Train Sim World 2- The Start Of A New Journey

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 4, 2022.

  1. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

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    New thread, same argument people, obviously something has happened in their testing regime which they won't tell us about, and why would they, let's not bully each other and reach common consensuses.
    Otherwise you will ruin other customers legitimate concerns
     
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  2. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    So in short, Dovetail games wanted to make a new DLC for the railfest thing so they would have something to talk about that people would be able to buy soon, but they didn't actually have anything so they just found any old stuff that they had made already and are going to repackage and sell it to us again? Do i have that right?
     
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  3. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    We haven't even seen this product in action and people are having a go at it! Don't like it, don't buy it very much applies to this. Nobody forces you to buy this pack, this pack is simply there to shake up the experience on the base/core routes, for those who want it.
     
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  4. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is the main problem here. If they're bringing out an update to make the three core routes more interesting, it feels like that would be a worthwhile thing for them to add for free.

    If new players, who only have those core three routes, are finding them lacking, I'd imagine that for every player who buys a potentially more interesting DLC, there are several more who simply don't come back. Saying, "yes, they're a bit lacklustre, but you can make them better if you give us more money", isn't going to make them keen to stay.

    Most people here can (and probably would) just play a different route instead, but getting the new players hooked is where the potential future cashflow will be found so making this a free update would be the speculation for future accumulation.
     
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  5. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    DTG has every right to charge for a DLC/update - work costs money.

    It is confusing though when some updates are similar to this forthcoming DLC/update and are free.
     
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  6. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That Will be restored when they end up a CSX route with SD70ACE which itself was reskinned from Sherman Hill version in order to be in line with the typical United States Canada freight railroad order the same locomotive then customize to fit the railroad.
     
  7. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Shame firms like Apple don't follow that. Their products keep getting more expensive.

    What would shake up the experience even more imo is if they were to release the preserved updates.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2022
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  8. Narkyx

    Narkyx Member

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    I hope they add more depot movements to the old routes because for example the depots of cologne, duisburg, Long Island feel so empty and lifeless..
     
  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Or at the very least, as with SKA, adding static freight cars to fill them up.
     
  10. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Just make your own game and give everything away. That's all I ask. I suppose that you too are a great developer capable of making perfect products.

    It's one thing to buy a DLC, find problems, and complain and/or make suggestions. It's an entirely different thing to ramble on and complain about a product that is not yet even available to buy. A product you have not actually used. It is also something else to suggest that companies give things away for free FFS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2022
  11. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    They should really do more to the Bakerloo Line such as adding more AI services, Improving the train sound, or maybe even get the Camera outside the station working, or else this pack will not be helpful, I know that despite the fact that they say Bakeroo LIne, was in the Rush Hour, it's still don't feel Rush Hour unless there is more AI Train, Time Table Service, and Passenger responding at the correct time of the day. Cause in some part of the time in the game, there was little or to no passenger at all.

    I really hope that they can really give us more experience of how rush hour really feels at some point this year.
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the Bakerloo timetable is the limited capacity of the game's dispatcher. Apparently they built, long ago, the full RL timetable for Bakerloo, but it always wound up in horrid traffic snarls.

    According to Matt, there are four phases or checkpoints of improvement to the dispatcher which need to be done to get it to work on Bakerloo full schedule. Three of these have been met. The fourth one, however, dynamic platform/siding assignment, is still WIP for an unknown length of time.

    Bakerloo is such a challenge because it's self-contained and you can't just run spare AI trains in and out of portals. Every one of them stays on-map and winds up being housed in one of two depots, and that is what can't currently be made to work.
     
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  13. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Bakerloo Line isn't a Rush Hour route. It's a core route. It just had the Rush Hour passengers applied.

    As for timetable density, what solicitr says above is the case, the dispatcher cannot handle it as of now.
     
  14. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Do what? Perhaps you could explain where in that message I said DTG should do it for free? Hint: I didn't. I used to be involved in mods a few years ago which were free but not a developer.
     
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  15. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    As I said before, I am not moaning, I am criticising a payware product which is what the forums, amongst other things, are for. If you love the DLC they are planning on releasing so much that you can't stand anyone else saying anything bad about it then you should not be spendng time on the discussion thread for said product.
    And I am over the lack of editor, I didn't say anything about lack of editor other than that it stops 3rd parties from making content for the game, which is a factual statement, not an opinion or comment.
     
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  16. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    "Don't like it, don't buy it" very much applies to everything if you're willing to use that phrase at all. But saying it as a means to stop people from criticising a product is just ridiculous. If it is a payware product and I see major and/or minor issue with it I am going to point those out to the group responsible for that product, in the hope that they either change the product before release or avoid making the same mistakes going forward.
     
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  17. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    You are the only one who suggested giving things away for free, no-one else challenged DTG or anyone else to release anything for free.
    "Stop making things up".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2022
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  18. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Have flagged. Good idea.
     
