Save Bug Frustration At Dtg

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Sharon E, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    We all know that this bug exists and has since the beginning of TSW. The increasing frustration that I am feeling comes from the fact that DTG has remained silent on it. An acknowledgement of "it exists" and maybe letting the TSW2 public know that 1. it is there and we can't fix it or 2. it is there, and we just don't think is important enough to bother with.
    It has bitten all of us at one point and SH is really reinforcing this when on east bound runs you are trying to learn proper train handling techniques on that 1.5% east bound grade. If what you try doesn't work you have to restart the service from the beginning instead of when going up the second 0.8% before the summit. Depending on which service you are doing this can be over 30 minutes of driving to get back to that point.

    PLEASE DTG at least admit you are aware of this and what you are or are not doing about it.

    Thanks

    A frustrated player
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  2. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it's pretty odd that such an issue continues to exist after such a while. It's a fundamental part of any game (from almost any era) to be able to save. Aside from it being a regular thing, it should especially be looked at in such a game where we have journeys that can be upto 2 hours long. Sucks hard almost being done such a run, and then having to tend to some irl stuff immediately, knowing that you'll have to start all over again.
     
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  3. graham.haddon

    graham.haddon Well-Known Member

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    They are very much aware of it. Even referring to it in a semi joking manner in some streams.
     
  4. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Semi Joking says that they don't care about it and how it effects the way we play this sim.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Matt has commented a couple of times when I have mentioned it.

    One thing I have observed, it seems to occur less frequently when using Journey Mode.
     
  6. Ps4Player

    Ps4Player Well-Known Member

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  7. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    OldVern, my experience is that it occurs equally in both Journey and timetable modes.
     
  8. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was obviously just lucky then.

    It's certainly something that needs to be sorted before they contemplate longer routes. More than one save slot would be nice too, in fact I'm at a loss to understand how that got past the initial R&D brainstorming when TSW was first conceived.
     
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  9. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. I don't even try to save anymore.

    I suspect it might be unfixable based on their reluctance to talk about it.
     
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  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I think when doing longer routes, they may just split services in two - that's what I'd be tempted to do at least.
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Frankly I don't see how that would be funny. It's stupid that this issue hasn't been fixed at all. There is no explanation either as to why that has been the case. It's a common standard in the video game industry to be able to save your progress. If there was a proper save functionality in the game then long journeys don't have to be completed in one go. This is good for those who may not have the time to spend two hours on a freight service if they have things to do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
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  12. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    There are many things I admire about DTG and the technical team that builds the routes and trains we enjoy, but this ostrich head-in-the-sand attitude isn't just frustrating, it's seething and disrespectful. It's even more galling that there isn't a single thing we can do about it. They will read this thread and, more than likely, remain as silent as Easter Island statues on the topic. Of course, talking about it sometimes doesn't fare much better - how many times on a stream have we heard '"We'll add it to the list" or "We've made a note of that" and then it fades into history.

    A save game bug that's been there since at least close to the beginning of TSW and has never been fixed. I'd be mortified if that was my name in the credits. That's almost as bad as people having difficulty staying logged in to your online account in game. Oh, wait...

    And I'm not, generally, a cynical person and enjoy the game overall. At the end of the day, though, people will play this game until the enjoyment is overtaken by the frustration from this death by a thousands unfixed cuts.
     
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  13. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    When did they joke about it? Must've missed that stream.
     
  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There are a few that don't albeit usually combat games such as GTA or Deus Ex, in the case of the latter certainly not while in combat. ISTR the X3 space games you had to buy "salvage insurance" to save the game when not docked at a station and then there is Elite Dangerous, if you auger in at Beagle Point 65K LY from the "Bubble" you lose weeks of progress and have to "rebuy" your ship at the space station where you were last docked.

    However most contemporary games do allow unlimited saving and have a quick save feature to do so. Certainly a simulation title like TSW2 should support this and of course the save should be reliable, too.
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    GTA definitely allows saves.
     
  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You can save your game in gta though. GTA 4 and 5 are games for example in which you can save manually
     
  17. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I've been using save on recent routes - seems to work fine these days on the modern routes Sharon E - are you still having issues with anything from Dresden-Riesa onwards?
     
  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was probably thinking of San Andreas where you could only save at a safe house, apart from a couple of later missions which had a checkpoint.
     
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  19. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Savegame bugs are the sole reason why I didn't buy Sherman Hill. While I do enjoy long and heavy freight trains, having to plan my time around the lengthy runs on these kind of routes has become really a chore. I barely play Sand Patch and Clinchfield anymore, because I don't have the time to run the whole track in a single sitting.

    In fact, I'm finding myself playing TS1 a lot more. Sure, there savegame is quite janky there aswell, but very rarely is the resumed savegame unplayable (especially on a simple A->B service). Yes, some locos need a reset to neutral, yes saving german trains over 40Kph is a gamble becaue of PZB and yes the signaling sometimes needs a yank with the tab button, but these are the limitations I can work around and live with.

    Having the AI frozen on tasks, and routing totally messed up, resulting in red signals is something I cannot work around. I don't understand how these issues don't have higher priority. As for me, and I guess for a lot of other players also, these are on the same level as broken scenarios, as I just cannot play the game with them around.
     
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  20. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The silence is deafening.
     
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  21. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I do not play the German routes but the save bug is definitely present in the Rush Hour routes that I have played. I have not tried saving in SH but just may to see what happens.
     
