Train Sim World 2 - Roadmap Update 25/01/2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,473
    Likes Received:
    1,010
    You are not wrong there, i am also experiencing lag and glitches and FPS drop as well, which stutter, in some parts of the London Route, especially when coming out of Victoria London, and Brighton Terminal as well, and other German Route as well. I am sure we are not the only one
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    PS4 players don't have the dlc limit. PS5 players have that. Also it's not surprising at all that last gen are still the majority since it's nearly impossible to get a PS5 or Xbox Series unless you pay scalpers $200+ over retail price. People aren't gonna do that and with the chip shortage causing the lack of availability of current gen consoles expected to last till early next year at the earliest, last gen users will make up the majority of the playerbase I suspect for the next few years until current gen consoles become more available.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  3. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2020
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    We have lots of train layers on other routes, why does HMA make so much problems on consoles, that there are only the S Bahn and ICE Layer?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,162
    Route assets.
     
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,735
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    9th gen consoles are impossible to get, except at scalper prices
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    2,187
    They’re not , otherwise no one would have one . They are just difficult to get
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,735
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    Your logic is faulty: people obviously pay scalper prices to get them. If they didn't the scalpers wouldn't charge what they do.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,942
    With no new UK route it seems before SOS, a Swiss route by Rivet with their poor reputation and two US routes of very little interest (compared to the revived Run 8) can’t see me buying much in the next few months.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2018
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    910
    Feels like DTG need to get their house in order. In a rush to get DLC through the door instead of the core platform... we're looking at:
    - Still unresolved issues with past routes
    - Regressions in route technology
    - Preservation updates being withheld
    - Playstation owners scratching their heads at their trophey cabinets
    - Rivet still releasing DLC that can't break the 69% positive mark
    - Dispatcher still limiting the potential of routes (BKL/LIRR)
    - Regression back to a more conservative "roadmap"
    - Still no glimmer of more diverse content

    Only two glimmers of positivity I've seen are Spirit of Steam, and JustTrains. I get that DTG are a business, but the amount of cumulative issues and missed opportunities is getting a bit ridiculous.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  10. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    I'm more inclined at the moment to take a gamble on rivets new Swiss route rather than those American oblong trains.

    Rivet have taken a gamble and as much as it pains me to say I'm swaying that way between that and Harlem
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Guess I must have hallucinated my PS5 and Series X then. Over Christmas (the busiest time of year) I was able to obtain a Series X from Amazon with no rushing to check out. In fact I waited a full day until deciding to get it and it was still in stock.

    It IS slowly getting easier, only more and more people are gonna be playing on next gen.
     
  12. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    That's not true. They're difficult to get, yes, but I paid the normal retail price for my PS5.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    402
    Loads of Xbox Series X in stock on Amazon. I was able to get one with no hassle.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2021
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    549
    Well, a Swiss route by Rivet (time will show).

    Locos but nothing else than German stuff.

    Skyhook needs more time for their route.

    Preservation team has done a lot of work (not essentiel but indded nice, like it was said before its more or less fluff), but no we cant hope for those upgrades to be released any time soon.

    Nothing about major bug fixes or major useful evolutions ( you know, night lightning, broken sound, broken physics on some trains) . No hope for those.

    Depressing Roadmap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  15. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    10,981
    I can confirm we haven't abandoned making them.
     
    • Like Like x 14
  16. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    479
    Unfortunately we only know what we can see on the roadmap, and if it isn't on the roadmap...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    10,981
    Nothing currently set in stone, but as soon as it is you will see it on the Roadmap. I simply had it confirmed that we aren't walking away from creating locos.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  18. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2020
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    426
    I got one from Argos so not impossible, as someone has said, just difficult.
     
