PC Tharandter Rampe: Dresden – Chemnitz - The Definitive Feedback Thread

In anticipation of later I thought I would do my normal forum spam. I'm quite excited by this one to see what is different.

There's a few things I'm looking forward to seeing in no particular order;

1. The 612 and how the tilting looks.
   
2. How the route speed variations between tilt and non tilt are conveyed.
3. What interesting landmarks are along the route

What are you looking forward to seeing?

Here's a teaser pic I found when looking on the tubes

 

I'm pretty confident, since Joethefish did this timetable, but I really do hope that the timetable
1) is the RL one (from the period), which means that
2) it's makeable without driving like Lauda (RL timetables have slack built in), and
3) there is adequate setup time at the start

 

It’ll be interesting in that case to see how many services are on this one

 

That's probably not possible in the 612 anyway. Apart from always feeling sick in it, I always had the impression that it was mainly built to turn diesel fuel into noise. A useful side effect was a slight, barely perceptible acceleration...

(Don't get me wrong: I'm nevertheless really looking forward to it.)

 

No diesel is ever going to accelerate like a 25kV AC EMU. But like the MG drivers say, "I'll catch 'em in the twisties."

 

I can't wait to see the preview of this route. The fact that Joe has been involved in the timetable and TSG with the 612 gives me very good vibes.
I would also like it to have the Dresden-Riesa night lighting, so far it's the route I enjoy driving at night by far the most.

And also the German routes are a favorite for me in TSW, because of the variety the layers offer and because I find them the most immersive to play without HUD with safety systems on.
For all these reasons this route will be a day one buy for me.

 

Rivets’ 150 would like a word.

Fortunately for us, Maik has a good track record of doing trains justice.

 

New 612 on the stream is looking awesome!

 

Catenary is awful especially at junctions like for all German routes, this really needs some fixing!!

 

And Chemnitz is modelled the way it looks in 2020, which is VERY different to 2012

 

Shadows are awfully broken for leafless trees, as seen in the screenshots below. The shadows are still casting as if the trees are in full leaf.

 

It was really annoying hearing the PZB acknowledge sound every time Matt was pressing circle to press the SIFA pedal - I thought this QOL change had been implemented for good on consoles? TrainSim-Matt

 

Its very annoying that the 185.6 seems to have the same wrong audio setup as the 185.2 . The traction engines sounds shouldnt be locked to the speed. Why didnt just copy the setup from the 185.5?

 

Related to that, there is a quite strong background noise on the 185.6 (and also the 185.5 from Riesa Dresden) which from my understanding is prototypical - but is it that loud in reality? I can't play with the 185.5 for more than 5 minutes with the sound on, otherwise my brain goes crazy

 

Seems like it is based on cab rides I saw.

I‘ll have to drive the 185.5 again to compare. I have to admit that I wasn‘t paying much attention to the Railpool 185‘s sounds. I do however love the new little details like the Railpool signs in the cab - makes the loco feel more real and prototypical. Also, based on Matt‘s comments, it seems like Railpool would be a great partner for getting other locos in the game since they‘re so forthcoming with reference material and feedback.

 

I wish there would be a bit more to do with 612s. Don't get me wrong - if they had 10 services on the route, they should. But maybe 1-2 services with more units (regularly ran 3 units, sometimes 4) and definitely some stock moves in Dresden as they're also running the RE services to other destinations, so bringing them in from Altstadt, coupling, uncoupling could be a thing, otherwise, the unit looks great.

 

The buzzing sound seems too loud to me too on 185.5, you can hear it clearly from a cab in a different train when it passes.

 

Hadn’t picked up on that but good spot.
I too liked the additional details on the railpool document. If it gives you more info on a train that’s a winner.

I am really pleased we have a DMU and the work on the MFD has been enhanced, that blank screen used to bug me. I wonder if the speed limits carry over onto the 143 screen though.

I do hope the 612 gets another route as I can’t be arsed with scenario planning, that’s why I buy a game rather than make one. Looks like a really great model.

I think the buzzing is protypical but was scaled back on Hamburg , Lubeck (forgot how little I play that) as it was like the worst case of tinnitus in headphones

 

They don’t as three or four on this route. But they did run on the RE3, so that should have added more services, and ECS are unfortunately absent, I agree those would have been much appreciated as well.

 

Based on the stream today all I can say is it looks great.

