I was thinking this morning, Matt mentioned that route development hasn’t really started. Whilst this hasn’t been requested I thought it would be a nice idea to build up a thread of pictures or videos from the route that the team can peruse if they wish. Route info only please, not loco There’s always threads saying “xxx” is missing so perhaps it would be good to highlight anything early doors. Couple of caveats, where possible be nice and credit source This thread is unofficial and there is no guarantee things will appear in route This thread is to share stories or pics of route only and to wet our whistles. Please ensure anything is represented and supported as 1958 I look forward to seeing what old pictures people have tucked under the bed (choose the right shoebox gents )
Caveat would be since the route is set in 1958, all reference materials need to be of that era. As was pointed out in the stream concerning route appearance, a lot of change was taking place. I thought it was interesting the discussion over the three mast signal, and the research that was conducted to represent it correctly, and further research finding in the time frame, the signal mast were still present but the heads removed. I was total impressed with the level of detail represented just by the amount of signaling assets involved and the sheer amount of track work for the various engine sheds etc to be included beyond the route itself.
Im sure anything +/- 2 years will help them. For example they may only so far have a reference of X location in 1956. If the community shows the same location in 1957 with details missing/changed then it will assist. Also you've got to remember when going back so long there will be instances of contradictions between sources, usually because someone has missed categorised it or assumed the wrong date. For example because ref A shows the signal arms removed in June 1958 it's entirely possible that B, C shows them present in Aug 1958.
I'd thought about how a thread like this would be good, so thanks for that. However, I'd imagined it as a thread for us. It had occurred to me how as soon as they preview the route there will be a bunch of people all saying, "Actually, this minor detail wasn't like that..." so it is a good idea to get it in early you're right. I'll be watching this thread anyway, as I love detail.
The most important thing is to be sure that you can clearly date any image - don't guess. If the image is not dated by its owner then it goes in to a pile of images that you can use along side others that are dated and show equivalent detail but it becomes a hazardous game of spot the difference that can lead you down the wrong path if you're not careful The exact date does make a big difference too - 1958 to 1960 sees continued wide modernisation along the route. We've used some 1960 documentation and images but carefully "backdated" to understand what has happened in the intervening couple of years. Of course some educated guesswork is involved but as I say - don't underestimate the necessity to know the date of a document or photo. We have collected an awful lot of images though so i'm confident the team have amassed sufficient research to do the route accurate justice Be nice to see some images here from people if only for some pointers for discussion or any questions they may raise that i can get input on from the team to feed back here as well.
Also worth stating, never entirely trust the date someone has given a picture, there is every chance that it was entered incorrectly or the date just made up. This occurred in another thread about West Cornwall Line where a photo was posted but the date blatantly didn't match the photograph and was most likely the website the image was sourced from posting the wrong date.
Here’s the first I’ve found whilst learning about the route, link below too for credit and date verification. Crewe station with first signs of electrification https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2203346
Super nice photo, makes me want the route even more now and a makes me want a 4MT even more now, add-on DTG?
It’s like the train is gen 8 consoles and the electrification gen 9. Look how that ended up I’ll see what else I can find
In addition to pictorial references, the following would both be of use now and possibly in the future: Working Timetables (using the LMS Sectional Appendix splits): Carnforth to Weaver Junction and Branches Liverpool and Ditton to Springs Branch, and Manchester (Exchange), and Branches Liverpool to Crewe and Branches. Carriage Working Notices Crewe and Lime Street Shunting and Trip Notices, Speke and Edge Hill sheds . If anyone can find something like that, then we can plug it into both gameplay and the signalling. Thanks!
I have a couple of Midland region working timetables I will see if I have one covering this route. For some reason the BR LMR ones seem to be like gold dust compared to WR ones and are often expensive, plus they were split into passenger and freight ones at a time when the WR ones were still combined.
