Since this route was launched I have always heard a lot of complaints from community members, so I get the impression that few people like it. Ok, it's obvious that it lacks a lot of traffic and that's a very negative point because it doesn't feel too lively but still, my opinion is that it has a lot of good things. One complaint I don't understand is about the sounds. This is the best thing and makes it very immersive for me. With the windows open and a good pair of headphones, listening to the sound of the train with the screeching on the curves, especially in the tunnel with that reverb they have put on it is an amazing experience and very different to any other TSW route. Also when the wheels go over of rail joints and junctions it sounds great! I really love this route and always enjoy going from one end to the other.
I wouldn't exactly say I love it but I do occasionally like to have a drive of it every now and then. It's a nice route, something a bit different, although does have its issues - mainly clipping at stations and the timetable. It's nicer IMO now it has the RH passengers.
I hate not seeing a d**n thing while driving underground* *except some concrete walls So I'm not a big fan of Bakerloo. Remember WoS Circle line, much better experience back then.
I drove it very often when it was released. Since they announced the timetable wouldn't be updated, I lost interest completely.
It doesn't have rush hour I don't think. I think it's just the uplift to 100. Easy way to tell I believe Cameron is if you see patterns on clothing as originals didn't have I don't think
I may have missed something but as far as I know, Matt said that there was a specific problem with the dispatcher at Bakerloo and that they were not going to be able to increase services for now. But in the future it might be possible, I never heard that it was totally ruled out as a possibility.
Yup. I don't think it was officially announced but seems to have been quietly dropped. At least until there's significant changes to the dispatcher. Matt's mentioned it multiple times on the streams (IIRC it was brought up in the recent end of year Q&A). This is in relation to the timetable with 400-500 services which Matt was working on shortly before TSW2 released.
The lack of traffic hasn't really bothered me since obviously for large chunks of the route you can't even see the other track (and I don't play as a "driver-for-a-day" much), sound immersion is much better than a lot of other routes but the lighting is lacking (which is critical for trying to spot speed boards in HUD-less mode), and the timetable is very tight (and I still haven't mastered the last-minute max-brake stop to be able to make up the time).
Tbh, I just find it hard to get excited about underground trains, I guess they just don't catch my interest as much. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed playing the route, I just find it hard to choose it over a more conventional route.
As a frequent commuter on LU, it's the sounds that bother me most. I'm sure TfL and Londoners would love to have a peaceful, smooth commute, like the game demonstrates. It's missing a lot of clickety clack and rubbing and has unusual motor sounds that suddenly shut off when coming down the power. I can wait for updates to the dispatcher/timetable but I just can't go near it with the current sounds.
The sounds for the 72 stock were basically recycled from the class 455 dlc for ts which released in 2011. The difference in sounds of the line in real life compared to the game is night and day frankly
As I say, with the windows open and the volume turned up I find it very noisy.... It's even louder IRL? I have never travelled on this line, when I go to London one of the things I plan to do is this. Also travel in a Javelin, a 465, a 166, a 314, do a railtour in some diesel locomotive....
Yes, precisely that is the one which announced that the extra services expansion would cease development. Cheers
I would say, rather, suspended until the necessary dispatcher upgrade has been done: "as soon as the improvements to the dispatcher and other associated systems is complete we'll have the expansion to Bakerloo services as quickly as possible."
Sorry but it says that the update is stuck behind 3-4 core updates, that doesn’t mean cease development that means there’s a blocker and it’s pending other items first.
Bakerloo is nice in small doses, the tube stations are done very well and nicely atmospheric. Sounds, yes could definitely do with an overhaul. Now that Covid is easing, would we be asking too much of DTG to send the audio guy out on a field trip to get some decent samples and do a remix. And as with most other routes it is slightly too dark in the tunnels, what’s the point of intricate modelling the metal tube segments if we can’t actually see them?! I did the first Journey run with the relivieried 1972 stock, where you run non stop from QP to London Road and it was eerily weird passing through those stations non stop.
Pleased to see you are enjoying yourself. I understand it can often feel hard to praise a route you personally enjoy when others don't. Everyone is always going to have a variety of opinions and thank you for sharing yours.
