Yeah it's a bit weird that the PIS screens on the Flirt don't seem to shown anything. Issue is, if they do not work at release, I very highly doubt they will work later on, as DTG will not go back to fix Rivet content, and River itself likely won't either. But I do agree with FD1003, to me PIS is not that much of a concern either. The busyness of the timetable, train physics and sounds are much more important concerns, and I've yet to see a Rivet rolling stock with good sounds.
Well i hope rivet works with dtg to make them functional. There is plenty of time and it would be an improvment to rivets content. At least it would push up their image of doing only the bare minimum on their content.
So for those of you who would like to know whether there are mountains in this route: Here is a picture I took today from the station of Nottwil on this route- I must say this route is very busy and after walking along it for about two hours, I am really looking forward to it! View attachment upload_2022-2-12_15-38-54.jpeg
Yes, but it seems there are no headlights, or lights in general, on on the screenshots, so maybe (hopefully) the PIS is missing because of the Work in progress. But i think working PIS on the in and outside adds a lot of immersion, especially if its very prominent like at the front or big screens inside the train. E.g. the working, scrolling and dynamic PIS on BML is a great feature which makes free roam and timetable mode more interesting. So i really hope it is in the release version
Would you please improve the scenery around St. Ives and Penzance, I would gladly pay you £25 for a more realistic design. But with all respect to you, any keen developer would have made a better fist of a realistic route design than Rivet’s effort. What surprises me is Rivet’s replication of locomotives are extremely good, but their efforts to produce a realistically design route is very poor. I just hope that Rivet will issue an expansion pack for WCL where they improve their design to more realistic replication.
I agree, based on past performance I don't expect to be surprised, but you never know some pixies may sprinkle special pay attention to details dust over the devs at RG?
Perhaps? But the length is the off-putter for me in particular, especially for a busy commuter and express route. I would have been happier with Interlaken Lauterbrunnen with the 800mm narrow gauge thrown in.
All of this discussion on the merits or demerits of all the developers goes for nothing until DTG fixes the update problem It is irrelevant that DTG has a fix for a bug or inaccuracy if it is never released. What differentiates the good from the mediocre is not whether errors are made - errors are inevitable - it is the recovery. We will have to wait and see if Matt's well-meaning (and I am sure sincere) promises come to fruition. Sorry, but I am not holding my breath.
One of my ideas to improve my skills before committing to building a route is to upgrade existing ones. WCL, LGV, Arosa and SEHS are on the top of my list. I think a lot of the criticism Rivet Games is justified; they are capable developers but shoot themselves in the foot in one way or another every single time in TSW... BR204 - Knowingly release it with inaccurate and broken physics, then refuse to fix it. IoW - Not a bad route (one of my favourites actually) but has bad water textures and the train is a bit buggy, albeit beautiful. Arosa - Calamity after calamity... Terrible scenery, buggy physics, stupid timetable... £24.99 WCL - Bad scenery, buggy and inaccurate trains, broken scenarios. Anniversary Pack - I haven't seen any horror stories, but I guess they couldn't mess up a reskin pack with some new services and scenarios that bad. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Rivet continually release content that shouldn't have been released, then expect us to like what is released. We, as a community, get excited for the DLC, then buy it, then go on a rampage in the forums after we realise how awful it is. Repeat. One of these needs to change - either Rivet get their act together or we lower our expectations so Rivet's DLC is acceptable. I paid £22 on WCL. I was fooled by the scenery and the modelling. which is generally alright except for some parts - I remember saying to my friend that it looked decent when it was first shown off. It wasn't decent in any way and I ended up just buying a £22 test route for me to put my 90s reskins on. I do not want to be fooled again. Until Luzern proves itself to be worth my time, my £24.99 will be spent elsewhere - maybe on of Rivet's TS routes...
I was really looking forward to this route; at last, a standard gauge Swiss route in TSW2. However, Rivet has done exactly what they did with West Cornwall. That is, develop a route in an interesting, really scenic area, and then don't include the main line trains which are such an essential part of the railway operations. In the case of West Cornwall, it was the IC125 HSTs and here it is the main line passenger and freight services. I just hope somebody will see sense and find a way to include some main line services on the new route. Otherwise, they should just title the route "Luzern-Sursee Local".
I rather prefere additional rolling stock in a separate dlc. And it make sense, so rivet can focus on the route and the features of the flirt. Not sure how it would end up with 5 new trains and a new route qualitywise. Its not even about rivet, same i think with dtg. Spirit of steam has 2 new Steam engines, probably because its a premiere and new core feature, but i got used to have 0-1 new train per new route. To raise the quality bar, i would even suggest to keep new trains entirely separate. However since there is not a single loco dlc from dtg right now i dont say this too loud.
