Liverpool-crewe 1958 Is The First Steam Route

A grab from the Bossman manual for the 8F in Train Simulator. All can be operated by the mouse or keyboard.

 

hehe that are a lot of things to control
makes me wonder if there will be an easy drive mode for steam trains
or a perfect tutorial with all the steps
or else everyone needs to study the manual for some time :P

 

Well I don't think anything is confirmed yet and although it would be disappointing if some of the controls don't work, it is still a WIP I think.
On TS1 there's an easy mode for most locos (especially those by DTG) and I think Matt wants the same in TSW2. Also the autofireman that Matt talked about in the stream will handle a bunch of the controls (injectors, firebox and anything with water in the name presumably other than the waterscoop, which isn't likely to be needed very often on this route as it is only needed when the tender water gets low and this route may not have water troughs).

 

Had a quick look on Steam for the TS 8F but can’t see it listed. Any idea how it’s described?

 

OldVern It is by BMG if that helps. Was on offer (40% off) this weekend, as was their Jub.

 

It's in the Pro Range. A bit more from the manual which shows they could/may provide varying levels of difficulty.

4.16 Driver & Fireman Assistants
Using the headlights button on the HUD it is possible to switch on various
assistance systems which help the player control the loco.
Mode Number Mode Description
1 Automatic fireman.
2
Automatic fireman, water trimmer assistance and boiler warning
indications.
3
Automatic fireman, water trimmer assistance, boiler warning
indications water level alarms.
4
Automatic fireman, water trimmer assistance, boiler warning
indications water level control.
5
Automatic fireman, F4 HUD now disables the reverser lock and
opens small ejector.

 

Thing is, the TS1 8F looks like a great product (I bought it at the weekend after the announcement), but it is a different product by a different developer for a different simulator.
BMG are helping DTG, but this is a DTG's baby I think. A closer comparison would seem to be with Riviera in the 50s for example. On that, there is an Expert/Legacy mode. Here's a description from the Riviera In the 50s manual: "The steam locomotives included with this route have both “Expert” and “Legacy” modes. Legacy mode allows the user to drive the steam locos without using complex controls such as the ejectors, and also doesn’t use the realistic steam chest simulation. In expert mode, all controls need to be used to get the best out of the loco and a real steam chest simulation is present. To toggle between these modes, press B."

edit: What I think they're saying here is that if you drive with autofireman and legacy mode on then the simulator will take care of adding coal to the fire, adding water to the boiler and using the ejectors when taking the brakes off. The steam chest simulation adds a delay between moving the regulator to add steam, and that causing the loco to move. Basically, although there's still stuff to worry about (not running out of steam by using it too quickly, not going through red signals etc.), there's a lot less to worry about.

 

What a monster that engine was

 

Indeed. I’d love to get my hands on something like that in TSW at some point.

 

I think they go in full advanced. The auto heater would be a simple mode, so he takes care about coal and water.

The other way all the effort to bring steam to life with cutted back functionality..., that wouldnt be fun and im almost sure its not the case. Ts made progress with many impressive dlcs in steam, so it has to be at least better than that with the benefits of simmugraph.

 

I wonder if they'll implement something like the driver's assist (or whatever it was called) that was on Riviera in the 50s and then nothing else. It was basically a series of pop-ups advising you to do something while the scenario was running, and highlighting the control. It wasn't perfect, IIRC it broke if you had the auto fireman on, but was good for learning outside of a tutorial environment.

 

I am intrigued as to how budding driver-firemen will be able to perform the essential steam locomotive functions with a controller. I imagine many will be able to be mapped to an expanded Operations Shift.

I admit to being rather disappointed that it will not be possible to fire the engine whilst the AI takes care of the driving. Perhaps one day this could be partially solved with a two person multiplayer co-op option?

 

I am very much looking forward to steam in TSW. My best TS experiences were with Smokebox steam trying to drive and fire over busy routes with grades - it is quite a challenge and will keep you busy.