The main downside of Bakerloo, IMO, is that the underground section just is too long and become boring quickly. I can really enjoy the aboveground section of the line (although unfortunately there seem to be no services doing only the aboveground section), and I wouldn't have minded a few underground stations like Rapid Transit has. There's not a lot of AI traffic, which is a bummer, especially for the aboveground section (because on the underground section you wouldn't even notice the oncoming AI traffic), but that's not a dealbreaker for me. And well, Bakerloo is a one trick pony, just like routes like Rapid Transit and LGV, but at least these have more interesting scenery than just pitch-black tunnels and several very similar looking stations. I don't regret buying Bakerloo, because of its large underground section, it is a route unlike any other, and adds quite a bit of variety to my collection. But I wouldn't be interested in another underground route.
To update from that announcement in February, in December on a Roadmap stream Matt discussed this issue in detail at 21:07 onward for about 4 minutes.
I still personally think the Northern Line (pre ATO days) would have made a better choice. Longer route, more branches = more complex and varied timetable. Overground sections not adjacent to or shared with mainline rail so no complaints about lack of AI. Oh and the scary narrow island platforms at Angel (depending on era) and a few stations on the line out to Morden.
Trouble is, it's mostly underground. They chose Bakerloo because it had the least number of underground stations (well, bar the Waterloo & City but that wouldn't exactly be a fantastic route for the base game), and Matt has complained about how long it takes to do underground stations (remember Dresden Flughafen? ). Tbh they'd be better, for the first tube route, doing the Central line or a sub-surface line (perhaps H&C and Circle?) pre-ATO if they weren't going to do Bakerloo. Having said that, i think they just wanted it to be present day so it pretty much came down to Piccadilly or Bakerloo. EDIT: counted the stations: Bakerloo has 15 underground + Wembley. Northern has 36 (38 counting the new Battersea extension), when including both branches through the city, 29 if only counting one of them. Piccadilly has 25. Central has 19. Jubilee has 13, only 6 if pre-JLE. Victoria has 15. Waterloo & City has 2 (obvs, as it's just a shuttle). https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tube-map-with-tunnels.pdf
I have no real desire to drive an underground train, not my thing, I'm abit annoyed that it's one of the core routes tbh, would have been far better imo to have a standard UK rail line as a core route.
Northern Line has more stations but would imagine there would be some scope to clone the architecture and reskin for the name and a different set of adverts etc.
I have to agree. As someone who travels on the tube every day, the sounds are greatly disappointing, it's what, imo, gives tube trains a big part of their character. If trains on the underground had first class carriages, they'd probably sound the way they do in game.
Must admit, I long ago lost interest in Bakerloo. There's just not enough variety or AI to hold my interest and that's never going to change. From my limited experience riding the system in London, I think a better choice would have been a section of one of the cut and cover lines which have more varied and interesting stations plus more above ground working. The deep tunnel " tubes " are just too homogenous and repetitive.
If the 1938 stock got fixed so far as the sounds are concerned then integrated with the 1972 stock so you don't know what's on the next train, the 313's added in for the Overground DC Line service (though I would prefer 501's!) and the timetable got "Joed", that would greatly increase the appeal.
I love the Bakerloo line, both in real life and in game. Have they recreated it exactly? No, of course not, but what is there is very fun to drive and I do so regularly. I too found the sounds to be so-so, so I downloaded ItsYa165's excellent 1972 stock mod on TSC and find that pretty much close to perfect for my taste. I respect that other people find tunnels boring but I can say the same thing about endless trees. I don't mind them at all and they actually build up a sense of anticipation for me, waiting until I see that burst of light suddenly appear ahead. I also enjoy the transition from under- to overground (and vice versa). I'm sad that Matt hinted on a recent stream that it would be a while before any more underground lines were developed (forget that actual wording) as I always look forward to more. But, it is what it is and at least we've got this one. Trains are trains, and subways are legitimate. Not for everyone's taste, perhaps, but that's the beauty of TSW - recreating many different pieces of the mosaic that is railroading. I find American freight routes to be tedious in the extreme generally (Clinchfield being the exception), of the toothpicks-holding-eyes-open variety, but have zero objection to more of these being developed because others like them. I just hope that Bakerloo wasn't a one-off. There is a very rich history in the London Underground and it would be fascinating to see that unfold. (Steam trains on the Metropolitan or District lines - yes, I'm talking to you).
