PC Route Mergers In 2022 Lets Build A Network….

Oi! Friendly Fire!

 

I seem to get this quote a lot 'From the seventh to the tenth centuries Edinburgh was part of the Anglian Kingdom of Northumbria'. England's border did use to be further North than Today even in Roman times with the Antonine Wall.

 

Well, I'm not sure it was "England" in Roman times, since the Angles were still in Schleswig-Holstein. And there certainly was no "Scotland", since the Scotti were still in Ireland!

 

Yeah, that's right I meant 'as well as' Anglo-Saxon times but also in Roman times. It was Britannia then I think. (not GB). My Ancestors were Angles, there is a village in Norfolk with our Surname and a Scottish version of our name, but won't bore anyone with that.

 

Interesting: there's a village in Norfolk with my surname as well- but acc. to family tradition our immigrant ancestor was from Scotland.....

 

The whole ECML is 393 MI. The bundle is supposed to makeup the whole line and if purchased users can choose which one of those to play.

 

Defiantly agree, watching them all again at the moment

It's not meant as friendly fire. It's great how Mark is making fun of everyone and they won't realise that he is. It's just funny (not in the good way) as to how true it is, I'm from England but moved to Scotland (abandoned it for the better side of the border to be correct, opinion don't start drama people) and almost no one I went to school understood why the Scottish didn't like them while talking exactly how Mark is in that part of the video.

 

Well - the Romans referred to the Welsh as the Britons - the Welsh never did. And by the way, there are still legal arguments that Berwick still belongs to Scotland

 

Not by the people of Berwick there isn't as they chose to stay in England but Scotland is not a sovereign nation so we are all part of GB/UK so one great happy family eh?

 

Weirdly, the status of Berwick was so confused that declarations of war at one time used to read "A state of war exists between Enemykingdom and England, Scotland, Ireland, and Berwick-upon-Tweed." In fact - bizarre history factoid - since the peace treaty that ended the Crimean War failed to mention Berwick, the town was technically at war with Russia until 1961, when Berwick declared a formal end to hostilities.

 

They never referred to themselves as "Welsh" either.

 

"They never referred to themselves as "Welsh" either"
Correct - Cymry, since around 6th century - Welsh was what the Anglo-Saxons called them - used for any ethnic outsider.

 

Yes, although by the late A-S period "Wealas" alone usually meant the Welsh, whereas they used Cernwealas for the Cornish and Francwealas for the French. Scandinavians however, of whatever origin, were uniformly Danas, Danes.

 

Wealas meant 'Foreigner' didn't it and referred to 'Cernwealas' as such as well as Wales no?

 

Yes- and other forms as well. The Romans were "Rumwealas," for example. But The A-S had lived for so long alongside the Britons/Cymry/Welsh that in ordinary speech, 'Wealas' alone simply meant the most usual type of foreigner one was likely to encounter.

 

True. It was separated in 3 kingdoms: mercia, Northumbria and wessex. Why we needed 3 Kings for one small country, who knows

 

I still think one of the first networks/mergers we would get would be coming out of London.

 

Rather more than 3: East Anglia, Mercia, Wessex, Kent, Deira, Bernicia, Lindsey, Hwicce, and Sussex were all kingdoms at one time or another. And that's not counting Jorvik, Dal Riada, Strathclyde, Cornwall or the various Welsh prinicpalities.

It wasn't, at the time, "one small country," but rather "one big (by their standards) island filled with multiple tribes and warlords" - some German, some British (Welsh/Cornish), some Pictish, some Irish. It didn't become "one small country" until either (pick one) Alfred the Great proclaimed himself Rex Anglosaxonum, Wessex including the half of Mercia that Alfred annexed being the only non-Danish occupied English kingdom, or Alfred's grandson Athelstan who reconquered the Danelaw and created "England" more or less as it has been ever since.

 

For anyone that is interested, I have found this online. Stake your claim on the area you would like. It's surprised me actually how complex it is here.

 

I always thought it was the 7 kingdoms. For me Alfred saved the Angles and Saxons his Daughter AethelFlaed (lady of the mercians) was instrumental in laying down the foundations for England and fighting off the Norse and Danes who were frightened of her, they would lay down their weapons rather than fight her. She is really understated imo. Then Athelstan who not only secured England but made Scotland and Wales submit much more to it but a fascinating part of History imo.

 

Wow, where did you find this? is there a website to it?

 

the up to date ones are here https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/rail-maps.aspx

 

The "Heptarchy" was an early Victorian invention, stemming from a misreading of Bede; the number of kingdoms shifted, often, but over time got lower on average as the strong kingdoms absorbed the weak ones- and then the Danes came.

 

Here's the National Rail Large Map based on that only ECW & BML can be merged at two places Wivelsfield & Brighton. For the German Routes RRO RSN merged via Hagen Gbf & bypass track Hagen Hbf. Best value is merging RRO RSN HRR if the missing Bochum-Hagen/ Dortmund Hbf Line via Hagen Vorhalle & Witten Hbf is made. If Just Trains Makes Chiltern Main Line London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill for TSW 2 that can be linked to GWE if the Missing Reading to Banbury line via Didcot Parkway is built.

