was one hauling all refrigerated box cars. I checked to make sure the dynamic brakes circuit breaker was on, it was. I made sure the dynamic brakes were cut in, they were. I bailed off multiple times but the dynamic brakes never actually applied any braking force, the effort meter just stayed at 0, and there was never any slowing of the train. On the first SD70 service I did the dynamic brakes worked perfectly for me so I really don't think it was how I was operating the locomotive, the same procedure did not work the next time. I will try to see if I can replicate this problem and provide more info.

    16. The driver height in the SD70 does need to be lowered, but IMO only a small amount.

    17. The Granite Quarry, it needs to be improved. At the state it is in, I almost think it should have been left out, it looks bad.

    18. I don't think the accelerometer on the SD70 info screen is working properly, it seems to show figures that do not make sense to what the train is actually doing.

    19. And no list about Sherman Hill would be complete without another request for the rest of Track 3!!! :)

    I really hope DTG will make the time to work on these problems along with others that have been mentioned. I'll be honest, if this wasn't a route that I REALLY enjoy driving I would have asked for a refund before the 2 hour limit was up.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  2. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    So it seems my post was censored, the word I used for angle **** was replaced with LOVE. Perhaps I should have used angle "valve" but that isn't the correct term for the device.
     
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  3. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That‘s exactly what‘s happening in the game since the brake pipes are automatically connected the second you couple. Only way around is to disable safety devices while switching.
    This is being worked on.
     
  4. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Ah!! Methinks you've fallen afoul of the dreaded homophone police. They roam the forums looking for innocent victims. :D
     
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  5. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    9. What in the world is that thing on the left?

    11. I think Matt was talking about this when he said in the stream that it wasn't working right so it was disabled for now rather than be wrong.

    12. Matt was surprised himself when he ran into this today and will be bringing it up.
     
  6. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    9. That is a snowplow.

    11. I agree I'd rather not have it working that wrong, but I hope it is addressed and not just left as is.

    12. Glad to hear.
     
  7. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, duh, seems obvious now.
     
  8. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    Make sure your reverser lever is in Forward position in order to apply dyn brake. Also check the 3 switches for Fuel Pump, Generator Field and the Engine Run above the headlight knob, make sure the 3 switches are in ON position.
     
  9. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    They were all in the proper location, but thanks for the reminder. Power would apply as normal, dynamic braking had no effect, even with the ind brake bailed off.
     
  10. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Re. 15: How fast you were going? Matt stressed in today's streams that 30 mph is the sweet spot, and faster especially gives diminishing returns.
     
  11. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Around 40. Regardless the tractive effort indicator should show some braking force regardless of speed as long as you are going above 10MPH, it was at 0.
     
  12. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    Are you double check the brake cylinder gauge of the engine? It must show around 0.2/0.3 reading. If the BC gauge shows more than that, the dynamic brake surely would cut-off automatically.
     
  13. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the brake cylinder was around .2-.4
     
  14. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Route is really impressive, best part is area where Track3 divert.
    Magnet for trouble is great scenario, but I notice that in scenatios your speed limit use passenger setting.
    Magnet for trouble have middle DPU in consist and it work the same as rear one!
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    So far, I've only driven one scenario and one session, mostly because I find myself having to constantly re-run the tutorials. I'm going to put together a well-illustrated static version of the two locomotive tutorials that I will run on my second monitor while driving the scenarios and sessions.
     
  16. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Shame that there don‘t seem to be any in the timetable.
     
  17. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Where would middle DPU be in consists like these? the middle? or nearer the front/back ?
     
  18. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Near the back. It's on PC-Steam
    Consist is 2xSD70>45xCARS>SD70>10xCARS>SD70
    Someone can try to create consist with exact middle possiton on free roam scenario (I'm bussy for two weeks).
    Hope that savegames works, because full run is over my daily free time limit...
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  19. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Matt, depends on the RR. I have not seen many cams of the UP but CSX can be 1/3 back or 2/3 back. On BNSF you see them a lot mid train, but that is because their way of doing long trains is to combine 2 trains at a terminal then separate them later so the power for the trailing train is attached to the back of the lead train so it's easier to separate them later.
     
