A few months ago I got TS2022 and when I tried messing around with the route builder, I found it very confusing compared to Trainz. During my live stream I was struggling to figure things out. I believe that it should be simplified a little bit while still having advanced features. That way both new and old players can build complex routes
I certainly agree! And finding particular assets can be challenging too. Having to find which file the assets are located in has always been pretty tedious to me.
There are many Youtube explanations, some better than others about route building. When I started I did adjustments to third party (payware and freeware) and DTG routes (always cloned first) such as added a siding, straightened a bit of track. Youtube videos enabled me to do this and although after a time a number came up where in the most part I knew as much or more than the "tutor" there were snippets of "well I didn't know that was for that". The feeling of amazement when I learned how simple it was to for example: do straight track, how to parallel track, gradients etc. was because I thought it was much harder than it is. Right now I am backdating a clone of The Wherry Lines to the 1960s. Lowestoft has sidings on the quay, an engine shed and turntable. Yarmouth a goods yard, engine shed, turntable and a fish siding. Norwich is completely de-electrified and a Goods station built, carriage sidings and engine shed under construction. It's a W.I.P and for my own use and enjoyment both in the doing and when it's done. In regards to finding Assets: I use a simple dodge - when i find an asset that I might find a use for I go into World Editor and click on the asset, then read the info in the right hand flyout where it tells you what it is. This info is never complete in that it doesn't tell you which Asset supplier but knowing what it is known as helps e.g. Grain_Loader_02.xml. I note this down and do a screenshot of the item I want to find again. When I have exited I go into Railworks/Assets and enter into the "Search" box the description (in this case Grain_Loader0-02, I don't bother with the .xml) and run the search. A number of options might come up or if lucky only one. If a number I do screenshot and print it out. I'll then go into the game editor, load testtrak and load up the folders detailed from the search/screenshot and drop the asset into the testtrak until I find the right one (this where the screenshot comes in). Then I write its details down in a notebook saved for the job properly sectioned so that I don't have to find it again but if I do I follow the above once again. It takes as longer to read this than it does to do it once you get used to it. Another way is to check shapes in a route using TS Tools but then you don't know the exact name for the asset. The scenario editor is daunting initially but while I would not say it's easy it is not as hard as it might seem. If I can do this at 73 then younger folks should be able to. Try and you might succeed, don't try and you will NEVER succeed.
I agree, I used to build routes in Trainz many years ago before transitioning to Train Simulator. Trainz in my opinion has the best route builder out of the many train simulators out there. TS20xx should be simplified in terms of it's route builder functionality. If only it had the same or similar route building process that Trainz features. Constructing routes with prototypical DEM (Digital Elevation Model) made constructing prototypical routes great in Trainz. There is a bit of a learning curve when it comes to building routes in TS20xx. If only TS20xx had a wide range of assets to chooses from just like trainz
TS also has a wide range of assets depending on your DLC library. DEM is also supported by route editor and you can import SRTM files easily.
I tried to use it several times since I got TS in 2017, and I just gave up every time. I had even followed YouTube tutorials, and what happened in the video was different to what I got. I had always wanted to make Ashford International to Dover Priory.
You do have to realize that Trainz was originally designed for those who wanted a model RR layout but didn't have the means to have one which is why the route building on Trainz is very well designed and optimized for users of all ages and computer skills.
I agree, Trainz was originally designed for users to build their own model railroad virtually, but as well as create prototypical routes of varying scales. It is possible to build a 1:1 scale prototypical route manually or with topographical sets of data including vector/tiger and 1, 1/3 and 1/9 arcsec DEM's from USGS seamless server. There are learning curves to route building in trainz, especially if you look into generating DEM data, along with different levels of layering tools. Trainz has an interesting and simple method of organizing assets, I believe most users can adapt to.
I am not saying that I want to play Trainz, I am only mentioning the difference in difficulty between route creation in both simulators. I am open to experimenting with route creation in Train Simulator. I would actually be interested in seeing if I can modify or extend the New Haven line or Hudson line in Train Simulator to include the Harlem Line as well as extending the trackage past woodside. It would be interesting to learn about content creation as I may at some point look into route creation or route enhancing.
There are literally dozens of YouTube videos on such as tracklaying, gradients, scenery, changing building sizes etc. Just have a go, call it “test” or an easy name to just experiment with. Then clone a route you want to alter and do the experimentation on the clone. If you make a hash of it, delete and clone again. Remember to do regular route backups as you go then if you make a mess after some good work you can go to your back up and off again. You will get a heck of a buzz when something works and it will.
May I ask why you clone routes first? Surely that means you can’t use any of the default/steam workshop/third party scenarios on it?
You clone the route AND scenarios. You can always cut and paste scenarios posted after you have started BUT you don’t have to do anything, I am only offering advice based on what I have had success with, nothing else.