 

If the TSW brand wants to have a future (video above) otherwise it is good only to try an metropolitan experience. It does not make sense and it is not immersive to drive an Intercity (or High Speed) train for journeys of 60km. But even the LGV Marseille-Avignon (95Km) makes no sense if you don't go as far as Lyon, at least. The title is now mature (2017-2022) it is time to look forward. It is time to design the routes as sections (Dlc 1, 2, 3, 4) with the idea of connecting them in the future, in a single complete route. Purely personal opinion, of course.

In Train Simulator it is already a reality

Germany: Combine - Bayerischen Maximiliansbahn - RSSLO
Austria: 1) Combine - Südbahn - RSSLO 2) Combine - Western Austria - RSSLO

 

Now that’s exactly where TSW falls down. A proper journey where you’re going somewhere. 3hr 57-9 in you can see weather transitions too.

 

As this point, with the exception of it being nice to able to run trains north from Lewes (or south through Lewes), from what I understand the (and can imagine) the potential technical problems (and costs) of doing this "retrospectively" would vastly to outweigh the positives (and extra income). Dovetail are both a commercial company and have finite resources. I cannot see the sense in them spending effort on something that will bring limited (financial) reward.

That said I cannot see why any planned future routes that linked in with existing routes could not have the ability to merge included in the design requirement from Day 1?

For existing routes I'd much rather they spend time on making better use of what there is already, such as the LGV which has all kinds of yards and sidings that are not used but could be, and where it would not be rocket science to add some non-TGV stock.

Similarly extending an existing route (rather than merging with another) must be relatively easy to do (after all they did do this with Dresden/Reisa) - and also more commercial as people would have to buy the base route before getting the extension.

 

Although I am generally sensitive to the business and practical realities of DTG's operations, and accordingly unreceptive to a lot of players' pie-in-the-sky demands, here I am inclined to disagree with you. Making the merger would be a matter of a) a new joint timetable- which would be the existing BML timetable with ECW made to conform to it (i.e. the RL 2019 timetable), and b) the Wivelsfield-Lewes connector, which is only about 10 miles with three simple stations. That isn't a gigantic amount of work, and probably could be sold for around 8 quid

 

I still can't believe we still only get a short route, hopefully, this will be the year the team step up and really improve the FPS along with train sound, realistic night mode, in-cab announcement and hopefully a longer route

 

I initially thought ECW and BML would have made a good merger being adjacent but it’s evident it’s not as productive. I think the key here is to find those routes that offer, connectivity, length and variety. I do wonder whether a passenger line with a couple Orr decent freight branches or such like would be good. The German dlcs seem to find a good blend of both. A uk equivalent but modular would be nice

 

Has anyone else spotted that #1F09, departing Seaford at 06:51 and arriving at Lewes at 07:08 on East Coastway is the same service as the #1F09 that departs Wivelsfield at 07:33, arriving London Victoria on London Commuter? 25 minutes to travel between Lewes and Wivelsfield seems reasonable.

It's almost as if a line linking the two routes was planned at one point but was not taken forward. That or maybe the service was lifted from a real timetable.

I think its the only service on the two routes that matches up - nothing going the other way seems to work.

Even so it does mean seem you can almost drive from a service from Seaford to Victoria if you switch routes after arriving at Lewes.

 

Very interesting and if they did that one can Purchase TSW2 City to Coast bundle made up of BML and ECW. For German routes Nahverkehr Hagen combined RRO RSN since there's no Köln Wuppertal Line and Hagen-Bochum/Dortmund lines to form Rhein-Ruhr network.

 

I'm not 100% sure if they are lifted from the real time table. Joe would be the best person to ask that who created them. Seeing his attention to detail and awesome work I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I think we will begin to get a step closer to mergers or longer routes. Whilst we're frequently told it's not on the roadmap and not being worked on as yet I'd imagine there's enough noise here on it to facilitate the "how could we?" , "What could this look like?" "Can we achieve this?" discussions at some level.

 

Like the idea, but that name is going to be very confusing as the train operator c2c (Capital 2 Coast or City to Coast) exists which runs trains in South Essex.

 

#1F09 is a real oddity. On BML it is the only service that goes from Wivelsfield to London Victoria, whereas there are quite a few that go the other way (never to return...!). It is also the only passenger service on ECW that is booked for Victoria via Lewes.

I suspect that a whole raft of services from Seaford (and Eastbourne?) to Victoria via Wivelsfield were dropped for some reason. I can see why this might have happened on BML - perhaps an overcrowded timetable? - but there was surely room to have them on ECW? And those BML services could surely be added to ECW without any major problems?

How does one ask Joe about such things?

