Road Map Train Sim World 2 - Roadmap Update 11/01/2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    The beginning of the article was promising, but then it was a letdown after a letdown.

    The new format is very confusing and very cluttered with large pictures WITH HUGE TEXT and then a few bullet points with barebones information.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but your intention with the roadmap additions into the future are as follows:
    1. "2000s US route" added to roadmap in January
    2. "Announcing New York - Los Angeles" article in let's say April
    3. Release in May

    If this is the intention, it is incredibly hard to discern from the article. I had to read it several times to arrive at this conclusion. The immediate reaction was "roadmap is going to be useless since there won't be anything new"

    If this is the intention, adding something NEW and vague to the roadmap would be a step in the right direction.
    Everything on the roadmap was already announced. When I was reading the article, I was excited there are going to be some additions to the list to see what to look for and what to save for. The new format will most likely push a lot of people to the "wait until on sale" model since they won't be able to properly plan their savings.

    Next, there are the cancellations.
    I don't use the Livery designer, but cutting the improvements to the Scenario planner stings. The current implementation is barebones and leaves much to be desired. Without faffing around, you can't even change the weather for frack's sake. That should be a basic feature and it's missing!

    Will you at least address why was the DB BR 232 quietly dropped?
     
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  2. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    What if:

    They realise that we know that they know that we know that they know that we know..........their salary is coming from our pockets.
     
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  3. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Because that is the only one that was actually a roadmap of any sort. As soon as it became a fortnightly update it ceased being a roadmap and just became a production schedule, a really really unreliable one.

    Honestly, save re-formatting it, just do a new roadmap every 6 months, and in the meantime do a forum post or article from time to time to highlight something interesting being worked on.

    What is funny is how people think the problem is DTG are not giving them enough information, when the reality is the opposite, DTG try too hard and end up publicly displaying how boring and slow game development actually is because they are giving out too much. Fortnightly updates just serve to demonstrate how slow things are, how little changes, and then compounded with frequent changes to the format of the 'roadmap' which only re-orders the same info and annoys people who think they're being denied some wondrous amazing new things.
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not... :(
     
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  5. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Dislike the layout, can't skim read it to see what interests you most and where they are at.

    As for the "suspension" of scenario planner 2.0 I am completely and utterly speechless.

    Creation centre moving to core is absolutely ridiculous as well. I have zero interest in it but going to have it force on me anyway? Talk about a waste of disk space.

    To say I am not impressed with the whole roadmap and the direction of the game it self is an understatement
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    It's the endless cycle of slowly becoming completely insane lol.........

    The joke is i was always completely insane so maybe I'm slowly becoming smarter and seeing the truth and we really are in the matrix........
     
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  8. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    To my eyes, they're clearly floundering, at the very least in the communications department. They're reactive, not proactive, and there appears to be an internal faction fight between those who want to announce early, even if only gradual details, and those who want to build drama and hype by multimedia announcements when it's nearly finished. I suspect it's equally frustrating for a lot of people at DTG.

    FWIW, I want to know what routes and locos are coming as early as possible. That peaks my interest, and I'm mature enough to know that there will be delays and inevitable changes. But not telling us until the last minute? You're sacrificing all that hype and, yes, opportunities for course correction when you see the community reaction.

    In my view, they need to have a proper communication strategy and stop changing road map formats every few months. It's not 'nuanced' and 'listening to our customer feedback', it just gives the impression they're making all this up as they go along. It reminds me of the dying Terminator in Terminator 2, going through all his previous iterations trying to find one that will help him survive. You guys have produced an awesome game, but it's getting to be death by a thousand cuts. Take a breath, hire some consultants, discuss their recommendations, and chart a course. Preferably on a vessel with an actual working rudder.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Beats them charging money for it.
     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if this could be arranged for tonight’s live stream???? Even without the slapstick punishment for potentially messing us about a bit, it is going to be interesting viewing. I hope Moggy has plenty of ice cream to keep him cool while dealing with the chat.
     