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  19. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    This week's Roadmap (and stream) should be able to provide a bit more information on progress.
     
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  20. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    What about the people who can't or don't want to watch the stream? Do they have to wait even longer?
     
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  21. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    “This weeks roadmap (and stream)”
     
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  22. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Well-Known Member

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    No, you’ll get it earlier by reading it.
     
  23. lovetrains 3628

    lovetrains 3628 Active Member

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    Thank you
     
  24. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

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    Don't we know what the pack already includes though, a new timetable for one route, three liveries, some fixes/additions for the SD-40 (which frankly should have come to Clinchfield first, not as part of a DLC pack but I digress)? At what point does it become okay to have a "go" at a product, does it only apply to those who have bought it? But you are right, nobody is forced to buy this, and unfortuantely I won't, even if the older CSX livery looks nice. But I feel one can still say one's opinion about it, no matter how "whining" it may be deemed by some.

    I think it's my fault for using the dirty F-word in my earlier post: I said "I'm sorry to say that in another game these would probably been part of a free update". Maybe harsh, and I know Dovetail aren't Rockstar but they aren't exactly a self-employed one-man bussiness either. Though like I said in that same post, if people are happy to pay for this, good for them. And I guess Dovetail know that enough will, otherwise they probably wouldn't do packs like this.
     
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  25. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  26. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  27. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Got them from F-Block
     
  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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  29. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    And after seeing these, and I still wonder: Why the number on the SD40 is still wrong!

    [Note: The 24 SD40s from CRR were renumbered as 8335-8358 when CSX was formed (1 got scrapped before CRR merged with SBD). And what I found so far is that only two units were in the CSX-S oddly enough (8345 & 8347).]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
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  30. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  31. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Seriously. It is NOT a difficult fix! All they have to do is alter the text file from which the cab-number RNG draws its range!
     
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  32. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Removed by DTG Natster - Argumentative, by all means share your opinion but there is no need to be so aggressive towards other players.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2022
  33. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Please stop the silliness ( and the language ) you two, or another potentially useful thread will bite the dust.
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think this whole "experiment" is the cheapest way for DTG to earn a quick buck. I remember when matt always says it's never just a reskin. Well clearly it is. The 423 is just the Munich S Bahn Version with the S-Bahn Koln livery with inaccurate pis and interior. A reskinned SD40 and 72 stock. Yes ska will be getting a new timetable but it's odd that when the new timetable was made for RT, it was free so I wonder why they decided to charge for a new timetable.

    For those who say that people shouldn't be jump to immediate conclusions since we haven't seen the pack in full, we already know what we are getting in the pack. It's just reskinned trains so nobody is really jumping into conclusions since the trains we are getting are trains that are already in the game.

    Also can I just say that those who are offering constructive criticism are not whiners. They are giving their opinion on a product dtg wants to sell. You know I find it extremely hypocritical when the same people who say that if you don't agree with someone's opinion, you don't have to respond are the same people who are calling those who are giving their opinion "whiners." Perhaps I should ask why are some "whining" to a person who doesn't have the same opinion as you? I guess it's not difficult to find hypocrites on these forums.

    There is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion people. Honestly it's like when dtg announces a dlc and a person may have constructive criticism of said dlc, the supporters of the dlc come out of the woodworks and bash that particular person. It's getting ridiculous at this point.

    Look if you like this dlc, that is fine. If you like getting trains that are just reskins, that is fine. But if a person perhaps doesn't like this dlc or has criticisms and explains why, please don't call them whiners just because they don't agree with you
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  35. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Right everyone suppose to have the right to voice their opinion, regardless what other people say here.
     
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  36. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    You've got to realize that the other side feels the exact same way pal. :D
     
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  37. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, am I the only one wondering what exactly are the innacuracies with the Köln variant of the 423? I've not seen a picture or much of a description that describes what's wrong with it, only that it is wrong.
    Making assumptions can easily lead to a misunderstanding.

    Many squabbles on these forums could be avoided if we all could be on the same page and understand what's going on. Otherwise just saying that something is wrong without going into detail sounds a heck of a lot more like passive-aggresiveness rather than feedback.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The interior of the 423 in this pack for starters is wrong. The interior of the S-Bahn Koln 423 is the non-refurbushed version which is basically similar to the db br 422. Matt did say that during the festival of rail preview stream so it's not like people are making assumptions. The PIS in this pack is also wrong being a copy paste from munich. The pis in the s-bahn koln version has a greenish color similar to the rro db br 422. But some Koln 423s PIS is also similar to the pis on HRR DB BR 425 as some trains have pis with a yellowish color. If you look at the first page there are actually two pictures of the Koln 423 if you scroll down which show the pis of the trains in real life. Also the pis in the 423 would have the line number on the left side of the train.

