What is written there is, that ETCS L2 was tested 2002-2004 on a part of this line (not included in the DLC). After the tests, the ETCS was removed. Now the line is only equipped with ETCS L1LS, which the Flirt can't use, as it does not have Baseline 3.
https://company.sbb.ch/en/the-compa...sbb-and-safety/train-safety-etcs/level-2.html The mentioned lines at the bottom are all the lines that are equipped with ETCS L2 atm. More should follow soon (Luzern-Sursee not yet part of those routes).
Just watch a cabride video . If you can see normal signals, it is not ETCS L2. Edit: Finally I found an official map: Page 95: https://www.bav.admin.ch/dam/bav/de...gramme.pdf.download.pdf/Standbericht 2020.pdf
Thank you for your input! Sadly by reading that page using Google translate it seemed as it was one of the first lines installed with ETCS L2, but it wasn't clear the fact it got removed later. I definitely noticed the discrepancy between L2 ETCS and the presence of trackside signals but just convinced myself it was just me not being knowledgeable enough with ETCS. I will update my original post, thanks again.
I just saw the map and Luzern-Sursee is ETCS Level 1 Limited Supervision Route. In some cases ETCS Level 2 has a Triangular block signal sign this is seen on Gotthard Basistunnel and Schnnellfahrstrecke Olten Bern Lotschberg Base Tunnel and the Lausanne Domdossola Line ETCS Level 2 segment. End of those uses ETCS Level 1 LS that includes the Simplon Line Start point Vallorbe where ETCS Level 1 LS 15kv AC Meets French KVB 25kV AC
LOL, it's jumping in this video! BTW, 1 minute for every departure after a stop or a red signal, what a work around, very confortable
Just like Dinosbacsi pointed out above, even 1% holds the train still. Just look at the HUD, there is the red traction lock icon on the throttle setting. The whole procedure you are doing is useless, the 50t loco and the rest of the train jump forward excatly the same. If that looks normal to you, you might want to get checked. This is one of the few things that was working well initially, rush hour broke it and River half-assed a fix a few months later. Just check min 15:00 and 28:45. The train departs smoothly.
So you're saying this behavour is prototypical? I still have my doubts. Try to do a smooth start with the loco only. Even 1% loco brake will hold the loco so it's impossible to release it any slower, so the loco always jump. Anyway, this is getting off topic, so let's not discuss it here further. I will try to replicate what you've done in the video to get smoother starts, but I'm still pretty sure the physics are wrong. No train jump starts like that.
Yeah it's time to move on. The video definitely shows the loco is still jumping but the guy driving somehow misses it ...
Rivet are very good at modelling Locomotives , I never complained about that. However their route modelling is extremely poor in my opinion. I hope they make a better fist of this short route than they did with West Cornwall, the worst route in the game so far for me. It is a very short route with one locomotive, so I would expect a price of £19.99, but bet they charge £24.99. It won’t be a day one purchase and I will not be buying it until it has a sale price of less than £15. If their other routes had been better I would have bought it on its release.
In an effort to bring this topic back on track I wanted to share some MSFS screenshots the route, the scenery seems incredibly beautiful and the line does not feel at all like a busy corridors (even if it is IRL), I hope that could help offset the lack of trains and long distance traffic. Hopefully Rivet will focus a bit on replicating the mountains of the far distance to replicate the feel of a valley rather than feeling like a plain. Hopefully the short lenght will result in a more detailed and beautiful line. Also the MSFS AI does put too many trees, I expect the scenery to not feel like a forest IRL. Apologies for the informal nature of the first two shots. Let's see how the situation with ETCS evolves... lux#4689 do you think it's possible they are setting the route when ETCS L2 was in operation? How would that impact operations with the Flirt?
Where is it jumping in the video? Obviously we have different definitions of “jumping”. When the route originally came out, it would jump forward several feet when starting under most conditions. That is why I started applying power before releasing the loco brake. With the fixes provided, as many others have stated, the lurching has been much improved and I do not experience it with my driving.
The fact that it's jumping less than before, it's evident and nobody can deny it. But nobody can also deny the fact that it's still jumping. For reference, check the video fabristunt posted above.
Not going to argue with you, all I can state is I am not experiencing the “jumping” you describe and I am enjoying the route. best
And I don't believe it given the guy claiming your same statement posted a video and the loco jumped However let's move on and hope that Rivet learned more about TSW physics.
And as I stated - I do not see the jump in @redrev1917’s video he posted I am referencing. If you did, so be it. If you want to laugh at me for not agreeing with you, again so be it. But being at an impasse over how to interpret the video, not worth continuing this conversation. Have a great day.