One way to learn how to fire was to use the “expert automatic fireman” and watch what happened. You can also get a “firing report” at any time during the run; it makes for great screenshots to share. Finally, if you get in trouble firing during a run, enabling the expert will get your fire in better shape.

With the Big Boy - highly recommended! - there is also an expert automatic engineer. You can turn on either the fireman or the engineer. You can even run with both where all you need to do is blow the whistle and bring the train to a complete stop when needed.

It is outlined in the manual on page 28:
https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/...-_Big_Boy_Manual_-_EN.pdf?t=1622120549#page28

The programming looks to be complex and more appropriate for later attempts at steam simulation once all the other complexities have been ironed out.

Automatic engineer would not work with AI physics. It would require a whole new set physics for a realistic in cab experience based on the state of the fire and appropriate behavior for player driven locos.

 

It would be great if the timetable was set just prior to the station closure (say a week or two). That way you could add some great historically accurate signs advertising the loss of service (assuming the team can find reference material).

I've seen lots of examples for other stations that were closed in this period. This was from Stockport Tiviot Dale in 1967, admittedly a bit later but I'm sure they'd be something similar.

 

Slight downer from me. Just tried the Bossman 8F in TS, had to give up in consternation and refund it. Seems to have been designed for the "pro" user, but I couldn't even get the reverser to engage and very few of the standard keys/processes work. Hopefully the TSW version will come with easier controls as an option and a decent tutorial, which of course is what's missing in TS.

 

Yeah, you really have to study the manual of BMG locos in-depth. Were you engaging/opening/whatevering the reverser lock?

 

I pressed and held down E, W shot straight to 100% with no control, released E but then the reverser still snapped back to 0. Too complex for my old brain!

 

Why giving up that fast? My personal recommendation for learning steam is the 3f jinty for ts.
Can i ask where were the difficulties? Was it the operation of the engine it self or the inputs with your controller?

 

Looks like it's the fact the HUD doesn't correctly show the state of the controls which had thrown me. Ah well, next time it pops up in a sale I'll give it another go.

 

Forget the hud. Use the gauges and the color of the steam. You dont need anything else.

 

I'm sure in the future there will be a steam route I'll want to buy, but this time around DTG have picked the route I care about the least, in a part of the country that isn't very glamorous. Liverpool and Crewe might have nice stations but it's what is in between that counts, and what's in between isn't very interesting.

And as for the locomotives (thanks for the insults everybody), they may be internally very different - and I'm glad both are being added - the problem for me is that they look so similar. I'm a complete supernerd and for years I couldn't tell the difference between an 8F, a Jubilee and a Black 5. When the largest visible difference is the wheels, there's not enough difference.

 

Do you use the F5 HUD? Sometimes a bit tricky to see when driving a steamer (it's white text with no background, so it often blends into the clouds.) but gives much more accurate information about the loco than the F3/F4 HUD does.

 

What an intriguing location. I know nothing about the area so have been doing some research.

Between them, Edge Hill and Crewe North & South loco sheds provide a huge amount of potential additional traction DLC. I'm sure that Ed (MeshTools) & Ben (Bossman Games) are already even busier. Various 5MT & 3Fs seem to be the traction of choice for everything else, along with a huge overhang of some rather lovely, esoteric, legacy locos.

Completely agree with and trust the strategic decisions made -
Length ~37 miles because of the huge number of assets required. Given the lower speeds of the time, I guess it'll probably work out at nearly an hour for an end to end run anyway.
Limiting the complexity eg no branches, modifying the existing Mk1 coaches and wagons, modular buildings and signals
Liverpool - second port of the empire as was, so huge people & freight flows from an iconic station and a huge yard
Crewe - main line, huge interchange both for passengers & locos, loco works that open the way for new steam & diesel and non native locos for scrapping or maintenance
As the first route in a new era all the assets for 1950s Britain and 1950s British Railways have to be modelled from scratch. It sounds like a lot of fun for the art team.

