Who Think That Dtg Should Start Creating Longer Realistic Route, This Year?

Cathcart is an urban metro route really, so although it's a network in that it has two main runs (the circle) and two branches I don't really see it as a network in the same way as I would the north kent lines or other areas where you have distinct services interweaving, or starting and ending at varied locations across the route

The closes we have in the UK is BML where trains start and stop at different places (before IRL going off map to terminate)

If we had the Wivelsfield loop and were able to connect to the ECW then that would be "a proper network" of sorts... but yeah, all dev time and all "working out the complexities of varying DLC ownership"... holes they've dug themselves into that will be harder to get out of

 

DTG keep saying that making longer routes is not a problem, to a large extent auto generated but the problem as they see it is making them interesting. As far as GWE, when I bought it I was disappointed with it just going to Reading. Everyone has a route that means the most to them and GWE is that for me.

The GWE is essentially a straight from Bristol to Paddington and used to be the fastest route in the UK. I would have waited longer and paid more but seeing how DTG operate that was never going to happen, I'm so jealous of TS1. People are allowed to be disappointed, I don't think they were lazy I think it was a missed opportunity but what also got me was the era they chose which made little sense.

They chose the GWE when it was transitioning to be fully electrified. If they had chose an earlier time they could of had all the diesels at their disposal while not looking out of place (Diesel Legends) or they could of chose to be fully electrified and had all the modern trains, baffling as to why they constrained themselves, to me at least.

I do also think though it isn't necessarily longer routes that people want it is complete routes with more than one train. The timetable just seems false with Trains terminating off map imo.

 

Not a chance, you are getting one MNRR route, don’t expect another anytime soon.

 

We Definitely need more American Passenger Still, Even though it not MNRR.

Who gives you the right to say that, it's really up to the company to decide. I am just saying the truth

 

San Diego Coaster would be a good shout, end to end its only 41 miles with 8 stations, the F59PH is already built as are the rolling stock. The new loco with the route would be the Siemens SC44. We could also have Amtrak Surfliners and BNSF freight for added variety.

 

Personally i like high speed routes. Unfortunately the high speed services in tsw2 are usually around 30 minutes. That's way too short when high speed trains run much longer I personally wish they were longer but a man can dream

 

Maybe a little bit off topic, but I personally would rather have networks than an A to B route - with Riesa-Dresden a very good example of that with no less than 4 terminus for passengers (Dresden, Meissen, Großenhain and Riesa), plus an additional terminus for freight services north east of Riesa as well as the shunter service by the plant and back to Riesa. That gives a pretty dense and complex timetable with different stopping patterns, speed limits, and helps preventing that feeling of repetitiveness that we have on LGV and similar routes.

 

No, you WANT more American passenger routes. I could care less about US passenger routes since that are really a minuscule amount of all US rail traffic.

Really enjoying Sherman Hill even with the FPS problems because moving mile long freights is a challenge and what most class I railroads actually do these days. Would like to see Cajon pass, Feather River canyon and even the CSX running over the A-line.

Do we need these freight lines I mentioned, no but I would like to see them. However, I do not think my desires are so important that I can state they are needed.

 

I think it's just semantics, I often use " need " when I really mean " want "( as in, I really need a cup of coffee ).

But I agree with you about wanting some good, old mountain routes in TSW, like Feather River Canyon ( one of the very best of TS routes ) and Mount Shasta. TS players, one of which I used to be, are really spoiled with North American freight routes and locos, many of which come from third parties, like Milepost Simulations.

 

I wouldn't mind high speed routes like London-Reading, London-Faversham or Köln-Aachen which have high speed combined with normal passenger operations, but I'm not really into one-trick ponies like Marseille-Avignon.

 

We need you to stop doing that.

 

Had a nice white knuckle ride down Cajon in Run 8 last night, full dynamics 20 PSI reduction on the brake pipe and I was barely keeping to the 20 MPH limit through the section where the grade steepens to -3%!

 

I can see why people like them, the thrill of driving at 125mph and all that, but in essence the experience is this:

1. Start at a station
2. Close the doors
3. Apply power, come up to station exit speed
4. Ratchet up speed as limits climb up to VMAX
5. Stay at VMAX or thereabouts for half an hour
6. Apply brakes for station entry speed
7. Keep braking to a stop
8. Open doors
9. Repeat

My issue is with number 5 because in game I end up watching something on youtube on my other screen waiting for anything other than "ding" from the AWS.