Well, depends on whether one defines "thyristor" as including "silicone-controlled rectifier" or not. Modern multilayer thyristors as are used in the speed control of German locos from the BR 120 on have those, but they weren't a thing when the Ge4/4 was designed. Had they been, then it would drive like a TRAXX, rather than relying on tap-changing. "Ripple current" is a way of describing unfiltered rectified AC; in other words the negative half-cycles have been "flipped over" but haven't been smoothed out (which in old-school electronics required big honking filter capacitors)
Nice idea to take screenshots by flying over in MSFS. I also can make out a F-14 Tomcat. Meanwhile there is a free F-18 Super Hornet available, so anyone can fly a fighter jet at supersonic speed now. But back to the topic: the scenery at the lake will certainly be implemented well, because the team from Rivet has already created such a convincing coastline in WCL. This time it is not a swiss high mountain route but rather a hilly plain, but at least with mountains on the horizon. In any case, we remain curious, not only because of the fancy train!
From what I understand all trains that can operate on L2 can also run on L1LS as it is the same as L1 but only on certain signals rather than every signal, it will work out brake curves at the signal rather than adjusting the brake curves on the move as it does with L2. So yes it does have ETCS but will only provide limited information in the cab and only when passing certain signals which is prototypical, if they implement Level 2 then that would be wrong but not L1LS. From Wikipedia Pictures of how Level 1 works compared to Level 2, Limited Supervision is only on some signals not all
Baseline 3 is separate from the Levels. You have the different levels and different baselines. The train must be of equal or higher level and of equal or higher baseline than the line it is running on. In this case, the level of the ETCS on the Flirt is higher than the one on the line, but the baseline is not high enough, so it does not work.
Well the Flirt is not much younger either, but I just checked and it started production in 2004 so it didn't miss that time window by much
we can see in the screenshots: 523 038 - in service since 26/08/2008 523 051 - in service since 08/05/2013 523 055 - in service since 12/09/2013
I paid £22 for West Cornwall... A bet that didn't pay off. This new route will almost certainly be LOVE. It's a habit for Rivet. DTG isn't doing well at the minute either. Skyhook are a lost cause. At this point, I'm just going to ask Matt Peddlesden if I can make routes myself. I bet you it'll be many times better than what people pay £25 for.
Darn it, now I'm going to have to load up MSFS for a flight around Switzerland (after the usual 10Gb update of course).
Email 3rd party. Assuming it hasn't changed, it's partners@dovetailgames.com. Having said that, Matt's apparently going to make it much simpler to get new 3rd parties on board so maybe wait till then. Given you've written off the 2 big 3rd parties, I'd recommend being prepared to do everything yourself. And I mean everything.
No it would be much, much worse and never completed. I bet you any amount of money that it wont be better or anywhere near the quality of DRA or DCZ, id even say Arosaline or WCL. Sorry for the short reality check, but its a bit stupid and pointless to say something like this. I can understand the negativity about skyhook and in parts about rivet, but DTGs recent releases, especially the German routes, are really good, of course not flawless, but what software is? Dresden Chemnitz has very good rolling stock, scenery and AI, one of the best in the game.
About the track infrastructure i dont know anything how it was in lucerne between 2010-2018 related to etcs. But of the 2000 sold flirts by now, there are major differences in the configurations. The "olten flirt" had different batches, one of the same configuration is even operated by trans neuchatel by now. (Painted in green). ETCS "out of the factory" delivered began with the E2W Project around 2014 and was related to the Reference Flirt from Vaudoise, which are also ETCS equipped after refit. This is the Configuration equipped in 3 of the batches: Well im sure Rivet got the details to produce this Flirt and a nice new system in tsw2 with their licencing. Unfortunately its not possible to share / post any more details for legal reasons.
I need to do more stuff in TS to have enough of a background to work on TSW2, but luckily I have a team ready. I am very good at close scenery in routes (which is something quite lacking in TSW) and I am competent at scenarios (although we have an outside scenario guy who may or may not be better than me). There's someone else who can do signalling and large-scale route building, and there's another who does modelling - I'm yet to see how good he is though. This assumes my singular post has annoyed every developer of TSW content so much they'd refuse to come near me. My team have annoyed people in TS (we managed to get MajorWales to hate us despite us having stuff that could help him significantly, and the reason for us disliking us being a load of BS) but what I am saying isn't personal. I am sure DTG, Rivet and Skyhook are full of nice people who try their best - it's just that, while they show promise and can do things very well, it just doesn't turn out very well. I may be hyping myself up a little bit too much, but I do have some things going for myself and my team - the most important being that I have no shareholders to breathe down my neck. Of course, I may reconsider working on TSW entirely in the unlikely event Luzern is a good route and DTG don't bugger SoS up.