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  11. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, as long the content keeps improving and shows the expected quality i really dont mind the change of the roadmap.
     
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  12. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    Let us go back to the very first roadmap. It told us what was where, what was being worked on and showed us which bug reports were trying to be fixed. It didn't tell us when it would going to release but told you exactly what was being worked on. It didn't matter how long it took. As soon as they had got licensing and were actively working on it, we would know.
    Fast forward to 2022, the roadmap no longer has bug reports, they were removed a year ago. Which ones are being worked on. Are they on the planet cuckoo? Are they about to be released? We are no longer being told about new routes until they are pretty much ready to release. We don't where things are. Are they being planned, having work done on them, are the being tested? It's a joke. Are we now going to see routes removed because they are not going to get released soon only for them to appear. That seems to be the case with tsg's 232. Revert back to the original style. Much better. A transparent approach will keep the community on side
     
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  13. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree on this, you want creatation centre, pay for it, if have zero interest in it dont pay for it.
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If you don't want to use it, don't use it. Has anyone ever complained about Forza "forcing" a paint shop on them?
     
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  15. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Lots of happy campers today! LOL no wonder Sam is on the stream tonight.
     
  16. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    It's the 1st roadmap that didn't get me interested in reading it. Maybe there shouldn't be a new roadmap published every 2 weeks as an article if there is nothing new to share, but simply just a regular Q&A live stream, where there is some talk about what's confirmed being currently worked on, and as always the majority of the asked questions left unanswered. Other games with ongoing developments tend to publish roadmaps yearly and not fortnightly.

    No Polish routes announced since the beginning of any Train Sim World / Train Simulator / Railworks... But I'm not complaining. I get to drive on routes and trains that I don't get to see here every day.

    (However, I'd much prefer something much more far away from my home announced, like in Australia, Japan, New Zealand / the other side of the world.)
     
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  17. BAKERLOOLINE

    BAKERLOOLINE New Member

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    Well... A new roadmap. Its much more vague and harder to read. Nothing new was really added and now I have no idea what actually good routes are coming out soon. Also where is any uk content. Having maybe the only uk route releasing for maybe 2 months a steam route isnt fun. By the time that steam route is out they will have churned out 3-4 random us german routes that are rushed.

    Please use the old format
     
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  18. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    I think 1950-1990 can easily be narrowed down to before 1968, as it would be unusual to do a preserved railway set in the past. This would make the first Spirit of Steam route quite interesting as it could easily integrate many of the diesel locomotives during the transition period from steam to diesel, especially if it is in the 1960s when BR Rail Blue began to be introduced.
     
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  19. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt know what Forza do or doesnt do and I really dont care. What I do care about they are cutting development costs by "suspending" updates which would interest me and then spending time on doing a free update which I have no interest in, when they could be charging for creatation centre and spending the money made from it on creating a functional scenario planner.
     
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  20. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    Really not a fan of this new roadmap layout. Me personally I just want to know what's being worked on and where is it in the pipe line. I didn't see the issue of keeping headers like in production, in planning, to me that made a lot more sense than what we have now. I'm not keen on the code thing either.
     
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  21. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I like this new layout, but I guess I won't be happy for too long :D
     
  22. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Hold on and take a step back. Dtg is not cancelling the loco dlc (br232) of a third party dev, 2 days before release of a potential route this loco can run. The ludmilla can still be seen in chemnitz.
     
  23. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Well considering Matt has already told us that a UK route is due out before the Harlem Line, youve already broken the below seeing as no UK route is listed on the road map even vaguely, so you'll excuse us if we dont beleive a single word on the road map.

    "We’ll also list out projects that are still lacking final details or scope; if we know we’re making a US route set in the early 2000s we’ll add it to the Roadmap, but may well keep the identity of that route vague until it has been announced more fully."
     
