Db Br 363 Brakes

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Nov 7, 2020.

  1. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I've been really enjoying the BR 353 so far, and I think it's one of the finest locos that has been made for TSW.

    The one thing I can't get the hang of is the train brake. It seems to be far, far too sensitive.

    Applying the brake for half a second and then bringing it back to lap seems to apply the brakes extremely heavily. I'd have expected such a gradual application to slow the train gently as opposed to skidding to a stand.

    The absence of a manual once again doesn't help. I really wish DTG would provide documentation for their products...
     
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  2. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    In this stream Matt explains the BR 363 brakes in detail (starts at 17m40s). ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
  3. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    And it is a model by TSG, not DTG as far as I am aware.
     
  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if it’s entirely a TSG model but if they set up the brakes you can be pretty confident that they are acting realistically.
     
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  5. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    Steam states that DTG is both, developer and publisher for the BR 363.
    For example, Isle of Wight states that Rivet Games is the developer and DTG is just the publisher.

    I don't think TSG made the shunter.
    If TSG developed the BR 363, or at least parts of it, it should say DTG and/or TSG, I am not 100% sure.
    But I am 100% sure that the BR 363 is absolutely awesome and I really love it, no matter who developed it. ;)
     
  6. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    TSG did the sound and some setup (throttle and brake lever handling) but not the entire thing. That's a DTG product with some external help.
     
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  7. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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  8. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    IMHO the break works better when using the mouse instead of keyboard.. How to break was mentioned by Maik in a different thread.

    Those streams are not categorized at all to count as documentation for me but that might be a German thing. I go so far to say that it has become a bad and to me lazy habit by DTG. When you can't translate it (is this a requirement by Steam maybe?) than publish english 3 page PDFs instead of nothing ... ;-)
     
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  9. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification, very nice model sounds and physics. Well done to all, immensely enjoying this release.
     
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  10. daveking8

    daveking8 Member

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    I have just purchased the DB BR 363 in the sale. Have done the tutorial okay, but on the first two scenarios I have had trouble with the brakes not releasing when coupling to wagons. Am I doing something wrong ? The brake pipe gets up to 5 and won't reduce enough to move the train, even at maximum throttle ! Help !
     
  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Don‘t quite understand what‘s going on on your end. Brake pipe pressure of 5 bar means the brakes are released under normal circumstances. Some questions to narrow down the problem:
    1. What does the brake gauge for the brake cylinder say?
    2. Did you put the train brake into the release position at any point instead of the running position?
    3. Did you wait a sufficient amount of time for the brakes on the cars/coaches to come off? A good indicator for this is when the compressor on the loco stops filling up the main reservoir.
     
  12. daveking8

    daveking8 Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I may have put the train brake into the release position. It was the brake cylinder that was reaching 5 bar, I'll try again tomorrow :)
     
  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Parked wagons have an empty brake pipe and cylinders: it takes some time for the engine's compressor to recharge them
     
  14. daveking8

    daveking8 Member

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    Have just given the 363 another try - this time with success ! the trick is not to press the brake controller too far when releasing the brakes. It requires slow and steady presses to reach the driving position - and not to get to release = big trouble.
    Thanks again :)
     
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  15. graham.haddon

    graham.haddon Well-Known Member

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    You can also reduce the brake pressure on the loco itself so the wheels don't lock up under heavy braking
     
  16. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I recently purchased Rush Hour Deluxe Collection in the Xbox New Year Lunar Sale. I've so far enjoyed operating the BR 363 on Nahverkehr Dresden and too found the brakes to require somewhat precise handling. I did a search and found DTG have previously produced a manual for the BR 361. (From what I've read the BR 362 and 363 are a batch of the 'V60' locomotives with modifications including the 12 cylinder Caterpillar engine.)

    https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/325994/manuals/DB_BR361_Manual_EN.pdf?t=1467971521
     
  17. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Link does not work.
     
  18. raretrack

    raretrack Well-Known Member

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    Try this instead:
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Mind you, most cuts the 363 is shoving around are light enough and slow enough you can rely on the loco brake alone, which is much easier (in US yards, frequently they don't bother connecting the air hoses for short rakes).
     
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  20. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The same problem occurred to me on Riesa-Dresden Chemical Plant Tutorial level where I stopped to early & derailed a Zacns wagon which caused me to fail the DB BR 363 DBB Blue Paint
     
  21. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    And where or how would you do that?

