Train Sim World 2: Roadmap Update - 14/12/2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Dec 14, 2021.

  1. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of an expansion pack for the core routes. I don't like the idea of paying for content sharing. I understand that the development time comes at an expense, but surely developing new features would attract more players to the game and compensate for this anyway?

    I'm going to call it crayon club, since not being able to share real liveries totally detracts from the focus on realism.
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
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  3. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Adam will show us some pictures of the PIS in the stream. They did a great job with the retro platform displays for Tees Valley, no doubt the WSR boards will be awesome as well.
     
  4. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even realize they had done the platform displays on TVL yet- nice!
     
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  5. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I would also like to ask about performance updates to Sherman Hill relative to changing the grass asset to improve frame rates. I love the route and the grass looks great, but I get single digit frame rates (no ini mods and foliage slider down) on a good gaming PC.
     
  6. DL2018

    DL2018 New Member

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    I would like to submit my questions for the year in review Q&A.

    I have kept up to date with most of the roadmap live streams, and the Spirit of steam was discussed briefly in one of the streams, however I would like to request more information on the progress of that as we come to the end of 2021. I`m not asking for anything that would give away what the planned locomotive is, but maybe more information on how it is proceeding whilst "In Planning" and working with Simugraph or what might be holding it back from "In Production"?

    I would also like to ask if Dovetail have plans to add more third party developers to the current group, and what hurdles previous developers of train simulator products have coming to TSW?

    Appreciate all the hard work that dovetail and third party teams have put in to this franchise.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The restrictions are especially puzzling given that there are no such restrictions in Steam Workshop on TS liveries.

    I dinna ken why DTG can't permit liveries of their bona fide licensors, provided that contributors don't in effect produce vandalized versions. I have put quite a few hours into Livery Editor, have produced some I am rather proud of - and not one of them could be shared via CC!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Same. Go on Forza, Gran Turismo or Need for Speed and you'll find everyone making liveries containing copyrighted logos and markings, including replica liveries, real brands, movie and anime themed liveries that surely also count as copyrighted material. Yet they have no problem. I wonder if the railway operator companies would even care, or it's just DTG being overly cautious.
     
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  9. DK12345

    DK12345 Active Member

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    Do DTG not realise that the more users a content sharing system has, the more valuable it is? If you have to pay to access it, that isn't the only penalty - there will also be less choice of liveries because there will be fewer users sharing content. I would probably produce and share a few liveries to try and 'give back' to the community in return for being able to download a load of BR and modern TOC locos. I wonder why DTG won't even let you use logos from licenced TOCs when GTSport has a decal uploader, which allows you to make and share liveries featuring anything* - regardless of whether they have the licences or not. At any rate, I won't be touching it in this state.

    *so long as it is innoffensive and apolitical
     
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  10. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Question for the stream: With the expansion pack adding services, does this mean the Preservation Crew will never make improvements to service mode again as that's now a DLC option?
     
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  11. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Fully agree with you. It should be free and be unrestricted
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    This right here definitely is something dtg should answer. DTG always hide behind the licensing excuse but would some companies even care that players are putting their brands on certain trains
     
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  13. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    Oh look. Zero update on the trophy/achievement front.

    Splendid job keeping us in the dark since the wiki post many many weeks ago.

    All I remember is tube stock NO and we got the trophy’s anyway. And nothing for future routes yet Sherman Klump Hill was treated to a whole set(?)

    aware many don’t care but I do and a few others are probably wondering too. Also aware just because it’s not on the road map doesn’t mean it’s not being worked on.

    grateful of any smidge of info how things are looking :D
     
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  14. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is an issue, no game with such an ability has put such draconian restrictions on. It is more likely that DTG want to control the market. Is it right they are going to charge for this? And at the same time creators don't get anything.

    I really hope the modders get hold of this and beat these un-necessary restrictions. Like you I'm only interested in real World ones.
     
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  15. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    There is an increased focus in many industries on copyright and IP rights.
    If you look at one of the biggest problems that Facebook, Youtube have you will find that user-generated content is top of the list.
    A year ago, the biggest adult content website got nearly shut down. Reason? No control over user-generated content. Visa and Mastercard pulled out immediately. Mindgeek had to go to the Moon and back to bring everything back on track.

    DTG needs to start this livery sharing road with proper control and I appreciate their take as this task requires funds and well-trained people. As a person that deals with copyright claims on a daily basis I respect their take and it is the right way to review and deal with protected content.

