Sherman Hill = Another Definitive Feedback Thread, How Would You Answer These?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Nov 18, 2021.

  1. Pixelade

    Pixelade Well-Known Member

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    what's with the frame rate? Getting a clear 65-75 fps in Hermosa but once I get the Laramie it's down to 25-30 fps (Ultra Settings, 1440p resolution). Such a huge difference in that one particular region.
     
  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I'd say there is probably more grass around Laramie, since grass seems to be the biggest framerate killer on the route.
     
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  3. Pixelade

    Pixelade Well-Known Member

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    When you have a stop signal immediately following a "go via" waypoint, does that mean the signal immediately following will ALWAYS switch to clear as you pass it? I wasn't sure so I came to a complete stop just to be safe. Going through that without slowing down would've been a major risk to failing the scenario but it bugs me that I have to stop at "go via" waypoints because of a stop signal a few feet following... Hopefully, someone with a bit more knowledge of the game can give me a little insight into how these work.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Pixelade

    Pixelade Well-Known Member

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    that's so strange.. there is quite a bit of grass/foliage in other routes I play and it doesn't seem to be an issue. hmm. thank you, though! :)
     
  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Not neccessarily, so it's safer to stop if the signal is red, which is prototypical anyway. But yeah, I forgot to mention it in my previous post about this run, but this part was really annoying. Not only the waypoint/stopping point really close to the signal, but then it clears to green immediately. Ideally it should be green already so you don't need to stop pointlessly.

    Yes, but the grass on Sherman Hill is more resource heavy for some reason. It seems to have a bigger draw distance compared to other grass types on other routes, and who knows, might have other hidden reasons for it as well. Long story short, the grass is badly optimized and kills the framerate. But as far as we know, they're looking into the issue, so hopefully they can improve the performance on the route soon.
     
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  6. Pixelade

    Pixelade Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Are all nights on this route like this cause I LOVE THAT. It's realistically dark and if you really need to see anything particular, the flashlight (L key) is there for you. (I think a lot of players forget about that). This looks SOOO much better than the night lighting in sand patch grade... c'mon now what is this..? it looks like midday overcast lighting but with starry skies lol


    [​IMG]
    Now, THIS is just spectacular. I hope the dev's don't change this and if they do, at least give us an option in the settings menu. :)
     
  7. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I also think dark nights are pretty cool. The only problem with them is what has been discussed many times previously, the lack of actual lighting. The darkness is realistic, but other lights to counter it are not. Most notably the headlights being almost completely useless, which is very unrealistic for most railways, especially US ones.

    I mean, on most trains you can't even see the rails or ground in front if you, because the illuminated area of the headlights won't even reach the part you can see from the cab windows. Not only is this unrealistic for the most part, but makes gameplay really difficult and unenjoyable. Dark night runs are fun when all you can see are what your headlights illuminate, but when your headlight don't illuminate nothing, then you're just stuck not seeing anything at all.

    Then there is also the issue of other light sources and light coronas not rendering from further away, and the lack of reflective track signs, which makes night runs really unenjoyable and frustrating. Seeing upcoming speed limits and such would be actually doable if signs were reflective to light, like I suppose they are in real life, just like roadside traffic signs. Then light coronas rendering from further away would actually allow you to see oncoming rail traffic and upcoming lit stations. I mean it's ridiculous that I can't see an upcoming train in the dark unless it's already 50 meter in front of me.
     
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  8. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    DTG really need to take notes from SCS Software and Microsoft, those two have night lighting pretty well nailed down. I always enjoy trucking and flying at night, their nights aren't cartoonishly bright, but have plenty of markers and ambient light to still make playing at night doable and visual interesting. DTG fall completely flat, they either make it playable by making night cartoonishly bright, or they make it dark, but have too few light sources, and don't illuminate enough to make playing at night fun.
     
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  9. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Strongly agree with the two previous posts, night time lighting has been never been good in TSW. Train Simulator has much better night lighting than TSW.
     
  10. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    By the way, I noticed that the quite iconic elevaton sign on the top of Sherman Hill is missing from the game. Is there a reason for it? Like has it been removed from the real location as well since or something? Because it's visible on quite a few photos of trains on Sherman Hill, I would think it's an iconic part of the summit and definitely something to be included in TSW as well.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I heard Matt mention that it was supposed to be there and he was not the happiest that it wasn't there. Hopefully it will be corrected.
     