Matt said in a live stream rack & pinion is possible in the game, you just fake it by putting the track adhesion to 100% then make add the rack to the track
Maybe I got something wrong, but the strong point of simugraph is simulating the traction equipment and electronics, togheter with other physics calculation, this has not much to do with adhesion, apart from the locos that have anti-ship system in place. TSW2020 used simugraph even if it didn't model adhesion at all, because simugraph "simulates the locomotive" not the wheel/rail contact and adhesion. EDIT/Addendum: for example in TS you could just put a number in a script for "acceleration" (I think this is an oversimplification anyway) or you could directly input values to match the acceleration and beaking curves of the real trains. With simugraph instead you define the input, so motor power for example and then simugraph would calculate the resulting acceleration curve. Adhesion doesn't make a difference
The idea behind Simugraph is to model mathematically all the components and processes of the actual locomotive. Rail/wheel adhesion is just one of these. So where in TS1 one would simply write a function Code: Throttle f(weight, grade) = acceleration rate, in Simugraph it calculates the increase in prime mover output, and from there generator output, and right through the whole propulsion plant until the the wheels turn. To maintain that approach with a cog railway would have to model a driven pinion impinging on a fixed rack, not "pretend infinitely grippy wheels."
Why would you need that though? The more in-depth engine performance and brake calculations make sense, as they result in more realistic simulation compared to a simple function, but a cog railway can be perfectly simulated with "100% traction", no need to actually simulate the cogs touching and doing their things. Just like the train staying on the track is not simulated physically either. In TSW the train doesn't remain on the track because the rails physically hold the wheel flanges in place, like they do in real life. The game simply goes "there are the tracks, so the train goes in the middle". So not everything is accurately physics based, just because the game uses SimuGraph. So I think cog railway could be perfectly simulated simply by using 100% traction, as technically that's what cog railways simply result in anyway.
solicitr Probabily I'm just stupid but I still don't see how approximating a cog railway as a normal railway with 100% adhesion would change things. This remains unchanged wether adhesion is 1% or 100%, it's just not part of the equation. And if adhesion is so fundamental for simugraph, how does TSW2020 work? It would like saying that if you set the adhesion level between the car and the road to 100% a game like BeamNG that simulates correctly engine, gearbox, brakes, etc... would lose the edge over a game which just uses values on its physics engine like GTA V. Also approximating a cog railway as a normal railway with 100% adhesion doesn't seem awfully unrealistic, if the relative increase of drag is simulated as well.
I too am optimistic about this one, hopefully the 26km = more time on the underpinnings. As for the Flirts, they aren’t the most exciting train, however they are evermore common (they’ll be quite a few of these even in the UK by 2025), in my opinion they are staple of the Modern European railway, so it is indeed nice to see them in TSW, and whilst they do have a fair few models, the Flirt could make for a very universal layering option.
If one might get interested: I edited a few of the photos I took next to the station of Nottwil yesterday, so I thought I could give y‘all an outlook of how this route looks in real life: View attachment upload_2022-2-13_22-30-37.jpeg
Saw that picture and are there Aem 940s Eem 923s running on the route. If so these are assigned to Bw Olten running local freight on Olten Sursee Luzern route. Long-Distance Freight like Basel Muttenz Olten Sursee Luzern Erstfeld Ariolo Chiasso via Old Gothard Tunnel Monte Ceneri Summit Tunnel. Heavy freight route is Basel Muttenz Olten Sursee Luzern Erstfeld Belinzona Chiasso via Gotthard & Ceneri Base Tunnel are run by Re484 Re474 Quadvolatge locomotives. Long Distance Trains Rabe 500 Basel to Chiasso Rabe 503 ETR610 Basel Olten Luzern Belinzona Chiasso MIlano Cle others are Frankfurt Am Main Hbf via Sursee Basel
Oh wow, the scenery is so gorgeous and amazing sight to see, hopefully, they really will get the scenery then I might change my mind about getting this route. It depends on how much assets and hard work they put in and the outcome of the route itself.
I didn’t see any freight trains, but at Sursee there were a bunch of wagons. I was told that there are a few freight runs in the evening tho
Fingers crossed rivet places a couple of static freight wagons, maybe a layer from BRD? Seeing abosolitely nothing apart from Flirts would be a bit jarring TBH.
I wonder if this will be another route like WCL, which will need last minute surgery from DTG to add in additional layers and stock to make it passably interesting?
I think I would forego the realism of simugraphs role in this route's (Interlaken Lauterbrunnen) particular case. And would you refuse to purchase said route if it were ever produced because of your expectations?
Looking at the scenery it has a lot of walls, I hope Rivet doesn't use one spline wall texture over and over like ArosaLine and West Cornwall. It looks really bad for such a long wall at Penzance station, where in real life there is a lot of plants growing on it. DTG used a really nice method for long walls in London Underground (Depot) and should be used more often. (the wall texture, not the cables.) Compared to Penzance wall.
