Train Sim World 2- The Start Of A New Journey

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 4, 2022.

  1. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but forums are also for "whining and complaining". Like you are doing in many of your posts, incidentally. I do find it interesting how certain members here have the hostile attitude of "don't like it, don't buy it, shut up".
     
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  2. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of that saying, 'the good thing about computers is they do exactly what you tell them to, the bad thing about computers is they do exactly what you tell them to'
     
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  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    How many DLC in a row is this now that has met with some resistance? 40? 50? I don’t know the exact number, but it is all of the DLC in case you were wondering. Just wait for the reaction when the price is announced. I’ve got my life jacket, torch and whistle ready. I think this is very much a pack that can be dismissed without much comment if you don’t like what it contains, or purchased quietly if you do. It’s a bit of a mix-up with a few nice bits of content to add to the core routes, not the big release of the year.
     
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  4. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be 90% whining and complaining... especially about UNRELEASED products... that nobody is forced to buy.
    And which member actually said "don't like it, don't buy it, shut up"? Quit making things up FFS.
     
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  5. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    I hope the proper RS3L horn for Clinchfield SD40 is a part of this! Updated sounds for Sand Patch would be nice too! Sherman Hill, NEC, sounds are a great improvement!
     
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  6. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Expanded SKA timetable is worth it depending on the price.

    I'm still confused about the Sandpatch upgrade- is it the SD40-2, or the SD40 (that subs in from Clinchfield) that's getting a new skin?
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The latter. The existing CSX SD40-2 models are physically wrong for a 1980s paint job (although I've done them in LD, i was fully aware of the anachronisms).
     
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  8. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I'm so sick of this "Don't like it, don't buy it" excuse. If a product has obvious issues I am going to point them out and criticise them, I'm not just going to sit around and wait for DTG to magically understand what bothers me when they turn to the next DLC.
     
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  9. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Give me an editor and I'll make my own expansion pack, and I'll also gladly give it away for free. And no, it probably won't be perfect in every single way, but that is also not what I'm expecting from DTG. I do however expect a certain standard that is higher than just "Roughly the same train, good enough, release it".
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  10. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha
     
  11. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Again, an UNRELEASED product that you did not buy nor use. Get over it. Keep crying.
     
  12. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's worth noting that the article says nothing about release date even, only to look for more info "in the coming weeks." Seems like jumping the gun a bit, therefore, to assume that this has taken priority over anything else in QA (where it may not even have been yet), or that the 423 pics getting complaints are anything but preliminary works in progress.
     
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  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    You are right on the money, solicitr! This is actually a pretty good package for SPG, and I will no doubt pop for it. But a cynic would have a field day with this one. When they want to get it done, DTG can fast track a dlc for sure.
     
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  14. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to buy something to see that the train included is not accurate despite them saying very clearly that it's supposed to be the Köln variant. Just because you believe that any preview has absolutely nothing to do with the end product and all problems will be sorted and it will be great doesn't mean everyone else has to be that naive.

    And I'm not crying, I'm criticising. If you can't handle people not liking something you clearly very much do then I suggest you stay away from platforms designed to give feedback.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  15. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    DTG made that with Diesel Legends all ready. But at RT they made a new timetable. And at RT it was free.
     
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  16. Brendan Millea

    Brendan Millea Member

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    Sure
     
  17. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait for this expansion pack to drop. Not sure if it will live up to the expectations of "revisiting routes from a whole new perspective". But the idea of it sounds promising. I think what is missing here from my perspective is no changes to the world. The world of trains is very dynamic. Stations stay the same but the interior of big stations changes. New commercial areas, new billboards etc. On the route itself houses get rebuild, graffiti changes .... Not sure if that is a lot of work. It doesn't sound like a lot of work but it will probably be :D.

    What is the price of the expansion? I read some saying it's not worth the money but how much money are we talking about?
     
  18. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I think it will be the same as diesel legends was. But purely a guess
     
  19. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I never once said it was useless but maybe I set my expectations too high.
     