    The fact that we are used to everybody sharing everything is simply wrong. It's happening for so many years that people find it normal and think that this is how the Internet should function. Things need to be controlled and others that deal with such content should look into uping their game.

    In regards to the expansion content, it depends on how it's priced and if they are willing to do more than what is currently planned for it.
     
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  16. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    It's been said that loco DLCs will no longer get the achievements, and routes will. Chemnitz has had it's revealed through Steam DB, so it won't just be Sherman Hill.
     
  17. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    What is exactly "Crew Feature Update"?...
     
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  18. tcmikaelsouza

    tcmikaelsouza Well-Known Member

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    1) What are the expectations for sound correction from the London Commuter's cabin (377 SN and 387 GX), in addition to the sound of the M7 LIRR which is inaudible?

    2) How is the Dresden and London Commuter correction progressing with regards to crashes, red lights, red lights advanced by AI trains and the like?

    3) Is there any intention of making a line in South America, more specifically in São Paulo Brazil? We have many rail and subway lines that would be interesting to add to TSW2
     
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  19. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    And yet it isn't an issue with Microsoft and many other much larger companies. Bethesda, EA, Konami ETC. Funny that eh?
     
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  20. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    As I said, if the "big boys" do it it doesn't mean it's normal. They just got so big that they have the feeling that they can't fall anymore and thus they can do whatever they want because they are indispensable.

    I was working for EA during the financial crisis in 2008. They were doing absolutely zero to fight chargebacks back then. They were making so much money that they simply did not care about the losses from disputes.
    The crisis hit even them very hard. When they saw how much money they can save from properly handling disputes they have not hesitated a single moment to put a team in place.

    There is so much room for improvement. The bigger the company, the higher the chaos and lack of control.
     
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  21. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    If the livery and scenario sharing tools are paid and the livery editor specifically excludes the vast majority of content people actually want to download, what's the point? Surely it would be more sensible to let console players export their liveries onto USB sticks to share elsewhere, if DTG are so certain on banning logos. After all, if it's being shared on websites out of DTG's control, DTG can't stop it and therefore it's not their problem. The Creator's Club really won't come close to TSC with the restrictions in place. It might as well not exist.
     
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  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Expansion pack

    Baker has a painted train
    Koln has a different train
    Sand patch has another train I already have.

    new service, I've not even finished the 200 on each route already as they were so similar.

    Can someone show me where to leave until horseshoe drops or something new please.

    sorry, not for me
     
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  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Sand patch has another train I already have."
    ?
     
  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    If I understood correct it's the clinchfield one with a different internal control stack solicitr .... I think
     
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  25. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

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    I’m a casual fan who plays almost exclusively British routes and mostly looks for station and livery realism, so to hear that the Creator’s Club is prohibiting branded liveries is really quite disappointing. I can only assume there must have been a few train companies who objected, and even then I find it hard to understand. It’s a bit of a dealbreaker in all honesty. I’m sure the new liveries will be nice, but as I said, I only really play British routes, and the only livery update for the Bakerloo Line I could really envision is a London Overground train (which, by the way, would be awesome, and totally should happen.) which you can’t really do without making a whole other train, so I have no idea what will happen in the way of liveries there.
     
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  26. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. Now, can you predict this week's lottery numbers. :)
     
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  27. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    indeed I read this a while ago. Doesn’t explain the inconsistency and why west Cornwall being a “route” lucked out. Only DTG routes? How charming :D

    they will reach the limit for routes (on the PlayStation anyway) which is why I look forward to up update from them and seeing what the future plans are, should we be lucky enough.
     
  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I fear DTG are slowly moving towards a subscription service, with game extras and features being locked behind a payware wall. Sort of like an in-game store.

    The days of freeware sharing of liveries and scenarios in TS1 will most likely never see the day of light in TSW. The death of the editor was already one massive red flag.
     
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  29. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    I noticed quite a lot on the roadmap this time round. new things brings new questions and comments.
    Many things were moved around as well.
    I agree with this. I think content sharing should be free regardless. Like you mentioned with the creation of this new method, this should attract new consumers and thus balance or lower cost over profit. Ideally this should happen, but I can expect the uncertainty whether or not this will happen. In this case only time will tell when this gets released.