Shed traction (quantity order) -
Edge Hill - 3F Fowler Jintys, 7F Beames G2s, 5MT Black 5s, Passenger (Patriot, Jubilee, Royal Scot, Princess Royal), 8Fs
Speke Junction - mainly freight locos for working out of Garston Docks. 3F Jintys, 7F Super D, 8Fs, the LMS D3 diesels, D20/1 (TOPS 40) diesels.
Crewe North - Express passenger locos to London & Preston and mostly LMS 5MTs and down to LMS 1Fs.
Crewe South - A freight/MT shed. Roughly equal numbers of 3Fs (Fowler Jintys & Johnson) and 5MTs (Hughes Crab, Stanier Black 5 & Lobsters), LMS D3 diesels, some wartime 8Fs and a miscellany of smaller locos. Some early BR diesels D2 (TOPS 04), D3 (TOPS 08), D10 (TOPS 20). Various locos passing through to or from the works - express passenger locos from Edge Hill, new 9Fs, 2 & 4MTs.

In terms of other assets, hopefully we'll get some lovely light trucks, used for local delivery from the yards -
Scammell Scarab 3 wheeler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Scarab
Karrier Bantam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karrier

I'm loving this - there's so much to it.
(and if it all goes tits up, which it won't, the boss is to blame)

 

Probably there are already loco dlcs in planning. Small shunters like the 3F are needed, and the wagon fleet didnt show any milk or petroleum wagons, so likley they come with the first dlc.

Looks to me like you didnt lock the reverser in your adjusted position when adding steam power with the handle.

 

Good luck with GWR steam locomotives then. They're so similar that from common parts you can build one from another.

Seriously though, the loco choice seems to be based on what Bossman Games have already produced, in which case the Jubilee and 8F are probably the best choices. A Black Five, Royal Scot, Patriot and a Stanier Mogul could have been the alternatives, which are all very similar looking also. I wouldn't mind seeing the Meshtools Stanier 4MTT make the light of day in TSW though.

 

Looking at the route and all the signals that DTG have to get right is this route in danger of being a Rush Hour mark II. Good intentions but missing the mark because of time constraints?

Don't get me wrong I'm well chuffed Crewe are in there, I like the industrial side of the Railway just as much as the scenery, but given that this is DTG's first steam route in TSW2 wouldn't it have been better to pick a much more simpler route just to get in the swing of doing Steam?

I can hear DTG saying they had to cut back the route which (even though I would not have picked this route) would be a shame to to some no? Wallingford - Cholsey would have been perfect, hehe. I would of thought if they had chosen a simpler route but one which could be added to just to test and get things running.

 

I sincerely hope that all the locomotives will made to be fully compatible with Raildriver controller ‼️

 

35.5 miles according to the timetable of the day. The fastest I can find is 51 minutes, start to stop, on the 08:40 Liverpool Lime St - Euston, first stop Crewe. Most trains take quite a bit longer than that though.

 

This is why I would have been more confident if they had done something like the S&D or any of the others on my wish list, maybe even just a short branch line. Proof of concept and all that. I fear the complexity of the route and steam physics may prove too much. I can’t really see how they could shorten the route any more than it already is though, no logical loccation between Crewe and Lime Street to cut it off at.

 

Having a short branch line would be a bit underwhelming though, going big is probably the best way to attract the largest audience. Same strategy as back when Great Western Express was released as the first UK route in TSW, DTG chose a complex route over something simpler (West Somerset followed however).

 

I added the short branch line as an afterthought, but something like the S&D or Mallaig Extension with relatively uncomplicated infrastructure would have offered substantial gameplay without the risk of running into massive optimisation issues. Of course there wouldn't be quite the DLC possibilities that Crewe to Liverpool may offer, but then no one's going to buy add ons if it runs like a dog. I guess only time will tell if they made the correct decision.

