Proper Implementation Of Basic Uk Signalling Principles.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by vc927, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. vc927

    vc927 New Member

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    Setting the scene:
    London Commuter. Quarry Line Quandary. Approaching Redhill with restrictive aspects due to following another train. That train goes into the Redhill platform loop and the player train signals step up to green. Accelerating through the centre line at Redhill up to 70 mph and on towards Earslwood. Then round a gentle curve 200 yards ahead a green signal with position 1 route indicator and a 30 mph divergence with absolutely no prior warning via the signalling system! Earlier in the same scenario, a 70mph divergence at Stoats Nest, with no prior warning from the signalling system. No flashing aspects approaching Stoats Nest, no approach control at Earlswood. Come on guys, really?

    The default UK signalling implementation in Railworks/Train Simulator was pretty poor but at least there was an API and lua scripting support so that those who cared about such things could fix it. Imo TSW2 is so much better in so many ways than RW/TS but the UK signalling implementation is if anything worse, and no API that I am aware of. Why does it appear to be consistently beyond you to implement the correct UK signalling principles? It is definitely doable as I did it using lua scripts for RW/TS. Frankly it ruins the entire experience for me. If you don't understand what is required then there are plenty of people about who can help, me for starters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  2. 2martens

    2martens Well-Known Member

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    That's indeed annoying that not all speed restrictions in UK routes are announced via trackside signals. This means I have to use the HUD to know for sure what speed is allowed. Travelling without HUD is much easier on German routes.
     
  3. vc927

    vc927 New Member

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    Sometimes even the HUD doesn't help though. Say you have a change of speed limit on the main route which happens a short distance before a 30mph divergence then you are reliant on the signals to know that you will be taking the 30mph divergence and TSW doesn't implement the correct UK signal sequence for this. This is the case in the first example I gave above where even with the HUD you only get 400 yards warning of the reduction to 30 mph. As I said if they gave us an API and scripting like before then we could fix it but now we have the worst of both worlds in that it is wrong and there is nothing we can do about it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is no speed associated with UK signalling, other than what the driver's own experience and training tells him. However I agree that in addition to proper approach release or approach control, the HUD needs to show more than one upcoming speed limit if the braking distance between the first and second is insufficient to slow down. However it's not just the UK routes that suffer. I was doing the ACS64 trip on Boston earlier and had a reduction to 60 MPH which immediately dropped me onto a 30 MPH crossover, no warning. Yes I was running without the ATC/ACSES operational but that's because it is not properly functional.
     
  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The HUD does actually show upcoming speed limit changes beyond the very next one. The following speed limit will come up briefly before reverting to the next speed limit ahead. Of course, you need to be keeping a close eye on the speed limit notification in the top right to notice this happening and it is no substitute for the correct signalling of diverging routes.
     
  6. vc927

    vc927 New Member

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    Indeed. I agree there is no direct linking of speed to UK signalling however the aspect sequence approaching a divergence is designed to either advise the driver of the divergence through flashing aspects, PRI or split distants, or to force a reduction in speed through approach control and thus restrictive signal aspects on the approach. The TSW GW Paddington to Reading route appears to have PRIs and split distants in a couple of places but the far more common flashing aspects and approach control appears totally absent from other routes where it exists on the prototype. As you say, at the very least the HUD should give advance warning of a reduction in speed in sufficient time. It would be better though if the signalling were done properly.
     
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