 

They were voicing their opinion, possibly based on previous history. It's very unlikely that DTG will produce another route local to that one soon, so I would agree with them

 

There's no "we" in a personal opinion. I think it's perfectly fine if people are reminded that they do not speak on behalf of the community.

 

nice… my next run in Run8 is through Cajon …. Looking forward to it…

 

Easily solved by reading "in my opinion" in front of every response

 

I don't need to read things people didn't write. They should just be more aware of the words they're actually typing.

 

Then this statement is incorrect. There can be many places where "we" can be in a personal opinion. Care to rephrase...?
I mean we can rip apart everyone's semantics all day or get back to talking about trains...

 

This is why I was so disappointed with GWE, Reading - Paddington. If you start in Bristol Temple Meads you have then Bath, Swindon, Didcot, Reading, Slough, Paddington for the high Speed route, or did when I used to travel on it. To it would have made a brilliant high speed route with the distance of the stations I mentioned but hey ho.

I'm hoping perhaps we can see a similar route at some point.

 

It would be great, and it appears in TS2022, but I think in terms of what TSW2 can do in 2022 we have a ways to go to get that fidelity over that distance.

 

I also want more full lines so i suggest DTG does the whole RB31 Friedrichshafen Hafen- Friedrichshafen Stadt, it is a full RB line and the route lenght is a whopping 700meters so finally no half routes anymore


Jokes aside, i am quite happy with a route around 100km long. Longer journeys arent really doable in one sitting for the casual player, i have a few linking routes in TS, creating an almost 400km contunious Journey, but i only did the whole drive once or twice, because its really too much.
I also enjoy Network type routes where you can stay in a train technically the whole day, so with complete services, like MSB, the seaford branch, London Brighton, The DCZ S3 and so on.

 

Although it is doubtful DTG will ever do longer or merged routes if they did a career mode they could have you travel to the various stations as a passenger to start work to fill the game out and give some sort of accomplishment.

 

That is a great idea, hopefully the team is reading this

 

Who gives me the right? Logic does. Everyone’s banging on about US diversification, so how is 2 routes of the same operator in quick succession diverse?
Just saying, pal.

 

The Price is Good as it is Now, It's the Quality of the Route and amount of Detail that players are looking for, what one can do besides do than running a point A to a point B line, Which Dovetail isn't huge on their Quality ProFormance as long as they release the route as fit. Given Dovetail track record on TS is poor for route gameplay. Ask me, I would rather have Freight unloading & Loading areas along with Real Time Working Hump yards than Longer Routes that allow players to total control over. Better Ai and a lot of Road Traffic that the game is a Ghost town to.

 

Trans-Siberian-Railway anyone?

 

Which section of it? And be realistic...

 

It would be great to have the iconic Railways round the world like the modern Orient Express going from London - Vienna but being realistic and from what DTG have said in the past the only way to get more countries into TSW2 is through third parties.

 

Do you want quantity or quality?

Quality can be defined in many ways, but for the sake of this discussion, I am saying longer routes provide a more complete experience vs. a bunch of incomplete short experiences as many have discussed. The way Sand Patch ends on the northern end where it says "Ok, your job is done, another team will take it from here", it is so disappointing. I want to be that team.

Another example, I wish the Peninsula Corridor route went all the way to Gilroy like the TS expansion version, but at least the existing TSW route has a major terminus at both ends. It feels like I completed something running the whole route. I think this direction of discussion is really getting at the point why it matters.

For freight runs, it is even more important to have long routes as hauling freight is a long-haul activity. My favorite TS route is Marias Pass. It takes 3-4 hours to go end to end, over several climbs and descents. You have to stay alert for 30 minutes for that one event that really matters. It can be a challenge and having several such events in a 3-4 hour period is rewarding when you do it well. Just like learning to run TSW without the HUD. When you are done with the journey, you feel like you accomplished something real. But long routes like Marias Pass still allow for short runs as shown by how the Scenarios in Marias pass are broken down into 30 to 60 minute chunks.

