Can We Please Have Tsgs Accelerometer On All Locos (poll)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Rudolf, Dec 16, 2021.

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Wich accelerometer do you prefer?

Poll closed Dec 23, 2021.
  1. The TSG version with colours to show increase/decrease

    105 vote(s)
    85.4%
  2. The DTG version, which does not show this using colours

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  3. I don't care about

    16 vote(s)
    13.0%
  1. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    View attachment 74807
    Maik (TSG) introduced an improved accelerometer, which uses two colours, blue to show speed increase and yellow to show speed decrease. For me this works a lot better than the DTG accelerometer. The main reason is that what I really want to know is whether my speed is increasing or decreasing. The amount of increase/decrease is not very important. Especially small increases/decreases are not very well visible.

    The poll is open for 7 days.

    EDIT

    I wnated to insert another screeshot, but Murphy is valid anywhere. It turns out that around zero Maik uses a white neutral colour. I hadn't seen that (never too old to learn :)). As soon as I play again, I will give it a retry. Till that moment I invite to to believe that Maiks solution is actually working.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
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  2. paweuek

    paweuek Active Member

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    The coloured version is perfect. I'd like to have it in every loco.
     
  3. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Yes ever since tsw2 introduced new speedometer it become almost useless. I would prefer insted of circle a single line or arrow, but for sure in different colour for aceleration and deceleration. Arrow could simply turn up when accelerating and down decelerating. Than there would be no need for the different colors.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    What exactly should I be looking at in the screenshot, because I don't see any yellow or blue in the accelerometer?
     
  5. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I think in the stream the argument was brought up that this was not implemented on all trains due to accessibility problems - which I totally understand, colors are a tricky thing in that regard. But at the same time, I don't think the introduction of these colors would make it worse for affected people, they just would not get the same "upgrade", so I don't really see a reason to not implement it. It would help a lot of people, and would not affect the remaining ones in any negative way (as far as I can tell with my narrow mind :) )
     
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  6. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I think the simple line from the original TSW worked best. The ball is too big and silly looking.

    Though I usually drive without the HUD, and even if the HUD is on I never paid any attention to the accelerometer, so to me it's fine either way.
     
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  7. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    There is a simple Solution for this. Make it an Option, let's choose. Simply make a selection in the Options Menu.
     
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  8. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I'll find out what's involved in updating that potentially.

    BUT for those of you who dont like that it's a big ball and feel it's imprecise - you realise it's quartered specifically to make the centerline extremely visible and rather than being a say 5 pixel bar, like it used to be, you now have a literal 1 pixel bar to see what it's doing? Personally I find it much clearer.

    There used to be a problem when this HUD was first launched, not fixed until Rush Hour update, which meant the bar was off-centered when neutral which basically rendered it entirely useless, but that's been fixed now.

    I also want to look at applying a non-linear scaling to it, so that small accelerations have a bigger visual impact than bigger accelerations.
     
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  9. tygerways#2596

    tygerways#2596 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I would prefer the accelerometers in the train models to work properly, if they exist in the specific locomotive/multiple-unit.

    If there is a properly working (non-digital) speedometer in the model, you don't need an accelerometer anyway, because you can see which way the needle is leaning.

    I wasn't aware that there is an accelerometer on the in-game HUD..
     
  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons why I prefer analogue gauges over digital ones :D
     
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  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That’s really way too oversolicitous. Sadly, there are things in life which the handicapped don’t have full access to; TSW isn’t playable at all for the blind. As it is, some functions like the red throttle lockout box aren’t useful for the color blind, but it’s very useful for the nine in ten players who aren’t.

    Maik’s accelerometer is such an improvement it’s hard to quantify. Just in the matter of getting brakes balanced on a downgrade, it’s a lifesaver
     
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  12. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the original simple white line version, that worked best for me
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Maik's… The accelerometer is essential in a 2D simulation of a 3D world which lacks the G force you would feel in the real world.
     
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  14. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Probably tried to make the screenshot to hastily. Sorry, but the ball is normally blue when accelleating.
     