  19. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    479
    Looking forward to it then. Hopefully a loco or two will be set in stone for a railroad starting with "Clinch" and ending in "field". ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    2,339
    Likes Received:
    3,299
    My feedback from last night's stream (viewed this morning)
    • Nat's mic is far too loud, not just on this stream but all of them recently (new house acoustics?)
    • I didn't really get a lot out of the stream compared to how they used to be so informative. I struggled last night to really pick out what was new that I learnt
    • Releasing updates in route popularity order. Not sure if this is a legit way to do it. e.g Pen Corridor and a couple of others were being worked on for several months so I purposely haven't played them waiting for the updates to arrive. If we all did this then route popularity in some cases would drop right off
    • Nothing further on the PS5 DLC limit issue where I would expect the Roadmap stream to be THE place where latest progress is discussed (I realise that doesn't affect everyone but again back to the route popularity thing, some of us don't have the option to have all our routes there installed and playable right now unless we faff around replacing content)
     
    • Like Like x 11
  21. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    10,981
    Apologies for the audio issues last night, not quite sure what happened. I shall fiddle around with the settings before the next stream.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,446
    It seems an odd way of doing it. Why not just release those that are ready in the order of the longest period they have been waiting for the fixes! Seems simple not trying to gain popularity by asking peoples opinions of what order they would prefer them. Not only that not everyone who uses TSW even vists the forum.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,423
    Likes Received:
    18,140
    Releasing updates should be based on when X route last received an update. So no route should have to wait longer than another. The reason why some routes are more popular than others is because they've already received their update and/or are performing and looking better than other routes, thus players continue to enjoy them.

    I really want to play ECW and GWE again, however I will only do so once its received its update and/or fixes and changes are made. I'm sure quite a few other players share the same view as me.

    Give ALL routes a fair chance, irrespective of how popular they are. Personally I'd start off with the oldest routes/ones which are still pretty much in their TSW 1 stage, and are lacking basic TSW 2 features.
     
    • Like Like x 26
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  24. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    2,138
    I totally agree, shipping out updates based on popularity seems a counterproductive approach. I would love to play RT, but I simply can't because of glaring bugs. Doesn't mean it is an unpopular route for me, it just means I literally cannot play it due to bugs and it needs urgent fixing, to give one example. And if you want to use an objective measure, updates for the least played routes should be pushed first, not the other way round.

    However, I also have to say that the order of updates doesn't even matter. Obviously I have my priorities and would like to see the updates in that very order, but in the end, it is more about bringing updates out at all, rather than in a specific order. I would be much more satisfied knowing that an update will be released, but if it is the first or last doesn't matter in the end. And that's assuming all updates (and by that I mean ALL, for ALL routes that are out there) are released, let's be optimistic and say within a year, that the order doesn't matter. In case the plan is to release these fixes over the coming years, there is obviously a different problem.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    I just wish there was a workaround to release all preserved updates in one hit and be done with it. I feel like I'm 20 years younger living at home watching a soap opera and seeing it build up to the Xmas murder for 9 months.

    In Tuesdays episode
    Adam talks about preserved updates

    2 months later
    In Tuesdays episode
    Adam talks about preserved updates

    Another 2 months later
    In Tuesdays episode
    Adam finds the mysterious qa team and talks to DTG

    In 2022 Xmas episode
    Nat finds Adam severely ill after being on hunger strike drinking only energy drinks having battled for 6 months against the DTG and console boss


    It's arduous now.
     
    • Like Like x 13
  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,477
    Likes Received:
    17,340
    I’ve tried three times to reply to what I heard in the stream and deleted it before posting but I’ll try a condensed version because lots of people have already eloquently expressed the community’s feelings on the mess that DTG have found themselves in.

    I won’t be telling Nat the order that Adam’s updates should release. That is a ludicrous way to schedule updates. Total madness. As for releasing in popularity from how much they are played, that might be slightly better but I skip the broken routes because they are broken so that will reduce their apparent popularity, when they might require the most fixes.

    The Pres Crew have had to give up their work due to testing and release bottlenecks but luckily there are paid DLC they can work on which will get tested and released. I know the extra enhancement pack is a good way of recouping lost income from the fact that delays in Rush Hour and steam mean income won’t have been what it was if things had gone well but it still doesn’t look good from this side of the screen when Adam tells us proudly of all the stuff that will get released after telling us he’s stopped work on the stuff we rely on him for. Not his fault, he probably feels the same about this as we do. Also they are doing third party liaison and subbing in for QA which are both good things but not what they should be doing. The things they should be doing, such as fixing bugs in all routes, are just not getting done now.

    The capacity of the QA department should have been increased when the development goals increased. The same goes for release slots and strategy. There should be enough slack in the system so that when extra testing is required it doesn’t cause massive issues, It’s very odd how DTG didn’t realise they would need more capacity. It’s an important part of the dev process so how it has got so out of sync with the rest of it is beyond me.
     