 

Some initial thoughts coming off the stream;

Firstly I’m not sure what the deal with the capture set up is, but being mainly a PS5 user, the quality of the stream was really quite terrible, seemed overly dark, whilst at the same time the colours seemed far too vibrant. Certainly doesn’t look like this in game (at least on the current route library).

The route itself looks quite nice overall, I’d never really seen much of this line before the announcement of it for TSW, so I can’t speak for its accuracy, however I really liked the semi industrial countryside aesthetic, also the stations seemed different to the usual German ultra basic platforms across the network, really adds a touch of new to the German content.

The 612 seems to be well done, the GNT/Ebula screen is certainly a step in the right direction for cabs feeling more alive, however, 10 services? Really? As others have said already there is definitely room for these to run RE3’s aswell as some ECS movements. Such a letdown that after such a long wait for a new train, and even then a new type of German train, that we get such little to do with it. It was the same issue with the 101, fantastic loco, but the imaginative scope from DTG was massively lacking with its release, I really hope that sense is seen here and this is looked at.

The 185.6 is nice to see, but again, imaginative scope, if it’s a simple case of adding a tag to see this sub into other routes, then why hasn’t this been done? Another let down here, although given the lack of 612 services, I suppose the 185.6 is more reason to play this route.

Coming back to the route, it seemed like there was a few areas built with traffic capacity in mind, such as Chemnitz HBF, Freiburg and a couple of other areas, but it all seemed very empty? Again I’m far from an expert on the area, much less the traffic there, but surely it could look more occupied than it does, static wagons and locos? AI at Chemnitz?

Catenary is, well, awful.

Overall I’ve come off a little disappointed, the 800 AI services in Dresden is nice, but maybe too much effort went into that one location, the rest of the line feels like I’ve just gone back 2 years and previewed a TSW2020 DLC.

 

Because that would involve updating every route that needs it at once before release - is that really practical for a single route release?

 

Substitution has never required multiple route updates though? At least not on the user end.

 

This is necessary, as Railpool is a new operator in TSW2.

 

It does, because it's an update to the route's timetable.

 

It doesn’t, because it’s substituting what’s already there, it isn’t adding new services.

You don’t download an update for every German route when you buy the 155, 187, RRO, MSB or any other subbing content.

We aren’t talking about layering.

 

I'm fairly sure the way it works is: Each loco has its own tag, and each timetable has a list of tags which indicate what trains it can use, for example "DB Cargo Electric", "GWR HST", "ScotRail EMU" (I don't know if they're the actual tags they use, I just made them up). The tag for the Railpool 185 doesn't exist in the other routes' timetables, so they need to update the timetable (and thus the route) to include that tag. This is also why you can't use the MRCE 185 on the routes that came out before RRO.

 

I agree for every word. I don't want to be too drastic because probably i need to write some books of things that can be add to this interesting route. However, talking abaut the br101. Yes wonderful loco, but not a lot of scenary of gameplay, but at the moment we have 30 services on HRR, 2 on HHL and 25 on DRA. And (as a common loco of IC trains today and in past) a lot of routes in game (and in future) where it can layer or directly be present. But this one... the br612 the possibilities are very restrict, and you develop a NEW train (because this is a new one, not just a reskin like br185.2 .3 .5 .6 ecc ecc) for a new route, with a new system (tilting) for just..... 10 services. Ok honestly, a this point was better to do it as an extention of the DRA to make a big project, at the same era. The main train is the br143 with dostos, with 70+ services. Like on the DRA era

 

Possibly the case yes, but then if it was, then I doubt that they would be holding back that info, since the topic surround tagging has been brought up a few times and never once has it been suggested that every route would need an update.

Clarification on that would be needed, however my point still stands that when this sort of content is added, a lot of value is coming from where said content is usable, so why it hasn’t been done, is still (in my opinion) a negative here, and certainly sways me away from a full price purchase.

 

The BR612's headlight is too dimmed to see anything at night, is it real IRL?

 

Matt never used the headlights. He only had the white marker lights on.

 

I‘m not familiar with the real route, but if 612s ran RE3s, then I hope for a timetable update close to release like the meatier (freight) timetable DRA got. As everyone has already said, 10 services are somewhat disappointing even if apparently realistic.

 

Oh, thanks for the information.

 

They have a route like this for Britin, Germany, Switzerland, and Canada (via passenger, freight, and a scenic (ish) route). Now they just need one for the United States.

 

Will it might be added in an update then?

