Br 101: Resetting After Lzb Release?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by solicitr, Feb 19, 2022.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't seem to work the same way as the ICE3. On that train, all you do is pull the AFB handle back to Off and reset it. On the 101, though, the AFB doesn't seem to come back on.
     
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    IRL p 197 here
    In TSW > full AFB reset or maybe one of the ICEs is OK
     
  3. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Just checked the manual for the real 101.

    9D0850B5-1279-48F7-B9D1-62E52F093157.jpeg
    If the throttle is not at zero and AFB braked on its own accord, it is not necessary to put the throttle to zero. AFB will re-apply power as selected.
    Thus, it’s not necessary to reset the throttle in real life as I first suspected. The situation described is technically not the same as LZB Ende since AFB is deaf for a few seconds in real life, but I doubt that this doesn’t apply in that situation as well.


    AC7B374A-AC36-4D79-B265-837EB834CB2A.jpeg
    When leaving LZB supervision with AFB active, this change has to be acknowledged for AFB. To do so, put AFB briefly to zero and then back up to the track speed limit.
    This part just confirms what we know already.

    Thus, if AFB to zero and back up is not enough in TSW, then that seems to be inaccurate to real life.
     
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  4. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    This topic has always confused me. The LZB end procedure and resetting AFB becomes too much button hunting in the cab and not enough paying attention to what is going on outside the cab! Here is the procedure I follow in the ICE:

    1. As soon as the ENDE light comes up, use the PZB/LZB release switch to acknowledge.

    2. Set throttle to zero

    3. Go into the MFD and turn off AFB

    4. Set the AFB lever to zero, and then bring it back up to the target speed

    5. Let the train coast until PZB has fully initialized and takes back control.

    6. Turn on AFB once more, and then proceed as normal.

    Please let me know if there are steps I can leave out or hot key shortcuts. Following those steps can be quite distracting as I am dealing with speed changes and hot magnets.

    Yet another reason I love the 101 is the speedometer display that makes it easy to run under LZB supervision without AFB. LZB territory now requires my full attention to keep the train at speed and follow the braking curves. Leaving LZB is much easier and I find that I maintain track speed trough the transition better this way.
     
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  5. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    The real procedure is incredibly simple. All you need to do is this:
    1. When Ende starts blinking to announce the start of the LZB Ende procedure, press PZB Free ([end] on the keyboard) to acknowledge the end of LZB supervision.
    2. Wait until LZB supervision has completely ended (Ü on the dash switches off and B comes on along with the appropriate PZB mode indicator 85/70/55). At this point, AFB will become non-functional.
    3. Now comes the reset AFB procedure. All you need to do is set AFB quickly to zero and back up to the track speed limit ([F], [R] on the keyboard). That’s it.
    That’s also everything for the LZB Ende process. To sum up: Acknowledge Ende with PZB Free, set AFB to zero once LZB is completely off, set AFB to the track speed limit.

    That’s how it works in real life. As discussed in this thread, it may not be correctly implemented in TSW. The ICE should work correctly, I haven’t tested the 101 myself.
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The ICE behaves exactly like that. The 101 seems not to
     
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  7. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    What would also be interesting is: In real life, am I allowed to slow down the train with the AFB? E.g. 140km/h–>130km/h, can I just set down the AFB to 130 km/h, or do I have to brake and set down the AFB as soon as I reach the required speed?
     
  8. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    ICEs are the only trains in TSW to have this properly implemented.
     
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  9. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 on my PC is as close as I have ever come to the real thing, but it is my understanding that you shouldn't brake with AFB. When there is a speed reduction coming, put the throttle on zero, apply brakes to get to the desired speed, and then reset the AFB.
     
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  10. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    This procedure just worked perfectly on an ICE run. Thanks!

    For the 101, I had the same experience with the quick AFB reset not working.

    I still left AFB on until LZB ended and PZB took over. Then I had to do a running reset of AFB.

    I am sure you both know this, but to spell it out for those that may not have come across how to handle this: I had to put the throttle at zero, AFB to max, and turn AFB off and on (Control R) to reset AFB.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2022
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  11. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    AFB unprototypical full LZB Ende reset is to:
    1 Throttle to zero
    2 AFB to OFF
    3 AFB lever to zero
    4 AFB lever to max
    5 AFB to ON
    6 AFB lever to desired speed
    7 Throttle to power

    ICEs are as Lamplight wrote above.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2022
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  12. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is a more reliable to do that. I get away with not turning the AFB off first because the AFB is disabled when I leave LZB.
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    There are two very different answers to that.

    In the official Br 101 manual I linked above, the 101 is actually intended to be driven via AFB. To start a train, the throttle is at max with AFB at 0, then AFB is increased to track speed and the 101 accelerates on its own accord. For slowing down, the AFB is put to the lower setting. For stopping, the manual use of the train brake is mandatory.

    However, based on all I know through research and statements by actual drivers, that is completely inaccurate to what is done in real life. It seems to be that the manufacturers describe one thing in the manuals, but DB teaches something else in driver training. Or maybe it’s theoretical ideas of the manufacturers vs practical experience of the drivers - I don’t know.

    For accelerating, the throttle is not put to max to avoid the (in)famous super slip. For braking, the manual brakes (either air or electric) are used because of how harsh AFB brakes.

    In this case, I’d trust the reports I’ve found online more than the manual. As far as I’m aware, AFB to a lower setting is never used for braking in real life.
     
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  14. raretrack

    raretrack Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a faff on the 101 with a RailDriver because there doesn't seem to be AFB mapped to any buttons; found I have to use R and F on the keyboard instead.
     
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  15. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    Ah ok, thanks!
    But what about the Br143 and Br112? Does that also regard those locos?
     
  16. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    In general, yes. The only piece of weirdness here is how you access the electric brake manually (force selector to zero, speed selctor to the “on” or “1” notch, use force selector to control the electric brake force). There is an old DR training video for the 143 available online, which I’d need to re-watch to see what the DR was teaching back then.
     

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