John, if you open the corresponding RouteProperties.xml you can see which asset packs are loaded, therefore making your search easier if you spot an asset you like. For example G-TraX' Bessemer & Lake Erie (Pennsylvania Steam) Code: <RBlueprintSetPreLoad> <iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID d:id="879852400"> <Provider d:type="cDeltaString">G-TraX</Provider> <Product d:type="cDeltaString">BLE</Product> </iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID> <iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID d:id="879852408"> <Provider d:type="cDeltaString">Kuju</Provider> <Product d:type="cDeltaString">RailSimulatorCore</Product> </iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID> <iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID d:id="879852416"> <Provider d:type="cDeltaString">Kuju</Provider> <Product d:type="cDeltaString">RailsimulatorUS</Product> </iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID> <iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID d:id="879852424"> <Provider d:type="cDeltaString">Kuju</Provider> <Product d:type="cDeltaString">RailSimulator</Product> </iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID> <iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID d:id="879852432"> <Provider d:type="cDeltaString">RSDL</Provider> <Product d:type="cDeltaString">Foliage01</Product> </iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID> </RBlueprintSetPreLoad> <AuthoredLanguage d:type="cDeltaString">en</AuthoredLanguage> <Version d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000000F03F" d:precision="string">1</Version> <TimeZone d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="0000000000000000" d:precision="string">0</TimeZone> <SummerTime d:type="sFloat32" d:alt_encoding="000000000020AC40" d:precision="string">3600</SummerTime> <HasTimeZoneSet d:type="bool">0</HasTimeZoneSet> <HasSpeedsigns d:type="bool">1</HasSpeedsigns> <WorkshopId d:type="sUInt64">0</WorkshopId> <WorkshopBy d:type="sUInt64">0</WorkshopBy> <WorkshopTags d:type="cDeltaString"></WorkshopTags>
There are several main challenges with the TS editor vs. Trainz. Main one is lack of assets. You can tick the DLC you own and hope the original author has not stopped the items from being manipulated in the editor. Many assets are custom structures e.g. complete stations which do not fit anywhere else. There is no effective search engine to find, say, a goods shed - which could also be in one of the several different categories. Finally if you do get the route built and want to share it, any end user has to own or have installed all the DLC and other assets you may have referenced. Compare that to the N3V Download Station which has thousands of potential assets, some are a bit old but many are excellent. Terrain texturing. An old chestnut of mine. Firstly you are limited to the texture set you pick when setting up the route. Not easy or practical to add further textures. The tools are clunky and awful. Very hard to blend two or more textures together and there is no copy and paste capability to cover large areas quickly. No wireframe mode means laying track under terrain can be awkward as you can’t see the very faint easement lines, even worse trying to do tunnels. However it has to be said creating the tunnel portal area in TS is easier rather than the dig hole system in Trainz which can leave large see through gaps to cover. TS is not very good for doing model railway style routes. So while Trainz provides a relatively poor driving experience it does win hands down for route building. The last significant changes to the TS editor were something like 8 years ago, DTG seem to have little or no interest in improving or updating it. In fact I’m sure I recall someone from the company remarking in the past, that they have better things to spend development time on something used by a small percentage of customers, despite the fact new routes and scenarios keep the game alive.
Uhh, I hate to be the jerk with a heart of jerk, but realistically, the editor is NOT that hard to use. Plus, if you're having so much difficulty, then look for tutorials on YouTube. That can't be too hard right?
No offense, but I find the Trainz route builder to be annoying. Making curves in Train Simulator is far easier than making curves in Trainz as Trainz makes them look really horrible.
I gave up making scenarios and route building. It's one of those editors that is easy to use once you understand its odd little ways. You either get it or you don't. Despite watching hours of tutorials and many late nights with trial and error efforts, I admitted defeat.
It can be learnt but it is very difficult to work with. It hasn't really been updated since Rail Simulator and that's probably the cause of the problem. It'q just not a good experience. You're in luck - myself and my friends are building it, as well as to Ramsgate, and the Marshlink Line.
I’ve been having a go at making scenarios and have to say this is one area where definite improvement is needed. For starters you shouldn’t have to place consists down individually in the world like a model railway. There should be a 2D consist editor like MSTS had then you can set the time you want the train to spawn, either at a portal or a particular location. It should also be possible to set up a proper timetable, maybe not for the whole day but something similar to Zusi 2, then when you finish one run you can jump across to another train. How about it, DTG? Is there any love left in the company for your primary product or have backs been turned with all eyes now on TSW?
Rewriting the editor will not happen. It's there since Rail Simulator days and was coded by Kuju, as 90% of the whole game code you're playing right now. DTG bought it and made small adjustments to the UI, introduced new features and patches, included optional SilverLining™ weather engine. And people have been using this editor ever since, creating everything that's out there. It just won't happen to a classic game - unless the community decides to code an independent editor, like they did for MSTS. The route/scenario files format is pretty much self-explaining. But I doubt anyone would make an effort to spend months on coding a substitute editor for a few people. Concerning Timetable. The Free Roam offers many possibilities. For example Not.Silent uses it to create scenarios where you're changing trains mid-scenario. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1229295574 Of course, complex timetables as in Zusi3 are not possible, because TS is scenario based. Zusi is not, by design.
You are of course quite right Torfmeister, it is what it is. Sadly, as I said, I feel DTG now have little love or time left for Classic despite the many advantages over World.
They'll concentrate on producing content. And, yes there are times where I wish for a fast 2D editor, especially for placing consists or basic track layout. One thing I'd really like to see when you're placing large consists, is to have the object handle point at the front of the consist not in the middle. But then, there is workarounds.