 

That's assuming we get low performance. Train Simulator is far less optimised and unstable compared to TSW, it does run slower with steam but nothing game-breaking, so I remain hopeful. If anything TSW would handle it better, having a more modern architecture. Regardless, the skills of the developers in optimising it all will be critical here, which is why I'm slightly cautious about a release scheduled 'in a few months' when they haven't tested steam in a complete state yet. Those few months need to be used to ensure it runs smoothly. Hopefully it doesn't result in a delayed or disappointing release.

 

Absolutely. The particle effects will probably be a nightmare to implement with little performance impact. Especially when, as Matt said, they want steam to be bouncing of bridges and such.

 

The GWE was intended to be far longer than what we were left with (less than a third of the route) and they blamed it on time constraints.

 

Looking at snapshots of the depot allocations from BRDatabase in 1958 gives some idea of what future DLC locos are possible. I believe there will be 3 depots included in the route, being Edge Hill, Crewe North and Crewe South. The Jubilees are allocated to Edge Hill and Crewe North whilst the 8Fs were mostly based at Crewe South, with a few at Edge Hill.

Edge Hill
Crewe North
Crewe South

The Princess Royal class 4-6-2 are a good bet, being roughly divided between Crewe North and Edge Hill, as are the Fowler 3F 'Jinty', being allocated to Edge Hill and Crewe South.

Whilst popular, I can't see them adding the Black Five as it's too similar to the Jubilee and 8F and in fact is part of the same family of locos which share very similar boilers all with the same 68.375" maximum boiler diameter. The Jubilee (type 3A), Black Five (type 3B), 8F (type 3C) and Stanier Mogul (type 3D) differ primarily in regards to firebox length and length across tube sheets, of which the type 3A has the longest firebox and tubes/flues. Two Jubilees - 45735 and 45736 were rebuilt with the larger type 2A boiler as found on the Rebuilt Royal Scots.

 

Let's be honest, if they had the time and money, GWE would've gone all the way to Penzance and/or Wales. From what Matt said, the branches to GWE weren't cut because they ran out of time, they were cut because it was felt they needed the scope to be much simpler.

 

Yes, the Bath- Templecombe route would have made a gentle introduction to steam. I cut my teeth, as it were, learning to drive steam locos on that route. Not too difficult, as I recall. Then there was the Q1 and the Spitfires doing somersaults overhead. Those were the days. ​

A bit short for TSW, though, unless it was extended to the coast.

 

In mileage yes, but not in journey time. Looking at a couple of timetables (as I mentioned in another thread somewhere) it took absolutely forever to get from Bath to Templecombe.

 

Wow, I’ve never heard of that before! Did they ever publicly talk about that or is it just a rumor?

 

If DTG were vehemently opposed to everything but the most unique locomotives for TSW that would be one thing. But that's clearly not the case when you look at lines like London Commuter and Harlem Line, those make use of locos which are very similar to ones which already exist in TSW. If it fits the route I'd be surprised if DTG don't push to get it made, especially considering Bossman are already familiar with the Black 5.

 

Correct and if WCML Liverpool-Crewe needs more steam locomotive a Standard 2-6-4 4MT Belle or Ivatt 2MT Arthur can do the Job shunting & Mk1 coaches commuter while a Black Five Henry runs both Freight and Mk1 Coach passenger

 

To be honest an LMS or LMR route without a black five is like having a WR route without a Pannier or London to Brighton without an Electrostar (well maybe not that extreme).

However personally, if there is to be some DLC, which I assume there will be, some representing local passenger traffic would be good, something like a Fowler/Fairburn/Stanier 4mt with some non mark 1 carriages. These could be used on freight and parcels service too.

A Jinty would be nice but a black or BR green class 08 would have been very common by 1958, or maybe we could have the LMS designed class 11 or class 12 (I forget which one it was).