    EDIT: It is meant as a serious question. I´m a rookie on PS4 and searched the whole forum to get the 363 brake figured. I´ve managed to release the brakes so far on a coupled train, but never figured how NOT to slip the wheels on even very delicate brake input.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
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  22. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Is that because you are using the loco brake instead of the train brake?
     
  23. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Always train brake.
     
  24. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    The 363 brakes require very sensitive input. The time needed to reach a full service application is only 4 seconds! Try filling the brake cylinders with no more than 2bar. You can brake harder at speed (for example brake cylinders at 3bar to get from 20km/h to 10km/h) but need to start releasing the brakes then to avoid the wheels locking up as you stop.
     
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  25. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Lamplight, for the answer. I have to rely on the PS4 controllers with L1/L2 which are very swift on response. Maybe I should try to tweak them to less sensitive. Will give it a shot.
     
  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And, again, for just moving five wagons around a shuntyard you can just use the loco brake, which is much more forgiving. The train brake isn't really necessary except for heavy trains or at road speeds.
     
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  27. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Yep, the loco brake is definetely better doseable for such applications. And best: the release stage actually does ......... release air pressure, even gradualy. Instead of overcharging the circuit like the train brake does at "Release" stage. At least on PS4. I´m no specialist for this stuff, but I can´t believe this is the correct behaviour?! And something else: In the corners right besides the driver´s seats are brake release valves, which actually release air pressure from the brake cylinders, but only as long as you keep the button pressed?! Hmmm ....
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Actually, yes: "Release" on German and British locos means "release stuck brakes by using (a small) overcharge." Not used except in that case, because otherwise overcharging will jam them up.
     
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  29. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your guidance. I´m getting there. I have the BR 363 only as a "gift" on DRA, but I consider now to purchase the loco. Should be interesting shunting on RSN. :)
     
  30. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    That link works just fine, thanks!!!
     
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  31. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    As solicitr said, it's prototypical. What isn't prototypical (or rather accurate, I should say) is the translation. The term "release" was copied from British locos where the release notch is called as such for the reason given above. In Germany, the notch is actually called Füllen (fill - as in fill the brake pipe more) or Angleichen (matching - overcharge the brake pipe to make sure the pressure matches along the entire train), which are much more obvious in their meaning. It might be a minor nitpick, but to keep things prototypical, one of those translations should be used for German locos.
     
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  32. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Please do if you enjoy the 363. The timetable for the 363 on RSN is fantastic - superior to DRA by leaps and bounds. There's a lot of working in previously unused areas and there's even mainline interaction (freight train arrives - the 363 starts disassembling it and shunting the cars - the 363 builds a new train - the new freight train is picked up and runs along the line). Both the 363 shunting and the new mainline runs are playable services.
     
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  33. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Very special thanks for your generous help, guys! :)
    I´ve got the 363 brakes figured and am able to drive around without causing too much damage.

    DTG built sorta swift reaction emergency brake test on RSN. And, wadddayaknow, I came to a stop before hitting the pylon.

    Train Sim World 2_20220206080811.jpg
     
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  34. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    On a second outcry for help: How do we uncouple/couple Dostos wagons?
     
  35. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Same as any other car with manual couplings. Could you provide more details as to what the problem is exactly?
     
  36. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that I´m not able to find a clickspot ("Uncouple") between the wagons, as much as I search for it. Buffers, pressure/electric lines, outside, inside, steel hooks ...... Or some hidden levers like in SPG. The target marker shows me a spot 3m above me, and no sign of something "clickable". Mind you I´m on a PS4 controller and don´t have the comfort of keyboard shortcuts. Hmmmm ......*head scratch*.
     
  37. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I usually use the external camera for coupling out of convenience. What I do is position the camera on or close to the ground (next to the gap where I want to un-/couple) and then look at the coupling or buffers (somewhere around there) and the coupling prompt comes up. The DoStos are a bit finicky, but that usually does the trick.
     
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  38. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your help, once again! I´ll give this one a shot asap.
    And BTW: Good hint from you to get the BR 363 as a loco add. This really adds a great deal of services and interesting action to the routes. Love it ...
     
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  39. graham.haddon

    graham.haddon Well-Known Member

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    There is a button underneath one of the windows I think that releases the brake only in the loco so as not to lock the wheels.
     
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  40. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Lamplight solicitr graham.haddon
    Thanks to all for your helping hands!
    Tell you what: When you start to master this little loco, it´s just big genuine fun with the added services on RSN. That cement factory is quite a gem. :D
     
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