I'll admit, I'm more tolerant of them than most at least in terms of the animations and how they walk etc, but I've finally snapped, due to these things that really ruin it for me. 1. Loads of people detrain at the first stop: This is worse on Cathcart I think with everyone getting off at Glasgow when you first open the doors at Glasgow, even on an evening peak service. I thought we have functionality to spawn empty and unload all after the last instruction - why isn't it being used if so? (Passengers were in the train in the siding here). 2. "There's a train here with its doors open. Meh, I'll just get the next one - even if it's hours away..." This is what irks me the most. I'd be fine with it if it were one or two people, but sometimes it's everyone and it means you're driving an empty train at the height of rush hour. 3. They seemingly all go one stop. I haven't done enough observation of it to be conclusive but it certainly seems that way. Also quite annoying if you get to a quiet station and there's 3 people get on but a horde gets off. We really need an overhaul of the passengers beyond separating them out and adding new clothes, but it seems DTG did what they did for RH, said 'job done' and forgot about it, sadly.
I agree, it's been a few months since I've started doing station stops more realistically, which meant I was looking at the passenger behaviour a lot more and I noticed the same faults you mentioned as well as some other. Passengers spazzing out on the gap between train and platform is a lot more common than I thought, it happens at least once every 1 or 2 services. In some routes some stations are either completely empty, or in other cases there are people that just do not interact with your train, just stand there. The passengers seem to use the actual train arrival time instead of the scheduled time, I would expect more passengers to be already on the station and on the platform ready to board if I'm late, on the contrary I still see people coming into the station, the moment I arrive, no matter if I'm 2 minutes early or 2 minutes late. Tied with what I've written above I see a huge wave of passengers coming into the station ~30-35 seconds after I arrived, I noticed this mainly on the SKA Expansion Pack S-Bahn, this means the passengers arrive when I'm departing/already gone. I'll do an SKA run later and see if I can share some clips/screenshots.
I think these could be solved also by simply having them spawn earlier. Bakerloo and Cathcart seems to do this aspect right - I don't know why, but on those routes in particular it seems the platforms are busier to me. Another problem on that front is it seems the game keeps spawning passengers to try and nail it on the 200/100/20 limit. I think it'd be better if it spawns earlier until that limit is reached, then don't spawn any more until a train has departed.
That's the most likely possibility... but why not tie the passenger to the scheduled time? Like real people would. Make passengers spawn at X station at Y time, so that results in passenger being already at the platform at the scheduled arrival time (and not actually when you get there). The fact that passenger behaviour doesn't change if you are late or early makes no sense at all to me. And IMO until they don't change this aspect passenger will never be good enough.
Just had a thought on this though, I personally aren't that bothered about it (of course it isn't ideal though). Perhaps though it's because I see similar in OMSI a lot. It seems to happen a lot more on the German routes where there's a height difference between the train and platform.
Speaking of OMSI, I do think its passengers behave more realistically (OK, not the animation) - to the point where they actually go to their seat (unless it's an AI bus and they ask for a ticket, but still), rather than getting on an teleporting. It spawns them in a huge clump, and only occasionally spawns another until a bus departs (in the editor you can tell it a range of the number of passengers it should spawn for each stop, default 0-10). Note how only a couple of people got off, not 90% of the people on board, and for stops that are only served by one or two routes, everyone gets on the bus, including people who spawn while you're sat there. Also note how there's two "lanes" of people getting on/off, depending on the bus type, rather than them all getting on/off directly in the middle of the doors. Now they do appear out of nowhere at the stop, rather than somewhere out of sight and walking to the stop. I know Matt hates OMSI because of its UI (which isn't exactly intuitive at first), but maybe the team can take a few ideas from it.
All the passengers getting off at the start of a service or the first stop is hilarious. I don’t know what goes on at Hassocks but everyone who gets on the train at Brighton wants to get off there and nobody from Brighton or any of the stops on the way want to go to London Victoria. I would guess it’s a combination of factors that affect the way the passengers behave. Bad system, bad programming of the system in the routes. I know on WSR, I’ll arrive at a station in the last train of the day and a large number of passengers will stream onto the platform and then stare at the train until it leaves without them. The same thing happens on all routes but it is very noticeable knowing there isn’t another train these people could get. Because of the way they act, I preferred the very limited numbers of passengers on PS4 before the limit was increased. The characters are often all the same too, albeit with different clothes. I spent a few minutes wandering around Redhill station and I counted 54 men on the station and all but one of them was bald. It was like a Right Said Fred lookalike convention.