The route actually seems really lovely, even the short section we're getting. I'm really hoping they manage to reproduce the scenery well. It's just such a shame they used the Flirt, as I would've much more preferred the older EMU we see alonside the route. But if the route ends up being good, then it's a definite buy from me as it look lively. I'm just hoping for a good scenery and a well-done train. Then hopefully they will make another add-on soon to add some variety to the route, either in the form of freight or any of the other passenger stock. I'm really hoping this route ends up being good, as the game really needs some good foreign routes.
Pssst… Simugraph is just a fancier form of fakery. Simugraph will do whatever the devs tell it to do. If they want a Simugraph widget to do widgety things to fake a cog in a rack by having the outputted power go to the wheels instead of the cog (in the correct proportion) and have the wheels at a permanent 100% adhesion then that can be done. Much easier than developing a new type of track behaviour and the train can behave just like it would if the power did go to the correct place. The rack and pinion can just be animated artwork then.
Rivet just posted an image of the flirt with headlights on and working PIS, so thats confirmed working
That's great news. Hopefully we'll get some screenshots showing more of the scenery as well. Currently all the ones only show the train and barely anything else, which makes it very hard to judge the quality of the route.
I'm fairly confident we will see another article either this or next week. Fingers crossed it looks good both the near and far scenery. Although TBH I am not optimist for the far range mountains given how Cane Creek feels like going into a void until the next terrain tile is loaded
found another picture of the flirt, this time with PIS, if rivet get this route wrong, i will honestly have no hope for them, this is my final straw with rivet
I must admit that Rivet Games are masters at modelling trains. They are also masters at marketing, all the little promotional videos they make before a release I personally like and create hype. What a pity that so far they haven't finished making any product that meets expectations. The problems, some more serious than others, such as the physics or timetables, mean that they don't achieve excellence or good reviews from the community. They finally have to change this and here is a good opportunity. Will they disappoint us again? I hope not, that they have learned from their mistakes and that they don't launch the route if it is not well tried and tested. And that they have the same good communication both before and after the launch. If there are mistakes, they should commit to fix them and not hide like they did with Arosa.
Two shots of the cab. Opinions? From the videos the sounds seem pretty good. The lighting is a bit odd, seems a bit too dark. The physics seem believable at first glance considering this is a modern EMU.
It´s actually realistic that it´s dark, the color of thw windshiled is a bit black tho- not that it´s a problem, I also liked it on the ICE
I also think the cab glass is a bit too dark, which makes it hard to see. But other than that, it looks pretty good! The sounds also seem to be good, but there were a few weird points in the mixing where it quicky changed tone or volume. The scenery also looks good, hopefully it's great alongside the whole route. I will be watching the release of the route closely.
Rivet has released a short video on the FLIRT Train Sim World 2 | SBB RABe 523 Walkaround Preview - YouTube
This is great. Obviously still a few bugs to iron out (like the grassy/muddy walking sounds in the wagons), but nothing major. Only thing that’s missing for me are the platform information displays. Really unfortunate they couldn’t get those implemented after also failing to do so on West Cornwall Local.
Going the extra mile here would really help rivets reputation, especially when dtg is supporting 3rd party more than ever. In west cornwall i dont mind the missing pis as much as on a modern swiss route. Well on the arosa line they actually didnt work the day i was there , but for a busy sbb route its just weird and not according to tsw standard we have.
Good point and Rivet Games would have learnt by now to prevent their mistakes on Arosa Line IOW and West Cornwall Local route. This line has ETCS Level 1 the European Union version of Positive Train control system NEC Boston-Providence.
The technology for the CRT PIS didn't exist when the route was made JD even said in both preview streams that Rivet was waiting for DTG before the PIS could work. What was shown on the second to last road map the CRT PIS is still not working properly.
I hope Rivet have learnt from their mistakes on Arosa Line IOW and West Cornwall Local route, but I am not so confident. Rivet are fantastic at developing locomotives and replicating Stations accurately, but the scenery in WCL doesn’t resemble the place at all, which is the same in places on their other routes. If Rivet get this route wrong, I will honestly never buy another Rivet route, as with many of you, this is my final straw with Rivet. If the charge £24.99 for this short route, I won’t buy it until it is heavily discounted. However if they release it at £19.99 with a 10% discount, I will toss a coin to decide!!!
If that prediction of yours were to happen which 3rd party TSW 2 developer would you want? For me, Rivet Games can improve with this one but otherwise wait for Just Trains to see if they can do better than Rivet Games provided Luzern Sursee S1 Luzern line goes the same way as Arosa IOW & West Cornwall local
I very much doubt that most of the stations on WCL would have had any kind of electronic platform displays anyway in the early 1990's, in those days we managed perfectly well with a timetable on the platform, or we could go and ask the person in the ticket office. Penzance might have had those monitor screens I guess.
