I Feel Like Beta Tester

hi, since rush hour i feel like a beta tester who has to pay to be able to test dovetail games. I paid rush hour, and for me that I work to be able to eat was not cheap at all, this 3 months ago. From this package I bought one of the routes was Dresden, which came with the pack and I liked it so much. Well, it came spoiled, nothing more than a heap of accumulated data that is of no use to me but to get on my nerves. I bought it on October 19 and now in the last road map after Christmas they don't tell me anything about Dresden. three months and the only answer I have is "we are working on it" but I already paid no ???, for a product in good condition, no? so they are working with advance money. And we all know what happens when we pay in advance. Please, do not make us fools, we players pay your salaries, a little consideration, if you want beta testers, do not make them pay so that they can squeeze with someone else's money. We are not beta testers and we have the right to a good product. Please do not ask us for forgiveness, forgive us, do not ask, you must avoid asking, compensating us would be a way, but I doubt that dovetail will compensate us. But please fix a damaged product that they will sell us for good. Do not sell jack for a hare. and no more excuses or forgiveness. Act like honest people and give us what we pay for with sweat. Thank you

 

Dear oh dear, don't you go on? Forever moaning about something. I bet when you were born you came out moaning about something not being correct.

Are you starting loads of different moaning threads to see which one gets the most replies?

 

I'm Starting to ignore them Len, and really spend less time on the forums as there are too many of these threads appearing. Mainly for the fact that they list mostly all the same problems that Have / are been worked on by the team. Also the OP does not get a personal response tailored to suit them, from DTG Also certain people that feel their specific problem hasn't been fixed (for their own little world) in the latest round of updates.
For these people if they are not happy how things are progressing then think about calling it a day and go. Its upto you, I dont really care.. Yes there's problems with TSW 2 and THEY ARE fixing it. But the world does not revolve around you, You, me as well as most other people on this forum are insignificant pimples on the arse end of life, nothing more nothing less. . Your post or other peoples posts wont be responded to any quicker by keep on posting in the vain hope you will get a reply tailored to suit your needs.

Regards

Hentis

 

Poetry mate!

 

Maybe if things got "Fixed" people would not be moaning so much!

Personally I do not see that "They Are" fixing things. It would seem they might "Fix" something, but break numerous other DLC's into the bargain. In my book that's "Not" a fix!

Everyone's opinion is valid, however many times they post. Maybe it shows how badly they are feeling treated.

Yes Kekanha has posted lots of Threads, but that is not a reason to be rude towards the person. You know nothing about their situation or life. That TSW2 might be their escape from the world they live in, only to find it gives more frustrations than enjoyment with something they have paid money for.

You equally have the choice to not read the Threads or Posts that Kekanha puts on the forum.

 

I tend to agree with the OP. Unfortunately when you are still developing a product you're as likely to break things as time goes along as you are to fix them (note the recent issue with "0" speed signs on various routes)

Unfortunately because DTG always run to a tight development timetable and always pushing out new content, with relevant "updates" this means that older or even recent bugs never make it past testing stage.
Better to have some time where the base functionality remains stable and develop to that stability than constantly push out new versions of the core every time a new route comes out (possibly breaking the older routes, or even all routes)

And of course you do have to question sometimes the viability of a testing system that misses issues such as the recent "red light glitch" and so on.

Yes some people may seem like whinging airbags, but they do have a point sometimes

 

OP has every right to moan, I totally agree with him/her, and by all means OP, keep making these topics if not for the sole reason to annoy the blind fanboys such as this 'Hentis' character (why you sign this at the end of every post is so LOVE annoying, you're not writing a LOVE email). I'm in NZ, do you have any idea how much TSW DLC costs here? I've spent over 1k on this product only to be let down time and time again. If you think DTG's endless shallow apologies are good enough then good on you, but don't berate the OP for expressing his opinion even if he is repeating himself. GTFO of here and post in another thread if you don't like it.

 

To be very clear - what we are offered are not beta versions. It is definitely early access. You don't have to call it anything else. However, it should also be marked that way. DTG is thus in the league of indie games, with a typical financing model, but without a corresponding designation. Since these releases did not appear unfinished just yesterday, one can and must assume a planned business model that is not communicated to the customer. This is called a deception. Every lawyer should see it the same way. And Sony, too, for sure.