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  24. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I am Dutch and I am definitely annoyed there was no Dutch route during the last 15 years from DTG. So I have no idea why you are complaining.
     
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  25. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Back to ts time didnt christrains do a lot of dutch and netherlande content?

    Have his content in mind as very good qualitywise. No clue about his plans for tsw.
     
  26. LightningPORTO

    LightningPORTO Member

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    I have never done this, don't really know if this is the place, but here it goes:

    Can you comment on the state for external hardware implementations? I'm talking about generic joysticks. I would love to use my arsenal in TSW2, just to approximate it even more to a simulator.

    I would even pay if this "feature" was delivered as a DLC.
     
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  27. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Chris Longhurst is NOT DTG, he did loco models and some station assets and is very valuable for Dutch train sim enthusiasts.. Dutch routes were developed by Dutch community members. DTG left this market and if I understand what Matt said during the End of Year Q&A, it will be unlikely DTG will develop anything for other countries than the UK, Germany and USA.
     
  28. owenroser19

    owenroser19 Well-Known Member

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    Oh my life chill out, just because they left it for a few months doesnt mean they've 'completely abandoned the UK scene'
     
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  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    If you like external hardware check out a raildriver. There is a masterlist (thread), which locos are already supported. I guess most of them, but not sure.
     
  30. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Creator's Club and the Expansion Pack were coming already. Doesn't matter if they split or not, the suspension of the 2.0's would have been announced regardless, most likely.

    I'm desperate for a LD2.0 however I can wait, and I'm sure many people can.
     
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  31. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Saw few of your route documentations. Nice and impressive work. Must have taken quite some time.
     
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  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Is it "cutting development costs?" Or is it rather putting the project on hold until sharing is finalized, to make sure the new versions are compatible?

    Also: charging extra for Creators' Club would be fatal. Any community-content service depends absolutely on having a critical mass of participants.
     
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  33. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    Why are new routes being left out of the roadmap? What do you mean by "...Instead each new add-on will be announced independently so that it doesn’t simply get buried among everything else we’re working on."
    I never had an impression anything was buried or forgotten by us or by you, the developers? The way I understand it you will now announce routes much closer to release date on a separate channel (why though? How is decentralizing communication going to help getting a clear understanding of what's coming), probably limiting the timeframe for any comments players may have on that route. And using codes for upcoming content for us to decipher like some mystery game isn't really projecting the idea of insight.
    All in all, every new roadmap format seems to be less and less forthcoming.
     
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Jeez, it's not like they're encrypted using an Enigma machine. The codes are very easy to interpret, for anyone who can be bothered to take five minutes to learn them.
     
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  35. RailFan97

    RailFan97 Active Member

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    I recognise it must be challenging for DTG as every player will have different preferences about what content they want to see added to the game. Personally I only really enjoy playing modern British routes with either EMUs or DMUs, but I recognise other people will want the complete opposite. This means I really only buy one or two add-ons per year, which can't be a sustainable business model for DTG.

    In my opinion DTG needs to re-set and decide what it wants to do and nail that, rather than trying to spread itself too thin by building routes in multiple countries and across several eras. Their main problem at the moment seems to be how long it takes to build routes. They spend months in development only to be released with bugs.

    Today's Roadmap has left me thinking that DTG will leave the development of other UK routes to JustTrains and Rivet while they work on Spirit of Steam, which may be a good idea if it prevents a repeat of the problems seen with the Rush Hour release.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  36. Schnitzla

    Schnitzla Member

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    Quite disappointed to see the "new" Roadmap.
    Scenerio planner 2.0 gone, BR 232 gone, Editor gone years ago.
    Is DTG becoming a money pit for arcade console players?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  37. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    Not my point. I did not saying dtg had cancelled it. I was saying that it looks like dtg has taken it off because it won't be finished soon but will put it back on on a later date
     