I wholeheartedly agree. The new passenger diversity is nice, but that has never really been the elephant in the room to be honest. What you describe is much more problematic, and even though especially the population of stations should have been improved with this rework, it didn't, and neither did so many other aspects. Hordes of people piling onto a platform when the train arrives is unrealistic, even more so if they don't get on the one train that stops at this station once an hour
It doesn't bother me too much as well. Actually I find it quite funny. I wouldn't mind having passenger that are already on the platform before you arrive, even if it would be quite a bit jarring if you arrive a few minutes early. But how would it work if you are on foot? Passengers spawning directly on the platforms would be far from ideal in that case Talking about my experience with the SKA Expansion Pack, I did an S-12 run from Köln to Horrem and back to Köln. Arriving early at most stops the more likely scenario in terms of passengers is that they simply don't care about my train at all. And continue spawning after I leave. I have recorded the passengers at each stations. so I will be linking the clips below if it could be useful, this only going to Horrem, but the return journey was almost exactly the same. Just want to note that no passenger got in the train at Horrem (the origin station) for the journey back... Köln-Ehrenfeld Köln - Technologiepark Lövenich Köln - Weiden West Konigsdorf Horrem
Today everyone decided to get off at Aachen Rothe Erde. How can this many people even fit into the train?
I believe the rationale is you don't want passengers spawning on platform when the player can see it, and you don't want the effect we have now where there's empty platforms as you pull in, but really full ones as you pull out The balance may be to have a "platform load" which happens when the tile itself loads (so would be out of sight of the player) and then MORE people come in from the off view spawn point This should allow platforms to be "a certain amount filled" before you get here, with latecomers arriving up to a few seconds before you leave
As someone who actually had to use these trains on this route regulary, believe me they can. And this is the exact reason why I absolutely hate the damn Talent 2.
The passengers spawn out of sight, and currently they spawn when you are there anyway (as it's clearly showed in [CORRECTION]: this clip Do real people in the real world get to the platform in the time between the train actually arrives and starts to depart missing it? I agree with your solution. I'd have passengers that start spawning as soon as the tile is loaded (earlier than the current system), and stop spawning at the scheduled departing time.
I wonder if this issue will get sorted. When I'm on bkl for example, my train will be full but when I get to Lambeth north after leaving elephant and castle, all the passengers get off the train and there are passengers that are still walking down the stairs and ironically don't get on the train. What sense does it make when I arrive at Waterloo for instance at rush hour heading northbound and the platform is empty. Why do the passengers that are on the platform at a station don't get on my train despite me arriving and opening the doors? Why is it when I take a southbound bakerloo line service that has a full train at harrow, all of the passengers get off at south kenton which is ironically the least used station on the Bakerloo line? Makes no sense and I feel like this needs to be sorted because frankly this behavior is unrealistic. DTG took one step forward with the passenger system but unsurprisingly took two steps back.
In general i like the rh passenger improvements. The rather small bugs i dont even mind that much. The only thing i dont get and liked a lot more without rh, compared to before the passengers stay on the platforms after the last train. Its just atmospheric on a small station do a shift change at 23:00 and nobody is there anymore because there isnt another passenger train. With the rh passengers also in small stations the platform get filled with passengers over time and they wait from 23:00 until the next train goes at 5:00. Takes away the atmosphere a bit.
The people who are waiting on the platform could have at least waited till the passenger on the train deboards, before stepping on the train just like in real life, but instead a cluster of passengers on the platform which is really dangerous as well.
This also happen on the Bakeroo Line, especially in station, and when you go out of the station, a whole bunch of people not knowing where to go and moving back and forth lol .
I've seen plenty of people miss Metro trains (nearly done it a couple times myself) - even going as far as to try and open the doors after they've been closed. I've also seen a couple of people who stay on the platform and don't get on the train - but it's always a very select few people and it's not regular.
More common on, say, the New York subway, where the same platform services several routes and you may have to let a couple go by before your train arrives
Of course, I have also noted many of these issues. 1) All or most passengers detraining at first station stop, and practically no one gets on for the rest of the run. This especially on LBN, resulting in empty arrivals into Brighton or Victoria. 2) Passengers just standing in front of open doors, even when there is no other train coming. Happens throughout TSW2, but seems to be better on NEC-BP. 3) Passengers on ECS moves, most noteable for me on SEHS. 4) Some stations seem especially poor. On NEC-BP, no one ever gets on or off at Hyde Park, and the platforms are always empty. Or, the commuting patterns are nonsensical. For instance, no one should be waiting on the platform at Canton Center to take the evening train to Stoughton, and once you get there, there would realistically be very few people at Stoughton taking a late train to Boston. Instead, these platforms are always packed. This is just one example. So, what to do? I would like to see some acknowledgement of these more prevalent issues by DTG. Is this the passenger system working as intended, or is it bugs? In either case, will improvements be made, or is this just how the game will be? And, for LBN, why doesn't it have rush hour passengers in the first place? Do they break the route? Since it's on the roadmap, what kind of fix is in the works to prevent that? For me, it's not even about the "when" anymore. At this point I am just looking for a consensus on what the problems even are, and what it would take to fix them
Apparently it's that they're a bit apprehensive with the current performance issues - increasing the passengers would just make it worse. It's important to remember - London-Brighton DOES have RH passengers, the only thing it doesn't have is the volume of passengers. For people detraining after the next stop - I think a good way of going about it would be that each passenger that spawns has a destination they want to get to, and then (if spawning at a station) gets on the first train there - assign a new destination if there's no direct trains in the next, say, 30 minutes.