The problem, however, is that if customers no longer buy unfinished DLC, there would be no new DLC and errors in the previous ones could not be fixed because nobody has them and errors are unknown. That would be the end then.

DTG knows that their products are unfinished and there is a lack of fairness and transparency to clearly identify this. This should then at least be done in the PlayStore. Buy at your own risk! Updates create new problems.

 

[QUOTE = "Lenwigg, post: 426544, member: 19407"] Querido, oh querido, ¿no continúas? Siempre gimiendo por algo. Apuesto a que cuando naciste saliste gimiendo por algo que no estaba correcto.

¿Está iniciando un montón de diferentes hilos de lamentos para ver cuál obtiene la mayor cantidad de respuestas? [/ QUOTE]

Das-me muita pena, os putos do meu bairro que nunca fizeram nada na vida são como tu. Divertem-se com os outros porque não sabem quem são. É triste que um pai ande a gastar dinheiro para dar ao mundo putos como este. Pena.

 

English please, same as my post

 

"Early Access" is a beta they want you to pay for. Steam invented Early Access.

 

I fully agree with the OP, and with this comment right here. Everyone has their own opinion about the game's current state, and it seems like when some people attempt to express how they feel about some of the negative aspects of it, all of the 'fanboys' come out of the woodworks, claiming "We see way too many of these threads - they are fixing the issue."

Truth is, we wouldn't see so many of these negative threads if the issues were actually being fixed in a timely manner. There are still preservation crew updates from Spring that we haven't seen released yet, and some routes, like BRD, which were featured in the biggest release of this year, have major issues, that prevent people from even playing it on certain platforms. Yes, it is a very big game, and there are bound to be some issues, and yes, we have to sometimes give DTG the benefit of the doubt, however, we must also hold them accountable for their many mistakes, which some people (notably the 'fanboys') seem to either not care about, or pretend are non-existent in the first place. If this is the way you want to play the game, not caring about the various issues, then go ahead, we are not stopping you, however, remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't go at someone for talking about an issue that they and the majority of other players are facing just because you don't want to acknowledge it, and see the game as 'perfect'.

 

Nicely said

 

Don't think Steam "invented" early access... pre-release versions of games are as old as I am (remembering buying magazines with demo games on cassette in the late eighties)

 

[QUOTE = "ZeenozPlays, publicación: 427229, miembro: 12228"] Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con el OP, y con este comentario aquí mismo, todos tienen su propia opinión sobre el estado actual del juego, y parece que cuando algunas personas intentan expresar cómo se sienten acerca de algunos de los aspectos negativos de esto, todos los 'fanboys' salen de la carpintería, afirmando "Vemos demasiados de estos hilos, están solucionando el problema".

Truth is, we wouldn't see so many of these negative threads if the issues were actually being fixed in a timely manner. There are still preservation crew updates from Spring that we haven't seen released yet, and some routes, like BRD, which were featured in the biggest release of this year, have major issues, that prevent people from even playing it on certain platforms. Yes, it is a very big game, and there are bound to be some issues, and yes, we have to sometimes give DTG the benefit of the doubt, however, we must also hold them accountable for their many mistakes, which some people (notably the 'fanboys') seem to either not care about, or pretend are non-existent in the first place. If this is the way you want to play the game, not caring about the various issues, then go ahead, we are not stopping you, however, remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't go at someone for talking about an issue that they and the majority of other players are facing just because you don't want to acknowledge it, and see the game as 'perfect'.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the support, and it makes noise is because it is the only way I have to show my discontent. The engine was changed on October 19, today is December 22. With the engine release update, the 155 did not also come the famous rush hour that came with many problems. currently only Boston works properly, dresden and london commuter are still poor. three months working on it. pay for a pack, in a few months another version of the game may come out, and everyone will switch to the new version, and we lose our money. is it three months ???, without any improvement. How can they deceive saying that they are working on it? Now that they have the money they worry about releasing more DLC's to earn more money.

 

TSW fanbois Routine -
a. Get excited with every announcement
b. Buy content
c. Moan about it
d. Make posts criticizing DTG

 

Yes that's about it

Its up to DTG & Rivet to fix that, so it goes something differently

 

To all those people that say No They dont fix it....