    • Like Like x 22
  27. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    2,138
    +1 to all of that!

    Hearing how Adam's team works on the expansion pack and with the third parties sounds good at first, but at the same time that basically means that fixes have gotten an even lower priority and the pres. crew focus will be on things that pay off more directly, which is a sad but not too unexpected turn of events :(
     
    • Like Like x 7
  28. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    1,453
    Yeah, I'm not really a fan of add-on updates by popularity, seems to me like the add-ons most in need of updates would get shunted to the back of the queue
     
    • Like Like x 5
  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    What I find interesting also is that on various social media channels many people ask "what's the best route?"

    I appreciate new dlc pays salaries but the perception of existing players to newer ones choosing their routes pays too indirectly from community recommendations
     
  30. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    Ah, that explains why the Köln-Aachen timetable update is part of a paid DLC, rather than a free preservation crew update.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  31. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    I guess it depends on how one would measure popularity. Perhaps some sort of voting system might work, so the community can vote on whichever routes we think would be in most need of an update. But measuring it by most played or most sold, obviously results into the problem that DLC that's unpopular because it needs an update, never will receive an update.

    I mean, Cane Creek looks like a great DLC, in concept, but apparently the bugs are so numerous Steam reviews are low. It's the reason I haven't bought Cane Creek yet. If it never gets updated, I'll also very likely never buy it. (Unless it's like 90% discount like Oakville was in the Steam winter sale). It'll remain unpopluar because it gets no updates.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  32. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    Exactly, the way they plan to release the updates is madness. If the popular routes get their updates as a priority, then popular routes will become more popular and unpopular routes will never get a slot (exaggerating for the worst-case scenario).
     
    • Like Like x 10
  33. metro north railfan 224

    metro north railfan 224 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2021
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    73
    Speaking of locomotive add-ons, I am totally enjoying the GE C40-8W for the CSX Sand Patch Grade.
     
  34. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2021
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    638
    This release order based on popularity is like stirring up the hornets' nest. My approach would be much simpler: release these updates in an order that reflects on the timeline of how these TSW1 routes were released originally. But again, it doesn't really matter, because you're not releasing anything at all.

    As I said above, excuses here and on the stream will note make it less bearable. From a business management perspective, it's a really poor decision to make a dedicated team do things that they shouldn't have been doing. Liaising with third parties? Assisting them with testing? You put yourself in a tough situation, players want to see results, not excuses and promises.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  35. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    161
    Why not have the routes with the most bugs in the first place to be released for an update, instead of play time (popular order).
     
    • Like Like x 8
  36. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    Wasn't the idea of the new roadmap setup that things could be added to the roadmap before they were completely set in stone, as happened to the first steam route, where the code only told us it was a British Steam Route in the 1950-1990 period?

    I'd prefer new content to be added to the roadmap as soon as possible, even if all the info we have is "A loco add-on". Right now, I really have the impression DTG is working on a lot more than the roadmap tells us. I find the roadmap becoming less useful and less reliable.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  37. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    10,981
    Appreciate all of the feedback in here so far folks, keep it coming.

    I do understand why the community are tired of the Roadmap streams when we talk about the Pres Crew as we've done a lot of talking and not very much updating. Someone perfectly described it as "Groundhog day" on the stream.

    I am seeing resounding agreement that releasing them in "popularity" order is not desirable for anyone. Myself and Adam are making changes and discussing the best way to organise these releases. And your opinions really do help.

    When I say "set in stone" I really mean "actually going to happen". The finer details of a new loco don't need to be added to the Roadmap instantly. When an idea is coming together and a decision has been made on what we would like to create, we will list it as "UK loco, US Loco, DE loco etc" over time as more and more details get confirmed we will then add more information to the Roadmap.