It's not as loud as it should be even with the windows up. Heck riding as a passenger on the line is too quiet compared to reality even with the carriage door windows open. Sorry mate but you may enjoy the sounds but doesn't mean that they are realistic. Let's not even talk about the 1938 stock
But not all of the Northern Line stations are exactly the same so you can't just copy paste the architecture and textures everywhere. Also I don't see no harm if there was to be a Northern Line to have it set to present day with ato. You can still drive the train manually by turning off ato and turning on coded manual to have full control of the train. Kinda like LZB on the ICE 3/3M
If you got the era right on the Northern Line you could have 1938, 1959 and 1972 stock running side by side. Bit more interesting than manually taking control of ATO stock. Anyhow as indicated above, appears DTG have slammed the door on any more tube routes so the debate is a bit academic at this point.
Thats your taste and its ok. I like bakerloo a lot. Just nice with the "no hud" experience. My only downside is after release of the journeys pack, they still didnt fix the stopping points of willesden junction and north wembley (both northbound). Was reported many times. If they ever have a chance to increase traffic i would buy this even as an expansion. Beside that im glad they chose this one as underground line.
I personally love the Bakerloo Line. The Immersion it provides is absolutely unmatched, the amount of detail that has been put in the stations and the train is incredible. I really enjoy it, very unique compared to all other routes.
Loads of people wanted an Underground route - hence why it was made - but as soon as it came out everybody lost interest. It's down to multiple things. The sounds were a big one and are awful (not unusual for TSW sadly), being recycled from decade-old TS DLC (I believe from the 4CIG). Then there was the timetable which won't be improved, the lack of variety of things to do (the scenarios might as well not exist they're so generic), and the disappointment of having it instead of routes that would be more useful for the game. Some of this can be improved, but like the Class 313 door sounds, things that are incredibly easy to fix are never done because... potato.
Queen's Park to Elephant and Castle is alright (if you don't mind the tunnels that is) but north towards Harrow & Wealdstone the biggest problem for me is the lack of traffic including on the adjacent WCML (it's usually very busy here in real life but dead quiet in the sim).
Which as I said above, could have been mitigated by layering a suitably liveried 313 on the DC line services and at the least a bit of DBS freight traffic with the 66 running up and down the WCML. Heck I wouldn't have objected to the 47 running by with a rake of Mark 2A coaches, better than nothing.
I dont really have a problem with the sound. Its immersing driving the 72 stock, even if the audio is not taken from a real unit. Well if they are gonna upgrade this at some point, i dont have anything against that . The benefit of a busy bakerloo timetable would be the chance of running into a yellow or red signal, which isnt the case now. Spaded at queens park once, because i wasnt used to get a red. I drove my service with a delay of 5mins, so the other service out of the shed at qp got priority.
When I first bought the game Bakerloo was fun but it wore off. I still like the route but it could be so much better with a few tweaks especially to the sound but let's face it, never going to happen We are still waiting for the pres crew updates after they used the dreaded word 'soon' months in fact. I wonder if DTG had used the word 'suspended' would months turn into years?
TS 22 has it in the form of Metropolitan line and TSW2 should get that route in the future complete with Sarah Siddons Locomotive
Even then it would require a total rebuild of the Class 313 to make it up to spec for LO operations for a short drive between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone. The Class 66 wouldn't realistically add that many services to make it worthwhile and the Class 47 would look extremely out of place for a route based in modern times. I get that the Bakerloo line was probably the most practical choice for a deep level tube line but for a sense of completeness the Circle Line or (part of) the Metropolitan line would have been a better choice. Hopefully if we ever get a WCML or LO route in TSW then the potential layers would make Bakerloo more appealing.
Oh I agree, far from perfect but if we had a decent scenario editor it's what I would have done to make things more appealing. The 313 could have been put into BR Blue and Grey, would be good enough.