Core

• Improvement to title memory footprint (should impact all routes) – this should reduce some performance issues on most routes
• Fixed routes showing speed limits of ‘0’:
  • Nahverkehr Dresden
  • Haptstrecke Rhein-Rhur
  • Great Western Main Line
  • Ruhr-Sieg Nord
  • Rhein-Ruhr Osten
  • Rapid Transit
  • Sand Patch Grade
  • Main Spessart Bahn
  • Tees Valley Line

Scenarios/services blocked by red lights

The following scenarios, which were previously blocked by AI traffic trapped by red lights should now be fixed:

• [Cathcart Circle] – Divergent scenario
• [Cathcart Circle] – Dreich Day scenario
• [Cathcart Circle] – Around and Around scenario
• [Northern Trans Pennine] – Tools of the Trade scenario
• [West Somerset Railway] – 13:15 Bishop’s Lydeard to Minehead
• [West Somerset Railway] – 14:15 Bishop’s Lydeard to Minehead
• [West Somerset Railway] – Swap Shop scenario
• [Diesel Legends] – Slough to Paddington (CL101)
• [Diesel Legends] – 1A19 06:00 service
• [Diesel Legends] – 2R10 from London Paddington service
• [Diesel Legends] – 2A44 Slough to Paddington service
• [Diesel Legends] – 1A49 07:00 London Paddington service
• [Clinchfield Railroad] – 12:12 CRR97 Northbound service
• [Tees Valley Line] – 16:15 to Middlesbrough service
• [Great Western Express] – 2R05 GWE service
• [Nahverkehr Dresden] – S1 Meißen Triebishchatal - Dresden service
• [Nahverkehr Dresden] – 08:49 Freight Chemical – Reisa service
• [Hamburg-Lübeck] – RB811321 14:31 Service
• [Hamburg-Lübeck] – IC2221 Lübeck to Hamburg
• [Hamburg-Lübeck] – RB81 Bargteheide - Hamburg
• [Boston Sprinter] – 07:59 Northeast Regional service
• [Boston Sprinter] - #722 service

Cathcart Circle

• Route introduction should now be able to be completed after fix to HUD

PS4 update – Arosalinie

The following issues which were not improved with last week’s update are now fixed.

• [Livery Designer] Cannot select Open Coach in order to make a custom livery.
• [Scenario - Tis The Season] Expected arrival times are tight for a scenario marked as Easy.
• [Scenario - Water Logged] Player gets stuck at red signal at Chur.
• [Scenario - Xmas Delivery] Present unloading animations seems intermittent.
• [Timetable - Menu] Services in the timetable use the word Xmas instead of Christmas.
• [Timetable - R1417: Chur - Arosa] Player gets stuck at red signal at St. Peter-Molinis.
• [Timetable - R1517: Chur Turnaround] The distance to Chur North marker is displayed incorrectly.
• [Timetable - R1565 Chur Runaround] Expected arrival time is hard to achieve.

On behalf of all of us at Dovetail Games, we wish you all a very happy and safe holiday period.

The update will download automatically for owners when it becomes available. Players should allow at least 24 hours after restarting Steam, EPIC Game Store or their console for the update to appear and before contacting Customer Support

 

Here it is translated. Google translate to the rescue

"It makes me very sorry, the kids in my neighborhood who have never done anything in life are like you. They have fun with others because they don't know who they are. It's sad that a father is spending money to give the world kids like this. Pity."

 

You are what you eat. Or so I’ve heard, but I can relate to this feeling.

 

Thanks, even after reading that I am not sure what the poster is saying.

 

Maybe they should reword it from "there you go, we've fixed bla bla bla" to "there you go, we think we've fixed it, please let us know what we've broken now"

 

It shouldn't be broken in the first place......

 

That's... not how game development works. Although we'd all wish it was. Sadly, things will always crop up. I've never seen a game without any sort of bugs.

I'm not even going to break this post down because I can get my head around what you're trying to say overall, but I'll extract this bit:

But, "we're working on it" could fine well be the correct awnser. Of course, if they say that on Christmas Day it's a bit untrue considering they're all on holiday, but in other times we should take it as the truth - we aren't in that studio, who are we to know it's not true. (I can tell someone is going to say "well how do we know it's true?" - well, just take their word for it? It's by far your best source.)

Beta Testers can't catch everything - something I, from the outside (of development) perspective, as a player see everywhere, it's rare for a game to be bug-free.

We have a Technical Reports section for a reason.