In the video posted by redrev there is certainly a fairly immediate start, but not the same jerking forward as in the other videos. However if you just watch the speedo you will see it does still blip (shoot up and then go down again) which is a bit wierd.
I didn't realist you have a full team. If you wanna get into TSW dev I'd say go for it. I meant more that I thought you'd be less likely to go to them given what you said.
I suspect that you will quickly learn what Rivet and Skyhook have: that developing for TSW is vastly more complex and difficult than TS. Both studios have demonstrated a high level of TS competence (which you assert for yourself), yet TSW has in both cases proven to be a different league
By no means do I think they're incapable. All three have positives, mostly in the modelling department, which is where I struggle. All three have proved themselves in these areas - Skyhook with scenery on Cane Creek and modelling many trains, Rivet also for modelling trains and assets, and DTG made some really good DLCs in the TSW2020 days. Any help from them would be appreciated. Indeed. But that argument doesn't hold up when looking at the good stuff for TSW, like the recent Vossloh G6 and the early TSW routes (scenery). I expect that if Rivet take their time on this route and DTG don't rush steam both can be good DLCs. Sometime I feel these companies are settkng themselves up to fail, and that's the upsetting bit. I really do hope this new Rivet route is good and proves us all wrong, but until we see it I am going to be very careful with getting excited.
From what I've heard the environment editor (OK, the track laying bit) is relatively similar to TS1. TSG has had lots of experience with the TSW editing tools before making their own locos - same for Skyhook (at least on the modelling front - they did most of the trains in the early days). I think the main bit where both have consistently come a cropper on is setup and simugraph; possibly because the tools are (maybe) nothing like anything in TS1.
While I do not by any means mean to demean Maik or diminish the excellence of his locos, I would observe that to date that is what TSG have (has) done: locos. Routes and scenery represent another learning curve. I am not saying TSG couldn't make an excellent route, but I am saying that for any studio to do everything involved in TSW well requires a lot of disparate skills. Rivet and Skyhook have displayed some of them, but rather obviously, not all.
I personally don't think that anyone involved in the development of routes and locos for TSW, whether at DTG or at 2nd or 3rd party studios, lacks the skills to produce quality products. In my opinion, most if not all the problems over the past couple of years come down to a lack of rigor in beta and QA testing. Issues with dlc are not being caught before release or, if they are, for one reason or another, are not being fixed prior to launch. Is every route and loco being rigorously tested on every platform and every kind of hardware? Not every bug can be spotted and fixed, but some major ones are escaping into release versions. And then they're not being addressed in a timely manner. Other core issues, like the save dysfunction, sound deficits, lighting and preserved route updates are not being triaged like they should be. Just my personal take.
My impression Crosstie is that the beta testers aren’t blind or stupid and see many bugs and faults, but the powers that be insist on a release anyway to have an immediate cash return. This could be considered shortsighted but it has been demonstrated again and again. This is the way.
Another route I won't be purchasing, certainly not at full price, I'm going to get bored with it very quickly at only twenty-odd kilometers! A to B B to A driving is not fun for very long without different layers, they should have stuck with another narrow gauge route imo.
For right now, we don't know anything about the layers and timetables? And Rivets record actually shows that their timetables do include often more than just A -> B -> A. For example Arosa has the runs where you change the direction of the loco which are fun and chellenging. So no way to judge right now the gameplay.
Ok here a thing might be worth a discussion: With this modern swiss route and the Flirt, PIS should be working on stations and train in my opinion, since DTG clearly goes the path of this feature being standard. And to be honest, even if not every pis is 100% accurate, i like having them in tsw2. So what you think? Will Rivet add this feature, or would it affect your decision of a buy / no buy if it would be not integrated? Just interessted in opinions about this.
Well I disengaged from this thread quicker than my mouth does dirty kebab meat when I saw it was another one of the these threads....
It would be nice to see functional PIS on the platforms. This would be a new asset I assume, I don't think it will look like any of the PIS that are already in TSW. But the tech is there and it should hopefully not be too much to create the visuals for it, so I really hope for it Is it going to make the difference for buying or not, probably not, but it certainly adds to the feel of the route, and that will be a deciding factor in the end. I look forward to getting more information and seeing more from the route
I'm quite saddened by how this thread evolved and I feel somewhat responsible as well... I was hoping to keep this thread updated as more info became available but I guess it will just be ignored by most now... beyond maybe the original post and few posts below. I'm particularly sad about how buried the discussion about ETCS is and I suggest lux#4689 to open his own thread if the situation is not clarified in future posts. PIS is one of these nice to have but not at all necessary things to how I play the game. So I'm not bothered to be honest. Personally my immersion depends more on the general scenery, and mostly train physics/sounds/cab rather than little station details such as PIS.
