Liverpool-crewe 1958 Is The First Steam Route

Id be extremely surprised if the team was able to build simugraph using just 2 examples. I strongly suspect that they'll be a smaller tank engine at least inpart built (if only the physics part of it), and that we'll see a steam loco DLC within 3-6months of release of SoS

 

Redoing the track textures really isn't difficult, modders have been able to make similar changes within a few minutes. Building a new car or loco takes a lot more work to do than the ballast example.

 

Agreed - it’ll be released with 2 locos. But for me this is about the first add-on. Without the ability to run local services it’ll be a bit quiet, so adding that will be a big step forward.

 

Dtg is for sure not creating this route with all the tracks, signalling and effort to move on after release.

I think there are already loco dlcs in planning for crewe liverpool. The 3f jinty would be a good addition. The shunting part is a big question, since it has to be done without dlcs too.

Not sure why people think the wsr cl. 09 would be an option. This is the same dual braked shunter as the 08. Its one of the oldest loco models in tsw, so it gets confused with a vacuum only type, which is not the case.

 

All I am doing is singling out the only existing loco that is "close enough" which DTG can include without reworking it The only thing "wrong" with the WSR Gronk is the dual brake system, but since all the coaches and wagons are vacuum the unused air side can be ignored.

The 33 and green 47 would take a lot more work simply to look right: yellow panels and headcode boxes are all 1960s features. The later mods to the 09 don't show.

It's a lot closer substitute than a 422 on Köln-Aachen, or 375s running the 465 services on SEHS.

 

Yea, they all need a lot of work when dtg starts to include diesel locos before 1970. Depends on the type, the refit for dual began around 1970 until 1976. Some of them had major body changes, so they basicly begin from scratch.

I wouldnt have a problem if dtg sells the early version separate or in a route, looking at the history the cl37 for example is in operation more than half a century and had many refurbishments. The tees valley Rail Freight has major differences to the First Generation, which had the D Numbering. Also todays 37 still in service are different to the one of TVL.

So looking at the history of the uk locomotives, nobody could say dtg would just sell the same type of loco again. For this first Steam route i like the idea of not mixing the traction, even if im a huge diesel fan. They rather work on jinties or other steam locos and sell the "steam / diesel" timetable separate as 1960/62, which would be very interessting. Steam Shunters could substitute with the 08 etc.

 

I'm very interested to see what the volume of traffic will be on this route to be honest and whether any of the old diesel stock will layer in. It needs to feel alive as our first steam showcase. I am still very concerned about how the game will handle steam and pump out enough from the train. It's going to be a real FPS breaker I fear and may require a steam slider in the same way we have for foliage. I've asked in a few streams and it's remained unanswered.

 

I'm also curious to see how they'll handle refueling (water, coal).
I seriously doubt a full tender load will last for the whole day in timetable mode, so we'll have to service the locos at some point, maybe at one of the end station every few runs.

 

I am very curious to see how they will handle that. I'm sure they could reuse the coal loading procedure; the animation for the increasing amount of coal visibly as well as the percentage meter. Water could use parts of the diesel engine fuel refueling feature, maybe?

What let's me sleep at night on that topic is that they need to make it run on consoles as well. That gives me at least some security that I won't need a 3090.

 

Let's hope not. I'm running 135% screen at 1440p on a 34" ultra wide through a 2080ti and if I have the camera above the engine when it smokes I can see drops into the 20s from the 60s. Appreciate I may not be helping myself. I think console may be more puffing billy than full on steam. I could be wrong mind you

 

As I sat at the PC trying to get the Hump Yard feature working in Run 8 V3 last night (I need to RTFM a bit more), did cross my mind whether any of the freight yards in SOS will have this feature. Could almost be a mini game in itself.

 

That’s because those are poorly optimised particle effects. Those effects are not the ones they’ll use for steam since the steam particle effects have to be much better optimised just based on the sheer amount of them you’ll be able to see with a steam engine. By how much they’ll be better optimised is anyone’s guess at this point though.

 

Excellent.........Said in a Mr Burns voice.