Yes, you already payed for the product.
Yes, you payed for a good product. (which one I'd argue Dresden is anyway)

However you payed for the product whilst it was in the state it was on the store at the moment you bought it. That part's on you.

That's not an excuse for the Devs not to fix it, however it's true. They'll be working on it. Bug Fixes seem to be back on the priority list - where they should have been anyway - judging by the speed of the speed limit (pun intended) display fix.

So yeah, the awnser to your questions are most likely, "We're working on it".

 

Correct in a my little pony and care bear perfect world, but this isnt My little Pony or a care Bare perfect world.... So it is broken.

Hentis

 

Sort of agree with you "TrainSimPlayer". Although some of the bugs recently, have been glaringly bad and certainly not tested. I would "Presume" that once you know there are issues, you would make sure that next time your testers worked on something, they would check those things as well.

Yes there is no bug free game in the world. Although there does seem to be glaringly bad issues with TSW2.

People buy a Game / Simulation in good faith, that it will work and that if there are bugs, they will be dealt with in a timely fashion. People are only saying what they find, after paying their hard earned cash on something.

The thing here is that Good Faith has run "Very" thin over this year for both DTG & Rivet. They seem by their actions and rhetoric to not be doing a lot about it. They say they are but the proof is in what actually gets de-bugged, Other than to take more customers money with yet more bugged DLC's.

The ball really is in DTG & Rivet to address the issues and hopefully in 2022 we can return to a more positive forum.

On a plus note I have just found that "Tools of The Trade" in NTP is now fixed

Have a good time over the festive break ALL of you.

 

You have a strange view on the world. So say you buy a watch, and get it home and it doesn’t work… is that okay, I mean the world is imperfect and it’s not a My Little Pony watch. Plus it’s right twice a day anyway! So it is broken and no problem ?

 

Ok, and how long is that all after? 3 months? A year of various routes having tons of issues?

 

That's just accepting mediocrity and making excuses for it.

 

No, it's not at all. Bugs are a harsh reality of programming, which for some reason a large portion of these forums seem to misunderstand. There will never be such a thing as a 'bug-free-game.' Even big major triple A studios have to deal with a mountain of bugs, are you seriously going to expect any better from a studio that's 10x smaller than Rockstar or Ubisoft or whatever?
Better yet, how many studios do you see that are actively developing for a game that's basically 5 years old now, going back and improving and fixing previously released DLC? Not a whole lot, really.
It's all a careful-balancing act between managing what consumers want, and what you can provide. Unfortunately in the train simulation genre, what consumers want will always be way more than what one can provide. It's absolutely insane to try and satisfy this crowd.

Nevermind the plethora of content that was released this year, or the bunch of bug fixes we've been getting every two weeks or so.
At least there's progress.
And that right there is what sets apart the good game studios from the bad ones. We as a community might throw around a lot of dirt and slander, and some of it might be deserving. But at the end of the day, the state of the game is constantly shifting and moving around.

There will always be bugs. It's daft to compare computer programming to say, receiving a car with no wheels, or getting home with a broken watch, or what have you. Does your imaginary watchmaker come to your house and installs a fix or a patch to your watch every other week? No, I bet not, because in reality it's all different things, with different factors in play.
If one was to dedicate all their time to chasing bugs around and fixing them, it will eat up resources and time that, quite frankly, just isn't there. Then there's less DLC's and now the community will turn to complaining how the game is stale and lacks in variety. It's just better to split ones resources instead of dedicating them to one or the other.
It's not about making so-called excuses, it's about accepting the reality of programming and video games in general. If you chase around bugs trying to fix them, there will always be more that crops up.

Is this post going to get me labeled as the dreaded fan- word? Probably.
Is this post meant to be argumentative or targeted to a particular person? No.
Should we all continue to provide feedback to these forums in a constructive manner? Yes, obviously. However I ask that before making accusations, try and understand the situation at the very least.

 

Nobody said it had to be bug-free, just tested to the point where the bugs are minor and barely noticeable...

The situation is understood just fine, DTG sell unfinished content to customers and try to fix it over a year or two.