 

AIUI, the Brighton Main Line timetable is very much based on the real one. I don't know if that's the case with East Coastway, although it does have the right feel so it may be. It also may have been brought more in line with the new timetable released with the 313. Certainly it includes a fair number of AI trains to Victoria, according to the platform PIS.

As for the Wivelsfield connector_ just because services aren't scheduled to stop at Wivelsfield, doesn't mean they don't take that route. I would imagine that more than a few Victoria-Lewes and London Bridge-Lewes 1-headcode trains go that way without halting at the whistlestop stations. In fact, it makes little sense for London services to Eastbourne and Hastings to go via Brighton, where they would have to reverse.

 

So what should the name be for combined BML ECW via Wivelsfield bundle be? The reason why I went with City to Coast it's due to Brighton being located on the English Channel coast London Thames side. Nahverkehr Rhein-Ruhr if RRO RSN HRR via Hagen Vorhalle line exists while the Western End of RRO connects to Köln Duisburg Line at Düsseldorf Hbf basically giving SKA trains options to run Aachen Rothe Erde to Finnentrop trips requires 2nd locomotivefor the steep ramp Hochdahl Wuppertal Steinbeck. First option SKA Düsseldorf Wuppertal Hagen Gbf Finnentrop avoids Rbf Hagen Vorhalle while Option 2 SKA Köln Düsseldorf Duisburg Essen Bochum HRR then the New Line Bochum-Hagen/Dortmund gives access to Hagen Vorhalle flatter ground but longer.
This would be correct because freight trains need to be reassembled at Hagen Vorhalle for Finnentrop. By following another freight train coming in at Mülheim an Der Ruhr Styrum junction for Hollandstrecke Duisburg-Oberhausen-Arnhem.

 

Don't forget though Southampton, Portsmouth, Bognor Regis, Littlehampton, Eastbourne, Hastings and Ore are also on the Channel Coast.

 

So you mean combining ECW extended to Hastings with Westcoastway & BML and Thank you for telling me about that

 

Extend ECW to Hastings, and then call Hastings-London the "Conqueror's March"?

 

For me route extension packs have to come before networking 2 routes together, for me ECW to Hastings is a no brainer, but I'd also like to see the line from Lewes to Wivelsfield included in any ECW extension.

Other possible realistic (IMO) extensions are

BS - 2 Options here either Readville to Mansifeld via the Foxboro loop or Provident to Wickford Junction
Dresden Riesa - The full S2 line but not to the Airport, but in the other direction to Pirna - would also extend the S1 services as well.
GWE - Heathrow branch & Greenford Branch,

 

S1s have Bad Schandau & Schöna. Why not end that at Bad Schandau where you can use the yard there to ECS S1 rather then running ECS to Meißen Triebischtal

 

Its the lack of northbound services that is odd.

Any train going up or down the Wivelsfield line to Lewes on BIM would effectively terminate at or start from Wivelsfield, as far as the game is concerned. They will therefore appear on https://smtimetables.herokuapp.com/location/572. As you see there are 22 southbound services terminating as "arrivals" at Wivelsfield (but actually bound for the connector), but only one northbound "departure" (that has "come from" the connector).

 

Or 'The Bastard's March'

 

Matt has declared, flat out, that route extensions are not going to happen. No way, no how.

Route merging, on the other hand, is on his list of "definitely want to do someday"

 

For me the 2 go hand in hand, for example ECW & BML merger would be incomplete without the link between Lewes & Wivelsfield being included. In reality theres more cross DLC traffic via this link then at Brighton.

 

The Wivelsfield connector would have to be made in order for the merger to happen, that is true. But don't expect a "Wivelsfield route extension" as a separate DLC. I would expect, assuming ex hypothesi that a BML-ECW merger were in the cards, that the connector would be included as part of the Route Merge DLC.

(Honestly, I'm surprised it wasn't included in BML. It may have been intended but dropped because time was running short, like the airport branch in DRA and Track 3 in SHH; delayed as BML's release was, it's obvious the Reigate branch was made in a tearing hurry.)

 

How about Riesa-Dresden with Tharandter Rampe and RRO RSN for the German routes. First is linked at Dresden Hbf 2nd Hagen Gbf link in real life Hagen Vorhalle

 

Theres a handful of freight services between Riesa Dredenn & Tharandter Rampe, AFIK theres no continuation of any passenger services at Dresden (If there where it would invoive a reversal so we'd still get no continued service linking the 2). I dont recall any of the RRO or RSN continuing across the 2, so again would be freight only, unless theres any IC or ICE services which continue along from Hagen?

 

I've found the missing northbound services that use the connector from Lewes to Wivelsfield! There are a number of xx02 departures from Wivelsfield to Haywards Heath, arriving at xx06 and then forming the front of the xx14 from Haywards Heath to Victoria on arrival at HH, the back half coming up from at a guess the Littlehampton branch.

The xx02s depart from Platform 2 at Wivelsfield (despite the departure boards saying Platform 1), and are (for some reason) not driveable so do not appear in the timetables.