    So nobody is making assumptions when they say that the 423 in this pack is just a reskin of the Munich one because it basically is a reskin of the Munich version. Just because a 423 runs on both the Munich and Koln S-Bahn doesn't mean the trains that run are those networks have the exact same features in real life.
     
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  39. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Perfect, now this would've been much better suited if it had been posted earlier in the thread :D

    I'd also like to clarify when I mentioned that assumptions lead to a misunderstanding, I meant that from the perspective of a person who is seeing this conversation, but isn't very familiar with the 423. When pointing things out, it's not fair to assume everyone knows these details with the decals or interior layout or whatever, that's why I mentioned that it's helpful to explain those details.

    Am I the only one sensing a bit of irony? :D
     
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  40. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Won't know until we see it tomorrow. Sill looking forward to the stream, especially when matt is going to tell us more about the preservation update.
     
  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Clarity is a man's best friend :)

    Also i can't sense the irony
     
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  42. lux#4689

    lux#4689 Well-Known Member

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    -No line numbers on the BR423 (not added to the BR423, or timetable not adapted for it, as it does not show up on the station-PIS) will this be added?
    -BR423-PIS should be in green, not in white, as the ones running on SKA are not refurbished.
    -wrong placement of DB-logos on the side. The S-Bahn Köln-BR423 don't spot the big DB-logos on the side but only small ones next to the S-Bahn Köln-logo. (From the screenshots the small logos seem to be there on one side of the cab-car).
    -missing DB-logos on the Doors
    -wrong placement of pictograms and missing class designations between the windows, and missing 1st class. They are different in Köln, compared to Munich.
    image to compare:
    https://hellertal.startbilder.de/bi...433/354910/ein-kurzzug-der-baureihe-423-.html

    wrong, but not too much of an issue for me:
    . The Köln BR423 do not have LZB equipped irl, but I don't think you can see much difference
    . wrong interior for the BR423 running around Köln, but this was said from the beginning. Correct interior would of course have been better
     
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  43. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Only thing that peeves me slightly is the continued down valuing my existing DLC. it happened with the BR363, a loco DLCswhich you had buy if you wanted to drive it. But then they decided to release a different livery included in a new DLC. The same might have happened with the 182 although I don't know which came first TBF. Now they've done it with the SD40. Before if you wanted this loco in your collection you had to own Clinchfield. But now you can own it (albeit with a different livery) via this extension pack. The Same with the RT EMU.

    Is it just me that feels a little robbed that when you buy a loco or train set whether as a standalone loco dlc or as part of a route that they then resell it to you again just with a slightly different livery?

    If this continues I may have to review if I'm getting value for money from a loco DLC knowing that if I wait 6 months chances are I'll be able to pick it up included in a route or extension pack.
     
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  44. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    There is the ongoing practice of selling the same thing more than once, sometimes with slight differences, other times just the same loco. The same thing can be said for major stations being used for two routes, giving the illusion that one day they might be joined, but it is just to reuse and resell the same assets. It makes sense to do that from DTG’s point of view but I now have a big bunch of red bananas with the numerous Dostos, all the same but different. I’m sure the BR Class 101 will be sold a few more times too if they can manage it, despite there being other trains of that type in existence that could be made for variety. I don’t know, it is what it is, do you think there is any way we can change it? How many more identical Dostos will we be sold over the next three years? There are older and newer versions that could be made instead I assume. The lack of variety does stick out sometimes.
     
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if DTG can make new trains instead of making the same train that happened to be a loco dlc effectively in a different livery because I agree with redrev1917 that it does devalue a Loco dlc if your just gonna take an already existing train and just add a fresh coat of paint or logos and pretend it's new to justify charging for it or slapping it on another route. Sorta like the 363 for example. The 612 was a start for dtg to add some new variety for at least the German side of this game. I hope that continues

    The thing with stations is that while yes two routes can have the same station for example Dresden Chemeniz and Riesa Dresden, or London Commuter and East Coastway, the routes go in completely different directions. Perhaps one day we would get the west coastway and have another route that terminates at Brighton and I'd be fine with that
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  46. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It's always been common practice to offer different liveries for sale in TS, especially with North American locos. I see nothing wrong with that, I don't have the time, skill or patience to repaint them myself, so I buy them off the shelf.

    It's different with TSW, of course, because we don't have a consist or scenario editor to exploit the different liveries. But there's still work involved and for that you have to pay. It's the way the world works.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  47. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I have zero issue with paying, but for me especially with the 363 it's a case of I paid for it so why are they now giving it away within routes. It's a loco DLC if you want to layers on Riesa Dresden then buy the DLC like we've done.
     
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  48. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    The only way we can change it is to make our feelings on the forum heard, if enough people do then I'm sure DTG will get the message.
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    General Motors did it with cars for years.
     
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  50. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    £8.99 and launches next Thursday 17/2.

    I think it's a good price.

    Better value than the Diesel Legends pack which I still refuse to buy out of principle.
     
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