 

They'll get SOME of the bugs sorted out in their own time, we just need to be patient and let them get on with it.
Although, sitting here I would like to know how on earth they missed large bugs, for example, the crashes, terrible audio and environment on some routes etc. Surely someone who cares at DTG saw the amount of technical reports here and thought "we have to do better than that".
It may seem as if I'm critiquing the company, but it would probably be better to slow down the QA process and come up with better products, thus breaking the current cycle of 1. DTG create a new route, loco or whatever 2. QA semi tests it 3. We buy it and within 30 seconds moan about it 4. QA takes a "look at it"- Matt, Sam, Natalie and (to a lesser frequency) JD 5. We don't know what on earth is going on about it until 3-4 months later and Matt goes "look guys here's what we've fixed!" 6. See point no. 3.
If QA was more methodical, most bugs should at least be identified and rectified before sale.
I know our salesman Sam might have something to say about it but if you bought a new car, drove it home and a wheel fell off, you'll be pretty upset and wondering why the hell it wasn't spotted. Same principle.
Anyway I'm going to shut up now before I lambast QA even more.

 

Dovetail games doesn't need to defend it's barely tested dlc,they can just sit back and watch people fight amongst themselves here.On oneside you have those who care about what they buy and just want it to be less broken.On the otherside you have those dtg defenders who say we should be satisfied with what we are offered and just wait for it to be fixed later and then they blame the buyers for buying dtg dlc because it's some how it's the customer fault for not waiting until it's fixed. Baloney It's 100%dtg fault for releasing broken dlc period!

 

I have to say I am surprised "in one way" and "Not in another" why we actually hear very little from DTG or Rivet about ALL these issues. It really seems to us "The Customer" we are not being listened to much. We have had patches that fix somethings, only to break others. Seemingly on the PS4. Which "we are told" is still the main platform for their customers.
Personally I am not recommending DTG & Rivet products to anyone to buy. Directly someone mentions it i say stay well clear and buy something else. Which is a shame as there are some really good looking routes and trains to drive.

What I wold like is the Managing director of DTG to come on here or a live stream and say what's happening, what he as Managing Director is going to do to put the company in a better light. but then is he being told what is happening or are the managers just reporting back everything is great.

To "Everyone" stop buying the DLC's until at least Easter. Let the sale figures speak for themselves and it will go up the line till it gets to the top, as "Why" the monetary figures have fallen through the roof.

 

Of course that is your preference and good luck with your little quest.

Hentis

 

I am torn on how I should feel, I both agree and disagree, I have a pretty low standard for games and DLC's depending on the cost which in this case is a little expensive. I do however feel somewhat down experiencing the many bugs and glitches of the game, I highly appreciate the bugs that have been patched especially hamburg nach lübeck as they said, not 100% sure but will be trying. However there's still many bugs such as the BR1442 Talent 2 from Rapid Transit being stuck on PZB modus Untere, I still wonder how and why, I really hope it gets patched aswell. Other "bugs" as I'm not really sure if they or others even know this exists, if it's only for me however on a track to München-Pasing Bahnsteig 10 there's just a random oberleitung or catenary I think it is called on the track and as far as I am aware it seems to the only one like that on the map, still however it's in the midst of the track. There's many other bugs that are spread across the game however I think you all know them better than I do. I feel like there was almost no thorough QA testing at all or the QA testers just followed the objectives without looking around for oversights and reporting them to the developers. I just hope, and I really hope that things will get better soon, I hope the best for the developers and a happy holidays even if it's late. I hope my comment did not bother anyone if so, I apologize in advance. Feel free to correct me as I do appreciate corrections and help.

God sen ferie til alle!

 

That's all very well telling us that but explain why you seem to be able to put out a brand new route every month or two yet there's existing routes with a multitude of issues that are still "being worked on" for the last year. Surely the priority should be to fix the routes your customers have already bought before releasing more unfinished content at a premium price.

 

Oh, yes. AAA games with big budgets are released bug-free....

https://www.pcgamer.com/red-dead-redemption-2-pc-bugs-crashes-fixes/
https://reddead.fandom.com/wiki/Glitches_in_Redemption_2

 

Removed by DTG Natster - Let's not resort to name calling.

 

Removed by DTG Natster - argumentative

 

Removed by DTG Natster - argumentative

 

Removed by DTG Natster - argumentative

 

Expecting something you paid good money for to work properly isn’t being spoiled or entitled. I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion tbh? The point the poster was making was if everyone made a stand then dtg might actually pull their fingers out and fix the faulty dlc’s they’ve already sold and make sure any future dlc’s they sell are up to a reasonable acceptable standard.

Edited by DTG Natster

 

Removed by DTG Natster - argumentative