  12. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully this isn't an Adam's team preserved crew release which sits as complete until it can be scheduled into 2023 release we've completed all the services.
     
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  13. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I see. Well it's good to know he acknowledged it and is unhappy about it, hopefully someone on the team can spend a little time to create the sign and place it there.

    It's a bit weird how the majority of the route scenery, the big open plains and rocky formations are very well done, yet iconic "landmarks" get missed. For example, Cheyenne station's texturning is also pretty badly done. You would think it would be better, it being literally 5 meters from the mainline and being a landmark.
     
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  14. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I would've thought that sign would've been one of the first landmarks added in, as that has to be one of the easiest landmarks to model, really bizarre choice.
     
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  15. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    It is surprising especially since the sign is present in the TS Classic version of the route. Not game breaking nor immersion canceling by any means, but just a bit disappointing.
     
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  16. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Active Member

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    It is disappointing not to see the sign! Hopefully, they add it.
     
  17. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well I just had a really weird experience today.

    I was doing a run from Laramie to Hermosa. After the service ended, I continued the free roam with the intend to continue the drive to Cheyenne. But the signal was still red, so I decided that while I'm waiting, I might as well walk forward a bit and pick up that fossil collectible that's right near the curve before the Hermosa tunnel.

    So I picked it up and started walking back to my train, when I suddenly noticed that it started moving without me! So I ran to it and as it was already going at a bit of speed, I managed to climb aboard and go back into the cab. At first I tought the AI took over without the game telling me (as that happens sometimes), but there was no driver in the cab. The throttle was also in idle. It couldn't let me sit back down, as it said the service is already moving too fast for me to take over.

    I could move the brake handle to emergency, even the alerter tripped, but the brakes didn't actually apply and the train continued going by itself. So at the end, I just quit the session. But what the hell was that? Weird ghost train behavour. If the AI took over, then at least place a driver in the cab and alert me of it happening, not just move my train without me.
     
  18. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I wonder whether it was just AI doing the next service move. Does usually plug a driver in though
     
  19. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    My usual way of driving is only from free roam and also more services without reloading, so what you have experienced is:

    - At the startime of your service is based on, which is the time the service would load from the menu, and the service starts from freeroam, you have to be in the drivers chair. If you are outside the loco, a.i takes over.
    - As soon the service has started, you can leave the cab.

    An example:
    - You finish your first run at 6:40
    - Same train has another run at 7:00 --> Until 7:00 you can go outside, do whatever you want
    - If you are not in the drivers chair at 7:00, A.i takes over
    - After the games has recognized you as player are driving, service starts and you can leave the train again

    --> This is valid on every route with every service in the timetable mode

    (By the way, also had a runaway train at sherman hill once due my brake mistake stupidity ;). --> Wanted to check if brake calipers are animated on freight wagons etc when brakes were released...)
     
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  20. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see! Makes sense then, but I wonder why the game doesn't prompt you to give up the service in this case, like it usually does.

    By the way, has anyone ever seen actual cars as cargo in the autorack cars? Because every time I do an autorack service, they're always empty. I know in Sand Patch Grade the autorack cars had cars in them, is it missing from this route (like the cargo from the reefer cars), or am I just being unlucky?

    Also, I noticed that the wind turbines rotate even with wind set to none. Weird, because on SPG they rotate according to wind strength, so I wonder why that's not the case here.
     
  21. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    I have spot on grain trian that brakes behavior is strange when you don't fully recharge the rear.
    When front is 90 and rear 87 and you drop 6PSI, front goes down to 84 but rear instead to match 84 drpos also reduce 6PSI from rear to read 81.
    Normaly when your rear goes from 87 to 84 you get reduced brake force, but when pressure drop along brake pipe falls to 81 it tries to match equilibrium and rise back to 84, what cause, that rear locos and cars release its brakes and you may get to trouble rolling down the grade. I observe thar rear locos kick in dynamic brakes but sometimes it is not enougth if you speed is higher.
    Adition pressure drop to 80PSI ony make thing worse because rear don't dops from settled 84 to 80, but from memorized 81PSI to 77 and than rise to 80 equilibrium what release more cars on rear end of your train and your troubles are even worse.
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    In other words: fully recharge the brakes, or else.
     