 

Was pondering last night what worked the stopping services to Ditton that we see in the timetable, prior to DMUs being introduced. Definitely scope for a DLC as the planners and controllers are not going to waste a Jub and set of Mark Ones on a local train, except as a last minute replacement for a failure.

 

Me neither. But for sure true. Didn't Matt or Sam said, that they worked nearly 2 years on CSX: Heavy Haul (SPG) as it was the first TSW-route? I think GWE also took a lot of time as it was just the second route. Comparing it to now, there must be a significant difference in development time per kilometre - which is of course not a steady nuber, but rather dependent on what kind of scenery you have next to the track.

 

Also, GWE necessitated the development of a UK signalling system, AWS, TPWS (even though it didn't work), passengers and their AI, and they also had to solve the problem of moving between coaches (before GWE, you couldn't just move between rail vehicles by default - you had to look in a specific location and press E), a diesel hydraulic physics system, 2 locos, 2 sets of wagons, 1 set of coaches, 1 DMU, and a 40 mile commuter route.

Matt said at the time in response to criticism that it only goes as far as Reading, he said something along the lines of 'I'd have loved to go all the way to Penzance, but see you in about 20 years'. He also mentioned it on a later stream that they originally planned to have all the branches to GWE, but they got cut very quickly because they realised the spec was perhaps a bit too ambitious (I think ATP was also cut at the time as well). If they were making and releasing GWE now, they'd most likely include the Greenford branch and ATP, and possibly the airport branch, or they'd go to Didcot.

 

That is amazing! Steam and smoke bouncing off enviromental elements would be a first for me.
Hopefully it works with tunnels too. One day we might see something like this:

 

Oh, absolutely. It would be amazing to have steam bouncing off everything. I just have my doubts as to whether that is really feasible from a performance perspective.

 

I share your doubts, especially considering DTG's strive for equality with Gen 8 consoles...

 

Right, I think it's now time for me to jump in and lay my thoughts on the whole thing, now that the the dust has settled a little and I think I'll post it here, rather than over on another thread because I think it would be pointless to do so when I made this thread in response to the whole announcement of TSW2's first steam route (which has gained a lot of traction since, making it perfect to post my thoughts here).

So a reminder of what this route is, it is of course the main line between Liverpool and Crewe set in 1958, a distance of 34.4 Miles (55.4 km) featuring both the LMS Jubilee 4-6-0 for passenger services and for freight, you have the LMS 8F 2-8-0. These with will come along with a variety of rolling stock including:

• BR Mk1's (Not been shown yet)
• 16 ton Mineral Wagon
• Conflats (Comes with two types of load, a small & large box)
• 5-Plank Wagon
• Standard 20 ton Brake Van
• 2-Axle Box Van (Similar to the one from NTP's BR Heavy Freight Pack. Wasn't shown or mentioned in the stream, but since confirmed to be appearing by Matt on this very thread in fact).

Now I'll start by saying this that, I actually this is a great pick for TSW2's first steam route. Now going into this announcement, a lot of people had the thought that this was going to either be a small route or a just a loco add-on for something like West Somerset Railway. I even thought that would be easy for DTG to just readapted one of their existing UK steam-era routes available on TS Classic for TSW2 like the S&D or Riviera in the 50's. But instead, we actually got a route that is far more ambitious than anyone would have thought at first, but is also something new that we haven't really seen before from either TS Classic or TSW.

But I also think this selection really isn't something of a surprise as the talk of doing this route has been around for a long while now. I remember back during the end of year Q&A in 2020 that Sam mentioned that was a route that he would most want to do and, as I've seen some people bring up here, this is kinda fulfilling the dream of the company's CEO, Paul Jackson, who has always wanted to have a steam-era route set out of Crewe (he even mentioned it in the initial article talking about steam that came out just about a year ago now) and low and behold, here it is, we are getting a a steam-era set out of Crewe towards Liverpool Lime Street.