  22. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Atleast one of the issues is a core dispatcher issue, and affects all route. Looks like the dispatching information is not saved (or it is not correctly restored), so after restore the game tries to redispatch all active trains, and adjust signals according to this dispatching, and this is where everything gets broken.

    If you have situation like this:
    -----A------/==B=====
    Train A is entering from a single track onto double track, has route build, and has a green signal. Train B is departing in the opposite direction, waiting for train A, and has a red light.

    After restore the system looks at trian priorities, and if train B has higher priority it will build route (set the junction), for that train. Here is where it gets deadlocked. Because the next block is occupied, with train A, train B has red signal. But becasue the junction is set for train B, train A also has red signal.

    The easiest way to replicate this is imho on West somerset railway, as its basically a single track route, with double track stations, where the trains pass each other. If you save while you're in a station, waiting for a AI to arrive in the opposite direction, it will result in the deadlock, as the player is the train B, and has higher priority.

    So everytime you use a savegame, you're playing russian roulete with all the trains on the route, and if any of them are in that configuration, that junction gets locked.

    I've also reported this via the DTG reporting tool, with affected savegame, and the recommendation I got, is to do not use savegame if I know it breaks the scenario.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I assume they probably read the thread but will probably get the same answer as always. Were looking into it, we will put it on the list. Then there won't be a fix for another 5 years
     
  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is present on Brighton Mainline. Restoring a save on that route fries the dispatcher and all the AI trains are locked into a traffic jam, leaving you with unpassable perma-reds.
     
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  25. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    The dispatcher issue with saving games could very well be the core of the problem, but, none the less, it screws the game at that point.
     
  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's one of two issues. The other one is that cab setup tends to default back to start condition, in any non-driving cab (and sometimes the driving cab too!). This is particularly egregious in situations where the service calls for you to change cabs, but can also really screw up the trailing units on Sand Patch.
     
  27. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've run into this problem on BML.

    The other thing that happens sometimes on several routes is that on resuming I've lost part or all of the HUD, most often the destination and mileage section. I can still drive but I have no timetable and the service will not complete.

    The maddening thing is that the save function is so darned unpredictable.
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The G6 has highlighted this particular issue. You absolutely need to stop to save, even if in the middle of a main line run section.
     
  29. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    It's weird, we can't hear DTD on this problem ....
     
  30. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    The reason why there isn't much reaction from DTG on this matter is quite simple.
    It's not a problem on their side to address, it's the player's fault.

    We simply need to get good and stop saving.
     
  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    While I know the above is written in jest, ironically there may be an element of truth in at least that external factors may be at play.

    Mentioned earlier that MSFS (the new one) has difficulty sometimes restoring the state of the FMC and cockpit mid flight. Come to think of it, last couple of times I tried a flight in the old FSX using the Level D 767 same thing happened. Flight reloaded with the FMC blank. The one factor at play here is Windows 10, it did not do this under Windows 7. Perhaps something changed on the O/S side, maybe permissions or some other factor that prevents or needs to be overcome to ensure a robust save? Could be this is a complete red herring and it doesn't let DTG off the hook, but if they are indeed scratching their heads over the issue... could be worth a look.
     
  32. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    What I really want from DTG is just an admission that they know of this problem and can or can not correct it. This silence from them is what I find frustrating.
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    An interesting idea but I think incorrect, for the reason that the same save bug affects Playstation and XBox as well.
     
  34. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Restoring of flights in FSX for advanced aircrafts were always messy. It is because advanced aircrafts use their own code (plugins) for avionics, thus the core game wasn't able to persist and restore them. So it was the responsibility of the aircraft dev to work around this and restore the aircraft state after a save was loaded. PMDGs aicrafts, while it was janky, were able to do this.

    In MSFS I read somewhere that the API right now is insufficient, and addons cannot properly load their custom state save.

    This is 100% DTGs bug to fix. Assetto corsa competizione is build on UE and offers a functioning save functionality (one of few racing games to have that). And while it was buggy at first, Kunos actually cared and eventually ironed out the issues.
     
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  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Oh well it was worth a thought and the point about XBox and PS suffering the same issue is well made. Shoddy code in the core, then.
     
  36. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    If DTG actually wants to look into this issue, there must be some way to compare the code in the game that will be saved and then the save file itself to see if there is corruption in the process as well as looking at the other way, save file to what is actually loaded into the game from it.
     
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  37. shacheld

    shacheld New Member

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    If I know I might be in a situation that this is going to happen, especially on Sherman Hill with long routes, I ESC to the Pause Menu and Save Game before I get to the stop. (Especially if I'm learning something)
    I know this is a band aid and I'm just as frustrated, but since its up to us, I just figured out a solution.
    I am of two minds on this though. Some of the challenge is knowing if you don't stop in time your going to lose your game. I find that fun.

    You can save multiple games if you save a copy of your (TSWSaveGame_Username.sav) file and rename it.
    I save my custom scenarios this way also.

    I was watching a German YouTube video that was in English to learn.
    This is how they were sharing Custom Scenarios.
     
  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    With my limited knowledge of the save and restore function, I would imagine that the problem occurs as the save file is being created rather than when it is being restored, since the creation process is more complex than simply restoring a file into the game.
    It would seem that when the save file is incomplete or corrupted in some way, restoring it would lead to an "end game " scenario. You cannot, at that point, choose to load a " last checkpoint ", which would be one partial solution to the problem.
     

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