    As for expansions for the core routes, will these be in the form of a paid season pass so to speak? Similar to the season pass we got over the summer for Rush Hour but all immediate content. I think it's way to early to assume that one, I just wanted to ask. Could this open the door for future expansions based on other routes (including new updated timetables, liveries, even small map expansions (hardware permitting). I know this contradicts what was stated during the very first reveal of Rush Hour, being that there are no projected plans to add map or route expansions to existing routes. Sorry in advance if this was answered by user(s) above.

    I want to hear your thoughts though. As a human I want to hear what people think.
     
  30. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I thought lirr was going to get a route expansion .
     
  31. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    Steam will be coming soon its named spirit of steam
     
  32. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Ha, do i read out that some people here might expect anything for free. If you work for a company i asume you would expect a salary too in the end.

    Its nice and asked many times. I like to make a timetable busier this way. Also additional liveries
     
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  33. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    What an interesting roadmap we've got here. It's great that there's plenty of movement going on, however there are a lot of questions to be had, particularly with the Creators Club.

    I'll go ahead and echo the concerns that many others have on here. Creators Club should not be locked behind a paywall. For a platform that facilitates the sharing of user-generated content, this will greatly hinder the user base; the exact sort of thing you want to avoid with this. They went through the hard work of building all the infrastructure for this, only for it to be used by what? Maybe 10 people? The user base could be much, much larger than that.

    Creators Club needs to be available for everyone to access and use.
    Have it separated and set aside from the rest of the expansion pack.

    Regarding the limitations surrounding liveries and copyright, this is both understandable, yet frustrating still. Firstly, one has to remember that licenses aren't just some made-up excuse for DTG to hide behind. Copyright is the (very broken) and ugly reality of the world we live in today. The year is 2021, a company's brand image matters more now than it ever has. It's a VERY finicky matter that is dealt with in a case by case basis. Just because Forza gets away with it doesn't mean that TSW can. Sometimes it could literally come down to the size of the player base and the potential recognition and sales, a case that Forza can boast in order to schmooze car manufacturers and brand holders. The same case would be difficult for TSW to make.
    However with all this said and done, I wish DTG could still find a way to make a deal with TOC's and manufacturers. Perhaps it could be said that train simulation garners a much more passionate player base and thus is much less likely to create profane and controversial livery designs that damages one's brand. There's arguments to be had on both sides, but the point I'm trying to make here is that I hope limiting real-world logos and designs isn't a set-and-done deal, and is something that can continue to be negotiated for?

    Beyond this, I find it peculiar that the expansion pack focuses on the base routes for TSW2. Don't get me wrong, they're great routes that can benefit from a few improvements, however I feel as though these improvements can have far more of an impact elsewhere.
    The expansion pack should have set its focus on the three Rush Hour routes instead.
    Why is that, you might wonder?
    While with the current proposal we only get three repainted locos that sort've makes sense to use on the three base routes, you could instead have three locos that greatly enhance the variety and gameplay on the Rush Hour routes instead.
    For instance...
    - The Acela Express for Boston Sprinter. An American high speed train utilizing the routes speed limits to its full potential.
    - The ICE-T for Naverhkehr Dresden. A sleek, modern train with advanced tilting technology, a unique experience for TSW2.
    - The BR Class 700 for Brighton Mainline. A busy commuter train offering even more gameplay and service variety.

    These three additions are a much more practical and prototypical alternative that could potentially sell even more than what's planned for the expansion pack right now. It certainly would have a far greater impact on gameplay. One can only hope that DTG doesn't pass up on a good opportunity such as this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Three all-new locos would take a heckuva lot more dev time to make, and accordingly have to sell for a heckuva lot more money, than the proposed pack.
     
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  35. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    While this is true and hard to disagree with, I believe a potential loco pack for Rush Hour would be worthwhile, mostly because of its relevancy and its sales potential. There objectively seems to be more interest in the Rush Hour routes compared to the ones that came with TSW2. There isn't a whole lot to expand with those routes anyways, which can be clearly seen with the proposed expansion pack. It feels as though it was quickly slapped together, with a keen focus of it being more of a fun gimmick above all else. And there's nothing wrong with that!
    However, by shifting the focus onto the Rush Hour routes instead, we can have something that feels more at-home; something that is both prototypical and spices up the gameplay a bit more.
    Sure it'll be a large undertaking, but it'll likely offer great returns as well. A much better proposition in my opinion than what we have currently.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't DTG do better just by selling the Acela, ICE-T and 700 separately? It's a pretty good bet they're coming, esp. since DTG have figured out tilting physics with the 612


    (it's also the case that there is value in keeping the older routes updated - certainly in giving SKA the correct S-Bahn!)
     