 

It's entirely up to them how much they want to alter the effect between plattforms, but as they said in various streams, they want PC to have more options to enhance the visuals. I have my hopes up high for a good implementation. But more settings im general would be welcomed, especially shadow draw distance.

They did say tho how improvements will carry over, so I too hope on that front for better visuals.

 

The real endurance limiter for steam engines was water, which they consumed at prodigious rates. On a typical North American railroad there were two or three water towers between each coal stop.

A big reason why Santa Fe was the first American railroad to start dieselizing in a big way was the large stretches of waterless desert its routes had to cross, and difficulty keeping the water towers filled.

 

Presumably most of the services will go "off map" at Crewe. It might be that when you start a timetable service, where it is on the route, the loco will miraculously have a full tank of water. I assume AI will certainly be ignoring water and coal usage/levels.

TS1 has working water towers so I am sure TSW will have too.

 

Here is something for Matt - assuming he does not already have a copy
https://soundcloud.com/krodgerson/hello-diesel-goodbye-steam

 

Yep, hopefully they've "future proofed" the route well, so any additional DLCs will layer in without a hitch. I wouldn't be against seeing diesels either, if they fit the era.

 

Interestingly, TS also has water troughs on long routes, though this route would not likely need them.

 

I can't really see any of the main line runs needing water while working a train as (in theory) taking over a train at Crewe it will have been watered on arrival or not required. A fresh train engine at Lime Street would have been coaled and watered before coming back to the station. 30 or so miles of not particularly taxing running is not going to significantly sap coal or water on a Jubilee or 8F.

Where things might get interesting is if you have a station or yard pilot duty, with successive movements (until the timetable breaks) you almost certainly will need water though again with a 8F going to be a while. Maybe more of a factor if/when we get more appropriate size motive power for such duties particularly a tank engine.

 

Also, as well as working as a shunter, I wonder wouldn't a small steam shunter also be better for players new to steam traction to learn the ropes?

 

Exactly my thought as well. This steam release takes me back to TSW 1 when the first german route was released, the first british route, etc. Back when every route has unique, never seen before rolling stock. I already can't wait for the first new american steam route, german steam route... and whatever third party will come up!

 

If you look at this SOS from a business point of view do you think the route will sell more or less with a steam shunter or a diesel shunter? My guess is the latter but who knows.

 

To be honest, I feel like most BR diesel fans will be interested in mainline running. Even then, I'm not sure diesel shunting would really add anything that you can't already experience on NTP or TVL other than being in a different colour.

I feel like steam shunting, however, would be a very unique experience that you won't be able to get anywhere else (for a while at least).

Personally I think the first steam experience doesn't need to be watered down with diesels to help sell the route. The steam locomotives are the true stars of the route and are the real attraction. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to see steam and diesel working side by side.

 

I would rather see a Jinty than a diesel shunter for shunting, although on release I wouldn't mind seeing an 08 doing the shunting duties just as it would add a bit more variety and realism.

However I do believe it should be a steam route first and foremost and I don't think diesel fans are going to be falling over themselves in a rush to buy the route just because they can drive a class 08 on it, I would imagine something well known like a Jinty would be popular and it would be fun shunting with it.

As for a smaller engine being better for first time steam drivers, I wonder if the opposite is true, a larger engine might actually be easier to manage.

 

I would be surprised if a Jinty wasn't in planning as a future DLC loco add on for the route given how much effort they're putting into the route and how important it is for a wide variety of operations on the route, including banking heavy trains on the steep incline out of Liverpool Lime Street station. I would much prefer to see a Jinty on the route than an 08.

Also of the diesel already present in the sim that could potentially fit the route, there would need to be varying degrees of reworking done to make them appropriate for the era, some of which could be a quite substantial amount of work, and I personally wouldn't be interested to pay for diesel dlc on a route all about steam.

 

For me yes it should be released as a steam only route but for me there are plenty of players out there not interested in a steam only route and there are players like me that love steam but not that interested in driving these steam engines. But I can say for me if an 08 DLC were to be released I would buy it (after the pres updates released of course) as that would give an incentive for me to try steam. I hope it proves popular but if it just stays steam only then it won't be for me.