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  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Are the stop markers going to be reviewed, after a 2 hour run I nearly lost this one where the marker was 2-3 yds from signal.

    I clenched and braked hard!

    Screenshot (85).png
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    On these with heavy trains I have to stop several yards back and then creep up to the marker. But it's ridiculous to have to do that; real US freights stop as much as 50-80 yards back. As long as you can see the signal and you aren't fouling any switches or crossovers, you're good.
     
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  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    This was pure luck and emergency setting about 20yds earlier
     
  26. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    Hi folks
    Anybody here feel the same with me? I feel the coal train on Sherman Hill could be stretched out to 100 or 110 cars long, with mid train DPU or rear end DPU or both. I think the current coal train formation on Sherman Hill (3 engines upfront + 50 coals hopper) is too short and too light for this challenging up & down grade.
     
  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Picked this up for 75% off in the sale. Going to keep it, but the performance is awful. Okay my PC is pretty old (I7 4770 @3.5Ghz, 24Gb RAM and GTX 1650 with 4Gb RAM) but it still runs all the other routes very well apart from the known issue of occasional pause and stutter. However Sherman is literally a slide show, doing the second Journey Mode "Hill Start" was almost impossible, just so sluggish. I don't want to have to turn my settings down just for this one route when everything else is fine!
     
  28. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Have you dropped your foliage slider to medium as that should give you a fps boost. You might also need to lose some adjustments to your engine.ini file if you have edited it.
     
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  29. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Sadly you'll have to, as the grass is killing in on this route. Go for Medium foilage settings and you'll get most of your FPS back. Will still run worse than the avarage route, but at least it's playable that way.

    For example, I get 30-40 FPS in Boston Sprinter with maximum settings, while only 20-30 FPS on Sherman Hill with medium grass settings (everything else untouched).
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I'll go for medium foliage.

    Only adjustment to ini was the one that stops the distant trees from flickering.

    DTG really need to look at some sort of optimisation for this route, though.
     
  31. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully they do, because currently it's ridiculous, that's for sure.
     
  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well turning foliage down to medium has helped... a bit. Not just the grass but I reckon those snow fences are poly heavy as there was a noticeable return to stuttering once I encountered those. Scenery generally looks a bit over bright, more like the Mojave than Wyoming uplands. However short of turning the graphics down so it looks like Run 8, this one is firmly in DTG's court to sort out and shouldn't be left for the Preservation Crew either.

    The SD70 has a few issues too. Sounds a bit off, too high pitched needs a deeper bassy sound. No working air flow is a poor omission when trying to manage a 8000 ft + freight train. Only one of the HUD's working but at least we get an EOT indication. Though with two DPU's on the rear also pumping air into the system the brakes should be releasing a bit quicker, again if Run 8 is anything to go by.

    Still if we eventually get some steam or maybe the GTEL's, worth hanging onto but overall score so far, 5.5/10. i.e. a weak thumbs up on Steam!
     
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  33. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Probably because they’re class 66 sounds and not SD70 sounds.

    That’s not simulated in TSW. You’re only pumping air into the system from the front. There was a thread with instructions to turning on the rear locos’ compressors as long as you’re standing still to at least fasten the initial pumping up at the start of the service.
     
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, now you mention it I remember the appeal for sounds. Must have fallen on (no pun intended) deaf ears. Just sounds so wrong, would have been better aliasing the existing SD40 as UK 66's are far more silenced than their US big brothers.

    That sounds like too much faff with the rear locos, just read a couple of pages of my Game Of Thrones book while waiting for the brakes to come off. If DTG want to declare this a simulation, they should fix it though.
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Wrong engine. The SD40 used the old 645, the SD70 (and 66) use the 710.
    DTG actually had a sound survey of a live SD70ACe set up and scheduled, but then Covid hit. Thus the substitution.