  15. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    For me it simply does not work. It is still hard to see if the ball is above the centered line. I think the idea of an arrow that just shows a binary value is a good idea, we do not need more than that, but it may be unstable round the turning point. I am aware of the inaccuracy if differential calculus as you need here,Maiks solution works for me, although you may come up to something better. Probably the whole concept of a meter trying to show this is a bad idea.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It could be done as a bar which grows longer in a higher/lower direction relative to a null midpoint; if there is zero acceleration then the bar effectively disappears or is reduced to a thin line. Not all that different from the existing tractive force and motor amps meters. (It could also be color-coded, as is already the case with the power/dynamic braking meter, but even those without color vision can see in which direction it's going.)
     
  17. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    This is the most important thing with it at all. I did the new accelerometer with exactly this in mind. The colours were made on top of that. I have implemented it as a inverse-exponential display. With lower acceleration values it moves more than with the higher parts then. What is also important, it needs to fit the vehicle itself. It does not make sense to make it a "general purpose" copy-paste thing. You always need to fit it to the train to show useful readings.
     
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  18. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’ll be honest I’m not fussed as I don’t see the hud
     
  19. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I think more color is more beneficial for people, that way we will be able to differentiate.
     
  20. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Color doesn't matter to me as I'm color blind. So TSG's pretty much looks the same to me.
     
  21. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we could think out the box and have two pop up graphics come up on screen in the the way the cameras do on a stream

    upload_2021-12-17_5-22-34.jpeg

    and

    upload_2021-12-17_5-24-14.png

    I
    think these should pop up where the score does with each press of the accelerator or brake.
     
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  22. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’ve realised over time that I never really use the accelerometer, preferring instead to watch the train or HUD speedometer changing. I’ve never seen it as being sensitive enough to be of much use since it changed to the ball. I’ve always noticed the speed changing before seeing the minute change in the position of the ball. This is why the colour and non-linear response of TSG’s version is so good.
     
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  23. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the accelerometer can't be read precise enough to be useful. Keeping an eye on your speedometer gives you information about acceleration way sooner than the accelerometer does.
     
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  24. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I like Maik’s implementation, but would settle for a pure bar rather than the present blob.
    While the blob may be more accurate the bar is quicker to judge in a rapid scan.
     
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  25. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    The colored accelerometer is not new to the G6. It was first seen in the HMA trains (Maik worked on those too and did the extra work).
    I gave feedback on it then, but at the time Matt told me that it was not possible to add it to all trains.
    I will repeat what I said then here:

    It is somewhat difficult to tell if you are accelerating or braking by looking at the black and white accelerometer. With my 2K screen I need to look at it for 1.5 - 2 seconds to tell, while in real life you do not need to look at anything and you instantly know if you are accelerating or braking because you can just feel it.

    With the colored accelerometer I can see if the train is accelerating, maintaining the speed or braking in 0.5 seconds or less, which is exactly what I need not to miss signals or be distracted from driving the train. This is specially important in routes where you need to be managing the brakes constantly (ex. SPG when driving to Cumberland, or Arosalinie when driving from Arosa to Chur).

    So yes, if the current state of the game engine allows to add the colored accelerometer to all trains or at least to new trains, by all means do it. TSW2 is a train simulator, not an eyesight checking software.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2021
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  26. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    Inkar hit the target. If I remember correctly, 0.5 seconds in the computer world is the approximate threshold for human "distraction" - longer and you lose focus. Kind of scary, since it probably applies to driving a car!
     
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  27. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. Matt then said they would think about it, but we never got an answer, though they fixed a bug in the accelerometer. Now got Matts opinion, so we need to increase the pressure. I think several solutions and issues came up, but it is clear there is room for improvement and most of the votes till now would like to see improvement here.
     
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  28. paweuek

    paweuek Active Member

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    I'm officially increasing the pressure now;)
     
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  29. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    i think you hit the n……. Er, what were we talking about :)
     
  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how the ball is much clearer to be honest. It's hard to gauge the acceleration because it's a ball. There's no center that moves to see the rate of acceleration since the ball that moves is way too big. Another poor design choice by dtg. The bar that was in tsw2020 was much better as you got a better sense of acceleration. Personally the colored accelerator is much better and it seems everyone in this thread at least agrees and should be introduced in the game for all locos because the ball isn't clear at all.
     
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