The solution to this is expanding existing routes. DTG can release shorter routes but should grow them over time. Like adding the 3rd track to Sherman Hill one day - not all routes need to be longer. Either adding more length or adding spur lines or alternate paths - all are fine. But it should be done such that the route grows as a single route, not that you have to change DLC to enjoy the new additions, and the larger routes add scenarios that use the full route, not just the new addition. I would much prefer this over just adding locomotives to the existing routes. I want more miles of track. I have more than enough different locomotives.

I know there has been a lot of discussion about the technical limitations. But look, as a customer, I am expressing what I would like to see and I'm not going to get into the weeds about the technology. I understand the difficulties well enough. It is possible to expand the DLC significantly. It is just a matter of deciding to make it happen one day, if not easy to do today.

 

On the subject of American Freight vs. passenger... (and leading into route length)

I've been a railfan for 45 years but never knew people cared so much about commuter rail until I came to TS and TSW. I assume this is because most of European rail is commuter service, but also because more people get exposure to rail riding commuter trains in the cities worldwide. The huge majority of rail in America, however, is long haul freight, and the passenger trains most adored by railfans in America are the long-distance passenger trains, particularly from the past. Not stuff like CalTrain on the Peninsula Corridor or commuter trains between NY and Boston.

I'm not attacking anyone's preference. I enjoy it all now as TSW has broadened my mind on types of rail. I would love to railfan in Europe now that I know the locomotives, routes, and some history thanks to TSW.

This point goes in hand with my previous comment about route length. It is more reasonable for short commuter rail routes because commuter rail is often relatively short (though the intercity stuff isn't necessarily short). But freight doesn't fit this model well unless you are talking about switching activities in a city.

 

I would suggest that most British railfans much prefer the longer routes too - we really don't get excited that much by Class 377s! But they are familiar to many people and allow for busy urban routes with lots of stops and options.

I think most people would rather simulate high speed runs like the East or West Coast Mainlines or full GWR - but these are simply too long to be practical in the game and I think most people prefer to drive full service runs than just fragments - so they model shorter commuter routes in TSW2.

 

As a British route fan myself choosing a non British route I think we should have Bulgaria in the game.

 

Those "long routes" also have stoppers, and I'm sure people would complain if only a quarter or less of the stations on a route were used...
I'm also sure the "glory runs" of mainline intercity appeal to many, but without the locals and regionals and freights those lines would be dead so it's not quite as simple as creating 150 miles of track and running a fast train down it, the rest of the world has to be created as well

 

As you mention about commuter rail route is more reasonable, it's crazy that the upcoming Harlem Line, is half a route, instead of the full route. There must be a reason why the team decided this. Still, hopefully, they could add the rest of the line in the future.

 

Agreed. I got LGV during that last sale, and while it's neato-keen to go fast as hell once or twice, it rapidly becomes boring. I don't see much replay value in it.

 

Good point If DTG wanted High Speed 200 kmh Amsterdam Utrecht and international then Hollandstrecke Duisburg-Oberhausen-Arnhem Utrecht Amsterdam can do the job 200 kms 125 mi length 2hr-3hr 30 trip duration.

 

Disagree on Length as to Norfolk Southern Steepest Grade only 2 years ago it was shut down in all of US was Saluda Grade a 4.24% Grade in a Mile distance is massively challenging for any Railroader Located in Asheville, North Carolina, with its loops. Sometimes Shorter and More Detailed areas are better than a Longer Route Not everyone is into Long Routes Like myself. I worked 2 Years as Brakeman for Penn Central in the late 70's until 79 and Joined Conrail till 1998 and 6 years in Conrail Later became Hump Master Enola Yard and to this day enjoy yard switching more than anything.

 

I love challenges like steep grades as well. I really enjoyed some of the steep grades on the Clinchfield Railroad DLC. And my favorite kind of railroads are logging railroads where steep grades are everywhere. Sadly, these aren't modeled much in train sims.

For longer routes, though, my original comment made the point that dealing with more than one grade change in a single run is part of what I am looking for. Dealing with the grade changes is what makes it interesting. If the run is just flat and straight, then really all we are doing is enjoying the scenery. Having only one peak on the run, though, just isn't the same as having 2 or 3, or multiple undulating sections of track where you have to watch the speed and manage which part of the train is going up vs. going down. The Peninsula Corridor DLC, for example, has some minor up/down grade changes which keeps you on your toes maintaining speed.