Forgot there's also this which I assume is a bug (it can't work out how to get to where it wants to go?) https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/found-this-at-gatwick-airport….52232/
With all respect to the other improvements RH passengers bring, to me at least the volume is the thing. When LBN came out I actually stopped playing it, because I wanted to really enjoy it with the passenger volume. I recently started playing it anyways because it has been months, and it's still pretty good. But, really, this is the one route that demands volume most of all. I also assume adding the volume would make the route more unstable, but why can't we just be told that? And what is the proposed fix? Your idea for internal passenger destinations is great. I would really like to hear from DTG if this is possible, and if not, what then can be done. Apparently most players, and especially most European players, focus on passenger services. So, it would make sense to get this very right.
Oh lord. I would not want to be a poor soul on that platform. Ironically that's how some station platforms be like in tsw2 with passengers getting off one stop after leaving the terminal station
This is how it is in Japan too especially rush hour, and sometime train guard have to push people to force them into the train and manually push the door to close.
You'll be very surprised how many people you can fit on a train. A 2-car Class 142 (car length 15m, much shorter than many other trains here) can seat anywhere between 100 and 120 people, depending on specification. However, I've seen pacers with closer to 200 people on them.
The time DTG introduce the pacers, "bus simulator 22" fans have a reason to change to tsw. Would like to see those trains at some point.
To those who say "commuter rail is much better than automobiles, because you don't have to deal with traffic jams...." Honestly, much as I dislike heavy traffic, I definitely prefer having my own volume of enclosed space where I can lean back in my leather seat and listen to whatever I like at whatever volume I like, to being crammed in cheek by jowl with masses of noisy and noisome humanity. And that's even before we get to the issue of transporting the day's shopping.....
Disembarking from Mexico City metro, have had to have my 4 year old son passed overhead from passenger to passenger to reach the doors!
Anyone else noticed that the majority of passengers are more or less exactly the same height there are no short or tall passengers all of them are adults, do people not take children on trains, do tall and shorter people not travel on trains. A bit more variety would add to the realism
Well DTG know that just that i think its a bit hard for them to fix that and that also DTG need to add child clothing to the game if they are gonna implement children and i think also that DTG need to fix the passengers a bit for that too work
There also needs to be rules in the software. You can't spawn a child without an adult because that would be strange.
Romney Hythe & Dymchurch railway in Kent operates as a school bus in term time. Lots of kids on the mini railway!
Well, their spawning is actually initiated by distance from the player camera being shorter than set in parameters like these: ts2.platform.MaxPlatformPassengerSpawnDistance and ts2.platform.MaxStationPassengerSpawnDistance I don't remember the default distances right now, but (at least on PC) you can increase these to some point without much tanking the performance. I believe the shorter distances between stations there are on a route the higher the performance hit would be.
Which will always limit how many passengers are on the platform when someone pulls in who is driving more efficiently than those parameters allow for It still makes more sense (to me) to spawn the passengers (or at least an alias that gets fleshed out by the setting you've noted) by the due time of the train rather than waiting for the train to come into range of the platform
Yep that was my guess as well... It's still a "stupid system" (not in the sense that who made it was lazy/stupid/whatever, I just mean that it seems like an overly-basic system). It would have made more sense to me to tie the passenger spawn to the scheduled arrival time. Even implementing a sort of bell curve so that (for example) most people would spawn at the scheduled arrival time -10 minutes, another percentage at arrival time -5 etc...
There are passenger curves that are set for routes which should do more or less something like this, but I don't think their granularity would allow spawning passengers for example only a minute before scheduled arrival until the arrival and not at different times.
Easily enough done. Where time != bellcurve, Where max pax > 100 : PAX = 2% maxpax where max pax < 100 AND > 25 : pax = 1% paxmax else pax = RAND (0-2) This would mean on a terminus like Victoria there would always be SOME passengers milling around, but on stations like Teynham you might see one person when a train's not due, but more likely not
Yep, AFAIK they just dictate the number of passengers that spawn depending on the time of day AFAIK, and of course they start spawning once you are within range, not at a scheduled time.
At present, the passenger system only has one basic animated mannikin, "adult human". This is why all the passengers are the same height and move the same way, even if the system randomly plays Mr. Potato Head with their heads, torsos, hair etc etc. There is no "child-size" mannikin, nor any "shuffling old person," or even "person holding umbrella"
I was hoping there would be more variety of passengers with the new passenger system. Many station scenes still look like something out of a Stephen King novel!