Now starting with the locos themselves, I think they are a decent pick to give one that offers a passenger/express experience and another that is primarily used on freight traffic (and sometimes on passenger traffic as well, but we will see what the plans are for this loco on this route at a later date). Now you could argue that maybe the two locos are a bit similar to each other, but here's the thing you got to remember. Firstly, this normally seems to fit in line with what a typical TSW2 release would be, which is to have one loco that is passenger oriented and another that is more freight centric. I would of maybe liked to have seen a more regional passenger loco, as well as a shunting loco on top, but that's maybe something for a loco add-on to tackle in the future.

This also leads me on to another thing, this route comes with 2 new locos. This deserves much more recognition than it's getting right now because, this normally never happens in TSW2 nowadays. From what I checked, the last time a new TSW route release came with more than one new loco was Northern Trans-Pennine, released back in December 2018, over 3 years ago (The two new locos back then were the Class 45 Peak & the Class 101 DMU). Ever since then, most new route released have either had one new loco and the rest are reused from other routes, or a roster just made up of stuff already available with it sometimes being upgraded with a new variant/livery or functionality. This kinda shows that DTG, is putting in a lot more effort into this route than what they would normally do for a typical route release and being honest, I feel like they had too, as most of the rolling stock we have at the moment didn't exist back in 1958, with the only reused assets being the Mk1 coaches and the Box Van from NTP (even at that, these items are getting new sounds and hopefully a new livery in the case of the former, more on that in a bit), everything else is brand new to TSW2 which, as much as I do like the formula of having a most one new loco and everything else reused, is actually rather refreshing for a change and something that, unless we see another steam-era route like this, probably won't happen again for a long time, so I would enjoy this more ambitious approach while you can.

On the subject of the Mk1 coaches, it's not something that bothers me that much, I would have been nice to have some new coaching stock for this route, but this route can live with just having these coaches for now. But one question I do have is what's going to be the livery for these coaches as this as far as I'm aware, wasn't mentioned at all during the stream, so I would have like to have know what the livery on these coaches are going to be at least. I would have a guess that it's either going to be BR Maroon or Crimson & Cream. Or maybe even both, but we will have to wait and see on that.

One more thing I would like to mention here is Bossman Games involvement in this, which I think will be a great asset for this route. Some of the stuff they have made for TS Classic look genuinely great, I even had the S15 they made back when they first started out and I do remember enjoying it back then. So I look forward to seeing what they can do to help further enhance this overall experience and also, I do hope that this means, once this route is actually out, that they do eventually jump in a make their own content for TSW2. If they are up for it, I can see no reason why they would want to make their own stuff for this game and are probably the most likely steam third-party developer to jump into TSW2 at some point in the future.

But onto the route itself, I've seen a lot of people describe the route as a bit dull, but In my eyes, this is actually a case of where the execution is more important than the concept here. The thing is here is that, I do agree that, if this route was set around today, it wouldn't be a very interesting route at all. Maybe freight might offer an interesting experience as you do have the Jaguar plant at Halewood which is used by car transporter trains to take newly produced cars out of the facility, but the passenger part would have been anything inspiring other than a lot of AI traffic around the two end stations. But by having this route be a steam-era route, it opens the door for some more interesting opportunities as you have the big engine sheds at both Crewe and Edge Hill and you also have a variety and yards (that will be represented) and stations that don't exist nowadays for this route to take advantage of.