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  20. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the train. Some would be cut in roughly around the middle of the train with rear DPUs. Other times, they are cut in about 3/4th to near the rear of the train with no rear DPUs.

    I've seen UP manifests to or from Tehachapi with as much as 3 mid train DPUs cut in near the rear of the train.

    You could also check Virtual Railfans Laramie livestream camera (Which is free this week) to see if any UP trains have any mid train DPUs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the UP trains running through my neighborhood will have 2 or 3 MPU's on the head and a DPU a third or a quarter from the end car. Sometimes there'll be a single unit at the rear of the train. It would be very unusual to see a 100+ car train without mid- consist DPU's.
     
  22. Andrew Beeman

    Andrew Beeman Member

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    As someone who works mountainous territory on a small railroad right off the UP main, Mid DPUs are typically added right in between the train, I live in the Blue Mountains of Oregon in La Grande which is a very busy UP terminal out here. (Huntington Subdivision)

    Most of the time, trains coming into Nampa ID will be put together with a couple units mid consisted to meet HPT requirements to climb the grades leading up though La Grande and beyond into Pendleton to Hinkle, eventually these trains go to Spokane WA where BN and UP connect, and will be sorted out east west, UP terminates in Portland afterwards as BN runs East across the panhandle of Idaho

    Theres one particular grain train that comes though that is actually two trains put together, I have seen as many as 7 units on the head end, 5 mid DPUs and a couple rear DPUs, just so the loaded train meets HPT, once it reaches flatter land and moves to another subdivision, locomotives will be removed or placed offline as necessary.

    Out in the mountainous territorys, couplers are put through extreme stress and Mid DPUs are put in line to help alleviate coupler stress and train forces loading forces on curves (too long of a train around a sharp curve moving up a grade can cause train cars to string line the curve, basically, the train tries to stretch itself straight) Couplers and draft gear (Ive even seen cars) be ripped in half from the insane forces they can be exerted to.

    Here is a link to the UP System Special Instructions

    Important Items
    4- Defines a locomotive and its available HPT
    5- Shows instructions for train makeup and car placement
    8- defines special instructions for train makeup and rules operating on mountainous grades

    https://www.up.com/ert/ssi.pdf
     
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  23. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    2 small things to add with the SD40-2 and the SD70ACe in snowy conditions, but they don't accumulate snow on them when compared to other units.

    SH SD70ACe compared to Skyhooks AC4400CW
    761acdd1-8da2-4dfe-90de-298ee37c5fa7.jpg

    SH SD40-2 compared to OSD GP38-2
    20211129183643_1.jpg
     
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  24. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Well-Known Member

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    LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    Prototypical?
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. bluetiger#2496

    bluetiger#2496 Member

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    There are a lot of hovering buildings and hovering parked trucks on this route as well.
     
  26. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    So I ran the Magnet scenario today, really enjoyed it, brought back memories of the original. This is the first scenario that I've run on Sherman Hill where the sun sets during the trip and I have to say to me the lighting as the sun starts to set is just fantastic. The shadows with the angled light along with the sky colors look great, and actually needing to use the sun visor to block the sun at times really helps with realism, might sound silly but it is the little things like this that really help.

    However I did find some problems that need to be addressed,

    From what I can tell the on screen display uses passenger speed limits instead of freight for the entire trip.

    The stopping distance at the end of the scenario is REALLY close to the switches towards the end of the yard which is not realistic.

    I also noticed that the engine RPM sound would change from time to time without an adjustment of the throttle position, I've never noticed this before, I did just do the recent update before running this.

    I noticed 2 road crossings that are missing the part the car would drive on, one is just south of Laramie on track 3, the other is at the cement plant on track 3 south of Laramie, there are 2 crossings, the south crossing is the one missing.

    Also I came across 2 or 3 whistle boards that had no crossings after them, I started blowing the horn for no reason. I failed to make note of the location however. Anyone else noticed this?

    I've yet to really hear back from DTG on any of my feedback. In particular I'd like to know if what I've reported has been logged or do I need to submit tickets for each of these problems? I would like to see them logged so they can be corrected.

    Thanks!
     

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