    Right as this moment there are lots of ideas being thrown around as it's the time of year when we make decisions regarding the year ahead, which is why it probably feels like we aren't giving you all of the information. There is nothing we are confident will stay right now, but we will update the Roadmap when we are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Why have a release order at all?
    I advocate a similar process to what Microsoft and other large companies do. Once every "period" (could be quarterly in the case of TSW) they have a big release of all relevant updates that are tested and cleared to be released. This is the ONLY thing released on that date so it doesn't get messy with other updates, upgrades or new releases
    For DTG this would mean every three months they update as much content as possible with updates, fixes, bug fixes (not alpha as those would be fixed asap), pres crew content etc etc

    That way we would be able to have a list on the roadmap or on a sticky post on here that gets built up to let people know what will be in the release on that date. I would suggest a close off date 1 month prior to the release so we don't get "sloppy testing" etc, and these items can then be discussed on the roadmap streams as "upcoming or next release bugfixes"
     
    • Like Like x 11
  39. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Me too. Would never pay scalper prices.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  40. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Matt once told me it's because of all the signals. In the Munich area alone, there are said to be around 3,000
     
  41. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    Thanks for trying to explain it. There's still a thing I don't quite understand, but perhaps I've misunderstood things. I remember Matt saying there'd be 4 teams dedicated to building route DLCs, each specializing in certain countries. That'd mean there's a UK-route building team working on a UK route (which I guess would be Liverpool-Crewe), a US-route building team working on a US route (the Harlem Line), a German route building team working on a German route, and a 4th team working on whatever.

    That means there should be at least a German route in development. Or is that German route-building team doing nothing? Or am I totally misunderstanding what Matt said in one of the streams about the setup with several dedicated specialized route-building teams?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  42. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    10,981
    I believe that is the plan for the future of the team, however I'm not certain that setup is currently in practice yet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  43. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2019
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    561
    me too
     
  44. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    So, if I understand things correctly, that'd mean that once that setup is set up and running, we'll always have 4 route DLCs in development, and listed on the roadmap, even if the details about the route are as limited as "A German route"?
     
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I wouldn't say "always", with the way rush hour went I'm sure there were times when there were more than 4 and times where it was a bit less...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  46. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    161
    If more than one route can be released I'm 100% for that was just going of yesterday stream about the order and seemed like most played routes would get updates first. I'm against that I think it should be the routes which had the most bugs to fix them be released first.
     
  47. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    650
    I don't understand the roadmap anymore and also the way it is handled.
    Some time ago it was said that things will only be put on the roadmap when there is concrete information about it. So they don't want to put anything on the roadmap too early anymore. Now they come up with a "Swiss route", which they supposedly don't know anything about themselves and the developer also has no idea what it will look like. This means that it should still be in the planning phase and not yet in development. So why is the route then put on the roadmap? And most importantly, listed BEFORE Horseshoe Curve?

    It has been said that the order of listing is the order of expectation of release. How can a route that is still in the planning stages be expected before a route that has been in development for months? After all, reading this, one has to assume that the Skyhook track is in a miserable state and still needs a lot of time to get it in order. Or is Skyhook still working on reworking the failed 187 before that? Probably not ...

    Likewise it is not understandable, why one simply puts all old routes as revision on it, although it cannot be at all that one works on all at the same time.
    It is therefore all the more not understandable why 232, which is already in development, is simply deleted and thus suggests that it will no longer be released.

    After the discontinuation of the development of Scenario and Livery Designer 2.0 and the hard restrictions on the paint jobs, the Creators Club makes no sense in my opinion. It's a pity about the development time that has now been used up, which could have been better used elsewhere.

    There are still so many bugs on your list, but it feels like nothing happens. Bugs that were reported over a year ago are still not fixed. This is not the way to keep customers loyal to your product in the long run.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    OK, so the route which has 100 bugs TO fix, but only 15 bugs fixed and tested and ready should be released ahead of a route which may have 15 bugs TO fix with 12 bugs fixed...
    I don't understand why there should be limits generally to which routes get updated when ALL can be released on the same day

    OK, so you end up downloading your entire collection 4 times a year, but better that then "well this route still has more than yours so tough..."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  49. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    161
    Yes I'm only going of what they said yesterday on the stream last night I was meaning if they fixed 15 of 100 that should be released ahead of 12 of 15 your misreading what I'm saying 12 of 15 has a higher percentage also. Adam's team seems to have done a lot of preservation and just waiting for them to be released it's what I'm going off.
     
  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    This is what I'm querying... do you mean a higher number to be fixed, or a higher number of fixes applied...
    And again, don't see why they are streamed anyway rather than a bug release date set overall
     

Share This Page