  20. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Joe, one question: in the S-Bahn services currently in game, there were some services with problems around Sindorf due to wrong timings and trains were blocking each other. (There have been a couple of threads and reports about this, let me know if you don’t know what I mean.) Is that something you have fixed with the new timetable, or did you “just” add the new services?
     
  21. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    No Railfans on this route is also a bummer :D
     
  22. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

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    Many here have the habit of telling the "whiners" to stop "whining" (ie. shut up) and not buy it, so I'm hardly making things up?
     
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  23. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    None that I was aware of I'm afraid. I simulated the timetable as it was before adding new services and the simulation successfully finished.
     
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  24. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I am referring to these reports, maybe it was already fixed before you. Thanks for the reply :)
     
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  25. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    You should see some of the free stuff that is made for TS2022. It's phenomenal the amount of work people will put in for nothing. Puts DTG to shame that they charge for things like a reskin and some extra services. I wonder why they don't want the editor released? Answer: it would make products like this redundant.
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    No fix for that has ever been released according to the update notes as I’ve been looking out for it for a long time. That’s not to say it hasn’t been fixed and is waiting in the queue like so many other fixes. It probably wouldn’t show up in the AI testing of the timetable as it didn’t show up in that testing process the first time it was released, as these issues are caused when the player spawns at specific times as far as I can tell. It will be very disappointing to buy those services again in an expansion pack to find they still get snarled up.
     
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  27. Choo choo

    Choo choo Well-Known Member

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    A bit weird to make people pay for what is basically an additional layer, I understand why some are disappointed with the move.

    With that being said, it seems like the preservation update as well as the extra services will add much more life to the route, so I'm looking forward to that :)
     
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  28. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Why is it a bit weird to make someone pay for something that took extra work?
     
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  29. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    If this was Omsi or ETS2 this would be a free ad-on or update, or included from the very start. DTG expects money for the tiniest bits of work.

    If DTG was a person they would charge you 5€ for picking up your dropped wallet!
     
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hobbyists don't make for a viable comparison.
     
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  31. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    if that is your view, I would recommend you vote with your wallet and move over to OMSI and ETS2 for your pastime interest.

    I have been an IT consultant for the past 26 years and I assure you that I expect payment for any amount of work I do… one exception is when I am working with a relative as you do become the IT specialist for them by default. That stated, if the situation is anything beyond a simple fix, they usually offer to compensate since they are also successfully business entrepreneurs running small to mid size businesses themselves. Another exception is when I do volunteer work for the church or other charitable organizations.

    Also as a stable owner, the standard fees covers a basic set of services and anything above and beyond those services are appropriately priced and charged. Because I have been self-employed for over 30 years, I also expect to pay for products and services that I receive from others. All this means I do not understand the concept that one would expect new additions to a product to be free. If one feels the service or product isn’t worth the price being charged, then simply do not purchase the item or service. It would probably be a good idea to know all that is being offered and what that price point will be before asking it to be free.
     
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  32. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    Although I would happily pay for any work from a company, if it's 3 reskins of a existing train for 30€ then I won't buy it.
    DTG needs to stop expecting so much money from taxpayers and realise we're not all millionaires. If SCS made this pack it would be fairly priced, not 20-30€
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Um, no price has been announced.

    Also, I dispute the concept of "fairly" priced. Pricing is a function of return on investment and anticipated sales; "fairness" doesn't enter into it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  34. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    This pack will most likely cost the same as the Rhb livery pack £9.99
     
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  35. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'm estimating, based on previous non route dlc, that it will be priced between $15-25.
    It's more than " 3 reskins ". According to the last stream which I finally got around to, it will involve some repaints, new scenarios, lots of additional services, some welcome fixes for the SD40, and some new features, at least one of which DTG wants to be a special " surprise. "
    In my opinion, that makes it worth a few bucks. But, as always, to each his own.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  36. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the SD40 fixes that should've been made for the original from, like, NEARLY A YEAR AGO (promised or not).