  38. jonathanp

    jonathanp New Member

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    So in summary:
    • It's awful
    • I hate it
    • I'm dissapointed
    • Not a fan
    • Very confusing
    • RIP any detail
    • really disheartening
    • Wow....you managed to disappoint us once again....good job(not)
    • What a total and utter shower
    • There isn't enough information
    • Your're British, why haven't you fulfilled your patriotic duty to release a UK route?
    • I don't believe a single word on this road map
    • INSANELY frustrating
    • really despair and I’m quite frankly losing all enthusiasm. Fed up with it all.
    • DTG staff twirling their mustachios and cackling evilly.
    • DTG management should be physically assaulted in a vaguely humurous way
    So just like every thread on this forum then...
    I am completely baffled by this. The entire content of this forum seems to consist entirely of moaning and complaints. Why do you all waste your time on something you all hate so much?
     
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  39. Schnitzla

    Schnitzla Member

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    It's called "feedback".
     
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  40. owenroser19

    owenroser19 Well-Known Member

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    But West Cornwall was terrible. Poor scenary and bad sounds on the 150.
     
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  41. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    If you read 99% of my posts you'd see that I rarely complain or moan, so the fact that I (and others like me) arent happy with this should show exactly how bad this is. But you do you.
     
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  42. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Several people have said if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Sadly, when it is broke, DTG are all too often are slow to fix it.
     
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  43. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    I'm fed up with people assuming people on console automatically are arcade players. I play on console and play as a sim. Yes, admittedly i do like riding as a passenger. But then I will take control at the terminus. If I could afford a gaming pc, a raildriver and other items i would. Console is not full of arcade players. It is a spectrum, just like for example the forza series(sorry to use this example again) some love the reward of driving the ice with all systems on. Some just like the relaxing feel of driving a game. There are probably a lot of arcade like players on epic. It was free and encouraged new players to the game. Were most of these people hardcore simmers? Unlikely
     
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  44. dalekjimster#9505

    dalekjimster#9505 New Member

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    I just wish you could edit the GWR HST 125, the GW Class 166 and the more British Mainlines would be released either the West Coast Main Line with the avanti west coast class 390 pendolino and/or the East Coast Main Line with the Class 91 and HST 125 LNER Livery.
     
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  45. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    I too was disappointed that there was no uk routes. But patriotic duty!. Stretching it a bit too far. Imagine places like Sweden. Has never got a single route in tsw or ts. Be patient. It will come in time.
     
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  46. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    What’s the arcade bit about?
     
  47. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Not really sure what to make of the new layout of the road map to be honest.

    Hentis
     
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  48. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    I've seen lots of people complaining about DTG not releasing any UK content or putting it on the roadmap
    But let's not forget we got Brighton mainline that was pretty big and exiting with over 900 services
    Then we got the 313 which I thought was excellent
    Then we got west Cornwall local with a new train the 150 and then the freight that came with it
    And this was pretty much back to back
    We didn't have to wait longer Then 2 weeks for each
    With BML and the 313 coming out at both ends of October and WCL coming out in November
    I get we are upset but how some of you are acting is like there not going to make a UK route ever again
    I understand we want to at least see something from the UK in planning but less we forget were getting steam which obviously everyone born after 1990s is exited for:):D
     
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  49. DeJaPa

    DeJaPa Member

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    I've said it once and I'll say it again... DTG can never get a win from some people;

    'We demand change!'
    DTG applies changes, and explains why, how and what.
    'We hate these changes we like the old better!'

    SMH

    I hope for those who it never quite seems to be enough, that they realize that not every other developer shares the amount of information or interaction with its community like DTG does.
     
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  50. phillip.good

    phillip.good Well-Known Member

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    For lawd’s sake take 5 and get a grip…. The world has not just ended…. Things change; some times for better, some times for worse but the changes made have not been made to upset you all personally.

    It’s not pretty but that’s what happens when you try and present a business in a linear one page format….

    …I’ll get me coat
     
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