    And it doesn't sound very wrong, except, yes, it could be noisier (especially the dynamic brake scream, which can be earsplitting). They are after all real-life 710 recordings, just from the 12-cyl instead of the 16-cyl.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2022
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  36. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    There is an issue with the automatic eye adaptation that makes the outside look too bright when sitting in the SD70's cab. I can recommend using r.EyeAdaptationQuality=0; in the engine.ini to make ot look normal. I think it's much more enjoyable that way.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Will do.
     
  38. dr1980

    dr1980 Member

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    There’s a really good sound mod pack for this out there that’s makes a nice difference to my ears…preview of it is here:
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Off to fetch!
     
  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well the sound and visual mods above certainly help, but by god even with the foliage down at medium this is just an insane stutter fest climbing the 0.8% gradient up towards Hermosa. Heaven knows how it performs on the consoles. In addition my train has been moving for around 25 minutes now and the EOT is still only registering 85psi.

    Looks to me like another fire and forget release, quickly beta tested by the “ooo and aaahh” division, to be consigned to the Preservation Crew inbox for 18 months time.
     
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  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Even with my aging PC, I was able to hold a steady 30 fps in that stretch, using a vanilla .ini and foliage set to low. Certainly not as pretty as I would like (I prefer pushing graphics at the expense of framerate), but certainly drivable.

    After all, 8th gen consoles are locked to 30!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
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  42. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    One thing I’m finding, is that the route looks much nicer driven from an external camera. For some reason, cab view from the SD70 is squashing things up so the track looks like 3ft gauge (that’s with and without the ini change). Even the text that pops up from time to time looks compressed, sort of narrow angle (as opposed to wide angle) lens effect.
     
  43. ormondroydj

    ormondroydj Member

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    I like many people just picked up Sherman Hill in the sale, and am struggling with FPS. I had edited the engine.ini files and this performs well for all other routes and am happy with the look of the game. People have suggested reducing foliage quality to improve performance on Sherman Hill.

    My question is will changing the foliage quality in-game overwrite some or many or the settings I have in the engine.ini files, or when i raise foliage quality back up to maximum when using other routes will things be how they normally are with the edited engine.ini . In other words is the in game foliage quality independent of the engine.ini file or will i have to remember to re-edit the engine.ini every time i change foliage quality in game to play sherman hill?
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The way the game works, it loads the engine.ini commands when it loads the route. Any settings changes you make after the route is loaded override them, but they are saved in a separate file and engine.ini is left unchanged. In other words, you can turn foliage down for SH, but turn it back up to run other routes and you'll be fine.
     
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  45. ormondroydj

    ormondroydj Member

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    Ah brilliant, thank you!
     
  46. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    The following couple of lines for the engine.ini have also been suggested for Sherman Hill....... Can't say i've noticed it making any visual difference on other routes but has helped with fps on Sherman Hill so worth a try without it affecting your other routes visually.

    grass.CullDistanceScale=0.5
    grass.densityScale=0.5
     
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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Wavey, I'll try that as well.
     
  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I have to conclude, leaving performance issues aside, if there was an award for the most boring route in TSW2, Sherman Hill should get it. Really is quite bland, from the scenery which yes I know is true to prototype but makes me think of 2002 era MSTS routes and the train operations. Notch 8 - uphill, 35 MPH check, read book. Downhill, dynamics 8 35 - 40 MPH, read book, occasional minimum application of train brake to bring back down below 40, back to book.
    I actually prefer Cane Creek and would have to say unless it gets something iconic like GTELs or a Big Boy steamer it will likely become my least played route.
     
  49. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I must admit I’ve gone back to German freight, I have some pzb to think about them. I’d popped down to do the washing up on one Sherman run
     
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  50. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Yes, driving American Freight is an acquired taste, but for some of us, it is much more enjoyable than running a commuter route with jacket rabbit starts and just in time braking then rinse and repeat :).

    To be fair, I like them all and the best is the variety in TSW as well as TSClassic - some days I like the challenge of an S-Bahn run with frequent stops and short tight runs, others a freight on a congested road with loads of PZB challenges, some yard work switching (shunting) cars or a challenge of moving heavy freight over a challenging road in adverse conditions to the occasional milk runs where you veg out watching the expanse of the western high plains roll past —- in my book, it is all good :)
     
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