    Nevertheless, whether or not if this expansion pack is worth it, rather wait and see for the preview to see if it's still worth getting it. (might still get it for the SD40, but that's it)
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not even that, actually. The upgraded SD40 will appear in this pack on SPG in CSX livery, but the one in Clinchfield will remain just as it was until..... next year? Next decade? The second coming of Elvis? (This notwithstanding Matt's statement in the CRR preview stream that they had proper horn recordings which would be released as an update "soon."
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  38. Choo choo

    Choo choo Well-Known Member

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    With that logic we would start paying for preservation updates.

    Edit: not that I'm against paying for something that took extra work as you said, but the problem occurs when said work was not something people paid for in the past.
     
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  39. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Not much speculation on what this special surprise will be on the forum, such is the apparent disinterest in this pack. The surprise we were shown was some animated railfans (including triplets in their matching smart skirts and blouses, looking like they had been dragged by their boss from the yard office to see the unveiling of the new paint job on the loco :D), so I think the other surprise is animated diggers elsewhere on the track. There are lots of roadworks and groundworks going on near the track so that would liven up the scenery.
     
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  40. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, I believe he did say that the SD40 fixes would be ported to the CRR version when that route is next looked at. Of course that could be a while, as you say.
     
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  41. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, the CSX-S version will get these fixes when the expansion pack releases. While the CRR counterpart, who knows when that's gonna get updated, along with other updates for the route as well.
     
  42. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    I'm still undecided what to think of this pack. I like the idea of gameplay enhancements if there are new possibilities and techniques available in the meantime- which is clearly the case here. My main interest would be SKA which I originally liked but always found its timetable and countless empty sidings plain dead boring. Adding some new S-Bahn services is a start (although I wonder why they haven't been there in the first case) and to me Joe has already proven his talent to design fantastic recreations of railway action to be interested.
    However SPG and BKL are among my least played routes and I doubt this could change with the pack.
    So I think I'll be looking forward to further information and then digging my old 1€ = at least 1 hour of gameplay rule out before I would consider a purchase. I have a feeling this could get close...
     
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  43. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I was told once everyone has the right to an opinion whether you like it or not. Also if their were no 'whining and complaining' the game would advance evenly more slowly than it is at present.

    I think he was to. For me I won't touch another route until we get the preserved updates. DTG, release the updates then I will have a look.
     
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  44. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Well-Known Member

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    There is no editor so get over it. Instead of crying, and saying you’ll make your own expansion pack and giving it away for free, why don’t you make your own complete game and then give that away for free….sick of your moaning throughout the thread. People saying it’s a waste money but a price hasn’t even been released yet… give it a rest ffs.
     
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  45. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Here is the solution.... make it yourself and give it away for free! Go for it and let us be the judge of how perfect it is. Go ahead. Make your own products and give them away. Oh yeah, don't forget to pay for licensing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  46. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Lets say he did make it and gave it away for free, are you that petty you would judge him on that? Anything made for free of course should have an opinion but 'judged' wow. And you think Modders pay for Licensing?
     
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  47. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Now there's an interesting concept I hadn't thought of, but now it's got me thinking. If I measure each $1 against an hour of gameplay, there are some routes for which I've really gotten my money's worth, SPG, BLM, Dresden, Boston, WSR, NTP come to mind. I'm sure there are more. A few, which I won't list, have been loss makers, one or two I've played an hour or so and never touched again. So it goes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  48. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I just drove the 10:43 S19 Hennef service and got the double red standoff just outside of Sindorf.
     
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  49. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    What the heck does being a taxpayer have to do with this discussion? DTG isn’t a government agency so that fact you pay taxes has no bearing. They provide a product, if you do not think the product is worth what they ask, then do not buy it…. Pretty simple really.

    The final assumption you make about SCS would charge a fair price again is your opinion. How many sales of the DLC would they make, I am pretty sure their player base is a tad larger then for TSW. So if they have a higher volume, they could charge less. It is called economy of scale. I will guarantee you they will charge what they need to cover cost and make a profit, same as DTG. Anyway it is just your assumption so again immaterial.

    Personally, I will wait to see what all the expansion pack will provide and what price they will set and make my decision then… life is way too short to get wrapped around the axle on assumptions….
     
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    However, that route was "looked at" within two weeks, when they fixed the brake-valve bug.
     
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