 

Just finished watching the stream (wasn't able to catch itl live), and I am extremely impressed. All the things I care about seem OK, my only complaint is the lack of BR612, it seems like a train that I won't use too much with only 10 services in only 1 route, which is a shame. Hopefully it will get some RE3 services, if those are realistic. Great to see that I can use the G6 though.

I also have to point out that the lack of EBuLa is a big shame, but I'm sure the community will fix that, the current workaround for GNT is okay I guess, but hopefully it's a temporary solution. Also not having the Meissen catenary is not great, but that's a TSW problem rather than this particular route (like EBuLa).

The route is fantastic, the scenery is great, and especially the distant scenery really sets this route apart from older releases such as RSN and MSB, on that note another slow and scenic route RSN style was really overdue IMO, especially after this whole rush hour/commuter focus. I am sure it's going to be an incredible amount of fun for freight as well, with all those speed limit changes and gradients, hopefully the freight timetable will do the route justice, I am not expecting another RSN but hopefully something more interesting than the pure A-B runs on BRD with both the 185 and 363. The lighting seems pretty good as well from the little we have seen.

The BR612 itself seems fantastic, finally we get a german train with the "stepped throttle", and good european horns, and finally a tilting train, which is just fantastic.

The BR185.6 however is not all that good, I wasn't really able to tell if it was a "BRD spec" (GPR selector, new audio and physics) or a slight modification of the BR185.2, certainly the sound didn't seem the BRD one (but it had the removable reverser). However while the BR185.6 might not be the best I am extremely happy that Railpool was so supportive and helpful, if that means that future RP locos will be TGV-like quality I can't wait for future RP rolling stock.

 

Not at all Joe, I wasn’t aiming my negativity at anyone personally, I was aware that you had been working on the timetable from when you were discussing it in another thread.

Your work goes above and beyond, in many cases, my concern is mainly that such a huge task is seemingly left to a small team (maybe even just yourself?), the failing here I’m sure isn’t down to you, but a larger issue with DTG, I’m not really sure what happens behind the scenes but I definitely don’t want to make you feel like I’m blaming you personally, or anyone on the team, I’m sure the book stops much further up.

I do hope you can get those 12 services in for us, aswell as some RE3’s, however I wouldn’t want them at the cost of you having to work in your own time, that is DTG’s responsibility as a company, not just for one or two people.

 

I love how they get all of the ai only trains correct.(unlike some other routes).

 

The DB 612 DMU accelerates a lot differently than to DMUs we have in the U.K., is that prototypical in German DMUs? The tilting looks fun and I like the rollercoaster feel of the route with its grades, especially when freight is involved.

 

Thank you for acting so quickly, Joe! You are truly the best.
Regarding the RE3 services/substitutions for the 612: If you are able to implement that, please don’t forget to enable it for the Gen 8 consoles! There should be no negative impact on memory since the 612 is already loaded in anyways.
Thank you again for your dedication!

 

The 185.5 IRL is really loud inside the cab. Someone shared a real cab youtube video sometime ago when someone asked, and the "electric" noise inside the cab is insane.

 

The problem with the 612 not subbing onto other routes is not the substitution tag per se. The problematic thing is the formation. The 612 is a 2-car formation whilst most of the EMU formations in germany are either 3 or 4 cars so subbing that in wouldnt work (although irl you could that).

 

It's okay, we don't blame you, its already great that you are helping us the fans by putting in more real-time tables, and we really appreciated what you are doing for us. Hopefully, TrainSim-Matt Matt and the team also realize this before putting out the updated timetable before release. Keep up the amazing work

 

Like Lauda you say!
It's a Ferrari! It's a .....

 

No need to apologise, as they say to err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer.

 

Is that something that might even happen before release or is that out of scope and will happen sometime after release (if at all)?

What about the timings when it runs RE3? Won't you be very early at many stations? But well if the timetable is planned for the 143 consist it owuld be like that in reality too.

 

About that: For me the Wikipedia article sounds like the RE 3 hat 612s regularly until the end of 2014 and did some rare services until June 2016. Could you check that again maybe?

Edit:
I did some more research: Here is an old version of the Wikipedia article about train services in Bavaria. https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Liste_der_SPNV-Linien_in_Bayern&oldid=136729096
It's from 2014 and still states the RE 3 to run with the 612.
Is the current RE 3 timetable even achieveable with the 143? Or are the timings generated anyway?

 

That is also what I remember, the transition started in 2013/14, until then RE3 was 612 only.

 

That’s ok Joe we all make mistakes