 

Yes, and I'll admit I wasn't even that interested in steam before (or even when they announced they were starting work on it), but now I'm really looking forward to the first "proper" screenshots showing the route.

 

A lot of the bigger engines were in fact newer and had quality of life features older, and typically smaller engines lacked. So yeah, the idea that bigger engines were more complicated or harder to drive is not accurate. It depends more on the year a engine was designed then size.

Maybe you're all for the idea, but I really don't think DTG repackaging the 08 would be that popular to the average player.

 

Thanks, makes sense that it isn't necessarily so straight-forward after all. I guess a lot will depend on how Dovetail implement "driving assists" on the steam locomotives as well.

 

I think it would, perhaps a poll would show us?

 

Yeah, not gonna work this month after what happened lately.

And from reading in here, I would agree with many on this that it's best to leave the Diesels out of this route (subbed or layered), until a proper pack for them is made if so (instead of reusing them as is). Besides, this is called Spirit of Steam after all and with the year that route is set, you would only go far with Diesels, as they are still being developed to replace steam. And just having them for shunting, might not be everyone's cup of tea, for sure.

 

You seem to be missing my reasoning for having Diesel shunters, firstly it would be realistic but my reasoning would be that Diesel fans might pick it up as a way of getting into steam. I'm well aware of that it is called SOS I was trying to think from a business point of view. There a lot of players who don't want steam or are not bothered about playing it but some might pick it up and if they get into it then isn't that a good thing?

As for polls I think you will find Nat's posts have disappeared unless they have comeback.

 

Specifically he is talking about shunters: something which can be layered in to provide life to what otherwise will be a pretty empty route. There's nothing that can be done about local passenger traffic, but at least the yards could be given some population and movement by including the extant Class 09- and, yes, we all know that the 09 didn't yet exist, and never worked that area anyway- but it looks indistinguishable from the 08, which was working there in 1958.

Otherwise, we would be waiting some unspecified (long) time for DTG to get around to building a steam shunter

 

I know it’s fun and or interesting to speculate on what other locomotives might be created for this fantastic new route; and not wishing to spoil anyones’ enjoyment in posting their thoughts on the forum. But why can’t we simply be patient and wait and see what the developers are going to do in the near future of the route

For my two penny worth, it’s a steam route, so it should logically have a steam shunters ie. a Jinty‼️

 

Your having a go at speculation but you are yourself 'speculating' it is going to be a fantastic route? It might prove to be a bug fest or not we don't know yet.

As for shunters personally I'd like the ones they actually used, 08's.

 

Would they even do that? Any steam shunters would be at least 20 years old by that time and had long ago been replaced by diesels. I suppose they could use a small steam engine, but why would they when the game already has diesel shunters that could simply be repainted in LMS livery.

 

The Jinty was very much still around, well into the 1960's so they would still have been a feature of the time. They possibly were not seen in yards so much but would still have been seen on trip freights and similar duties. I doubt any shunters would have still been in LMS livery in 1958.

I do remember Tyseley depot repainting the New Street pilot LMS black in the mid 1980's, very smart it looked too.

 

Silly me. Of course, you're right. I momentarily forgot about " British Railways ".

 

Repressed memories are a common response to past trauma.

 

No, I’m not speculating dhekelian, I’m simply having an opinion!
My comment refers to the fact that this route, according to the developers is a route to add ’steam power’ to Train Sim World 2.
Hence the ‘Spirit of Steam’ title, bearing that in mind it’s doesn’t seem right to introduce diesel locomotives at this early stage.
My referral to the route being ‘fantastic’, it’s a kind thing to do, to encourage people’s work, and to praise their efforts!

 

And so if I get your logic, it is OK for you to have an opinion but nobody else if they disagree with you or are 'speculating' which in essence is just having another opinion and just as valid as your 'prediction'?

 

Seems you’re mistaken; everyone can add their views, I think it’s helpful for the guys creating the routes and locomotives for us to enjoy, to know what we would like! At the end of the day, it’s a great hobby isn’t it

 

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Very helpful Chris, thanks for your precious contribution!

 

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