Sherman Hill has a pretty good grade. Maybe not so exciting with a predictable diesel, but you still need to be on your toes, so you don't lose too much speed on the climb, or over speed at the top. In Train Simulator, I used to really enjoy running the FEF-3 up that grade. You have to be on your game with managing the firebox (and steam pressure) and keeping your speed up. To challenge myself even more, I ran the FEF-3 up the Feather River Route in Train Simulator. A long slow steep(ish) grade.

And yes, I enjoy switching the most, but seems that is much less popular with people around here. I am happy with lots of side routes to enable more switching and local delivery opportunities. Another reason I like Clinchfield is because of the multiple side spurs and opportunities that can bring. But the timetable and scenarios need to take advantage of them. Unfortunately, most timetable runs are just from one end to the other of the main line, often ignoring the spurs. This is too often true in TSW.

 

Do all your Run 8 V3 routes actually render track? Needles and a couple of others for me get nothing.

 

I will chuck in my two cents. I'm not a fan of long routes unless they have game play. For example, I will quite happily run an 8 hour shift doing a local turn in TS or Run8 because I need to know where I am and I need to do all the switching. Driving long distances in a simulator does happen with me but I can guarantee you unless its German with PZB turned on that I'm paying about 10% attention and watching a movie on the other screen.

I operate in real life and our slow little narrow gauge train with its three hour 18 mile / 28 km run is a lot of fun. Why? Because there is always something to do, even at our low speed of 15mph / 24 km/h you're constantly on the move, constantly observing and constantly manipulating your controls plus the loco bounces around and has sound and movement. You've also got the train behind you to look back at while still keeping an eye out front. When you're waiting in a station you jump out and check your loco, you might grab a broom and give it a going over or a rag and go polish the lights, brasswork and paintwork. These feelings and challenges are missing in a sim. You get bored staring at a screen for ages with nothing to do and just sitting there in Notch 8.

Paul

 

Matt once mentioned that the average player spends 30-60 minutes playing a game at a time (I don't remember exactly). DTG creates the product according to the needs. I ignore possible difficulties related to UEngine. Speculation.

 

Yes no issues here. Might be worth running the installer again in case it didn’t copy some vital files over from V2. Also check your licence button is still green and not reverted to yellow or red.

 

Nope, DTG will never introduce our (russian) trains in TS/TSW, because they need РЖД (RZD) licence, which never will get)

 

I hope that there will never be a route with scenarios or services that take longer then 2 hours to finish
so long as saving the game is bugged
if saving was 100% working all the time I would not mind very long routes

 

The comment on SKA sitting at max in the ICE for long periods is misleading - there are numerous speed changes and assuming you have safety systems energized, other than the LZB section you have to keep your eyes on the signals or PZB will get you. I have advocated more than once (no apology) for the WCML Euston - Birmingham with the Northampton loop included, so that local services could be accurately realized. Personally, I would be prepared to pay for coverage in 2 DLCs - i.e Euston - Rugby with the Northampton loop from north of Wolverton and a second DLC with Rugby - Wolverhampton. That way the services density could be modeled, especially if portals at Northampton and Wolverhampton modeled the branching of services at those stations (with those branches Wolverton would see a pendolino passing every few minutes at peak times). And the cherry on top would be the 3rd rail services as far as Watford Junction! And DTG has already done most of the trackage/scenery for TS.

 

Good point and how about the 127 km Hof Bamberg Line that has steep grades for Steam Locomotives but's going to be easy for the DB BR612 from Tharandter Rampe Dresden Chemnitz due to its power. Steam trains Double Headed towards Hof some are single steam locomotives

This one has a DB BR204 on the back
on the section Schiefe Ebene. This is by the German Steam locomotive Museum which does the steam rail tours out here.

 

ahh c'mon

Don't tell me if you had a Portuguese Route like Douro with CP1400 (class 20) or CP1800 (Class 50) you wouldn't consider bying it?

 

How about an international route like Porto Portugal to Vigo Spain