Which leads me to what the timetable could look like, as I am a person who is more interested in the timetable aspects of these routes more than anything else (I don't just make pdf timetables for nothing you know). I generally think that how good this timetable will be will come down to two factors:

1. How many of the passenger services will be represented here? From looking at archive timetables that people have posted here, it seems like this was a pretty busy route back in the day. Maybe not as much as most routes we've, but still enough to make it interesting. The problem is that how many of those services did the Jubilee work? Or will this be a case that the Jubilee will have to take on services it wouldn't normally run just to boost the numbers of services that it has? We've seen this happen before where there are services represent by a loco that isn't normally what would do those services, but is there in order to get the full timetable experience and it could easily happen again on this route. On the subject of passenger, I also ask... What's going to happen regarding turning around the Liverpool end of the route? I say this because, normally that would mean locos being turned around on the turntable in real life back then, but this is something we have never seen before in TSW, so is this going to change for this route? Or are we just going to see locos use the loop line around Edge Hill in order to get facing in the right direction for departing out of Liverpool? That's something for this route to answer hopefully. I will also mentioned that I do expect there to be AI traffic represented many other services around the two end stations, especially those around Crewe that continue up the West Coast Main Line towards Scotland.

2. What will freight look like on this route? This is important as this is what could really make the difference on this routes timetable. This route seems to have all the right ingredients to make some interesting freight services out of as there's a nice variety of wagons for this route to play with, including TSW's first proper UK brake wagon. It will just come down to what this route does with them, as well as what was freight like on this route back in 1958. But should this done well, it could deliver on some interesting experiences that we don't normally see in TSW2.

But overall, this has the potential to be amazing and to be one the best things to have ever come to TSW2, if it's executed right, which always seems to be an uncertainty with many of the recent DTG releases we have been getting. But for me, this route is massive a step towards two things. Firstly, TSW2 becoming the game we always knew it could be if DTG just got themselves together as this, alongside the upcoming Creator's Club, are really two big features that are really missing in order for this game to become fully complete and it looks like both will be coming at some point this year (in the case of the later, potentially sometime in the next couple of weeks), but more importantly for me, if there's one that this route succeeds in more than anything else and something that this game has the potential to succeed in far more than any busy 'Rush Hour' route that has tons of traffic on it, it's taking long lost era's of railway history and bringing them back to life in simulation.

The thing is on that last point is, we can't physically go back in time and experience these era's unless we build a time machine that doesn't alter history and the only chance you will ever get to experience what the era of steam was like is if you go to a heritage railway or go on a steam rail tour. Here though, it may not be quite the same, but with a recreation like this, we can get a glimpse as to what that era was like. I know you can do this on other Train Simulators out there like Trainz or TS Classic, but if there's one thing TSW2 has over most of those games, is that you can walk around and explore the various areas that a TSW route provides. I will be great to climb up, wonder about and play around with the controls inside the cab of a steam locomotive and I can already say that railfanning this route will be an awesome experience regardless of what happens as we get to experience the likes of Crewe & Liverpool during the steam-era, something that so many of us would of wished to have experienced back then.

We don't know when this route is coming out other than it's months away (I would guess around May-July time, but that will depend on how much work has already been done by the point we had the stream last Saturday) but regardless of what happens between now and then, I look forward to experiencing this route when it ultimately comes out and to experience an era of railways unlike anything else we have seen in TSW2 so far.

 

I'm confident in most things apart from the variety of locomotives. Launching without an appropriate locomotive to perform local, shunting and turnaround duties would be the equivalent of GWE releasing without the 166, and I fear for the variety of the timetable as a result.

The best option, if it's possible to include one, would be a 3F Jinty I think as it's a go-anywhere-do-anything locomotive that isn't wildly complex. A secondary option could be a Stanier, Fairburn or BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T but that would be more complex to model most likely.

I'd like to see the Jinty operate all local passenger and freight services, with the 8F being used for express and heavy freight and the Jubilees used on semi-fast and express passenger services.

Shunting and turnaround duties could also be performed by the Jinty or a green-liveried 08.

The ultimate problem is that I don't think there are any existing or planned locomotives that could reasonably be used for local stopping trains. I'm fine with using Mk1 carriages for local services in a pinch but seeing a Jubilee hauling two or three carriages on a stopper would be exceptionally weird.