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  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They are probably doing that to the core routes as another experiment of theirs. It makes sense to do it with the core routes in my opinion and see how it goes because everyone owns SKA, Bakerloo and Sand Patch. Not everyone owns a rush hour route. So for example as a person who hasn't bought and will never buy any rush hour route I wouldn't find any value in a rush hour pack. Also in my opinion I think dtg would probably not make as much money compared to doing a core pack considering that not everyone owns a rush hour route. I do get what you are saying though :)

    Also I think it would be better to just release loco dlc's for a rush hour route separately and not as a pack. It would put less of a burden on dtg to get 3 trains released at the same time.
     
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  38. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    There was feedback recently about the electro stars keep getting wheeled out, now we're on the US locos doing the same. Aren't we going to have a nigh on identical loco on sand patch, clinchfield, Sherman and likely horseshoe now?

    we'll end up with another db143 next or something. I think 2022 would be a real treat if we made it through a whole year with locos we've not seen in any guise , a year of freshness.
     
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  39. ehz0689

    ehz0689 Well-Known Member

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    Will there be new achievements for the expansion pack
     
  40. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    It's being worked on - Steam is a challenging thing to get the gameplay and physics right on, so it's taking a little longer than we'd hoped.
     
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  41. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I believe optimisations to the route are being worked on. At this stage I couldn't tell you whether it'll make it into an update this side of Christmas. If not, it should be early next year.
     
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  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    That's good to know, thanks!
     
  43. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Just on the licensing side of things, as I know that's a hot topic. We are being cautious here - IP law is particularly complex, and when our relationships with our licensors are as important as they are to our games, we don't want to jeopardise that. We are aware of how other games use similar tools, and will be working on what that means for you all in terms of day-to-day usage of the tool a little closer to launch.

    We've listed the Livery Designer Competition guidance as the cautious approach (we don't want anyone spending hours on producing liveries which ultimately stand a chance of being rejected when Creators Club launches). That may change as we get closer to release, but assume for the time being that the guidance listed is what you can expect when we launch. If our approach changes, we will let you know in advance.
     
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  44. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    This would be fine, as it doesn't feature any British Rail logos licensed to us by the Department of Transport, and is a historic livery.
     
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  45. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    I was very excited to share all my BR 101 and 143 liveries, but you can probably make a fake logo or just remove logos...
     
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  46. haranoroy

    haranoroy New Member

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    Are there any plans to improve the night lights and the locomotive's headlights?
    American and German locomotives need headlight improvements. (The night lights on the Nahverkehr Dresden are great and the new headlights on the BR 146.2 greatly enhance the night driving experience.)
     
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  47. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Well nothing is holding dtg back from do future expansion packs for the rush hour routes.

    To the paywall: we get a ton of preservation content all for free. Scenario planner 2.0 will be for free too if its part of the core update.
     
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  48. locobilly

    locobilly Well-Known Member

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    The weakness of doing the Bakerloo Line as a core route has been exposed because you can't add a new train to it! DTG should have done a normal line because then you would have plenty of options for new locomotion. The tube could have been done as a dlc. While I'm having a moan, please no more German red trains, you are a British Company please do more UK content. There are plenty of colourful livery designs out there on a multitude of varied rolling stock across our country. Please do more for what I should imagine is the bulk of your customers here in the UK. Greater Anglia, Northern, West Midlands, Merseyrail, LNER, SW Railway, South Eastern, London Overground, Thameslink, First Trans Pennine, East Midlands, Chiltern etc, these are the things you should be doing for your loyal home fans, not endless rehashes of DB red trains just on different routes.
     
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  49. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy bakerloo, so i wouldnt rate this step as weak.
    Dtg need to improve tech, that we can share such lines with the overground section. This way a route like that would live to its full potential.

    Not expecting the current bakerloo gets an update. They would need to rebuild everything i guess.

    At least a new livery and additional scenarios are nice though.
     
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  50. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    DTG can't just stop making German routes and only make US and UK routes. TSW2 has fanbase for the UK, Germany and US. DTG can't just announce that "due to one player not liking the fact that German routes are in TSW2 (disgusting) so we decided to stop making German routes and remove all existing German routes from the store. We only now make British and US routes" It sounds very stupid doesn't it. If you don't like German trains and routes DON'T BUY THEM simple
     
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