Will Steam Have A Negative Impact On Future Dlc Creation?

Just to make this clear, I am absolutely not against the creation of Steam in TSW. I think it will be a great addition to the game. However, I will explain some of my thoughts/worries below.

With Spirit of Steam having been announced, its clear that most, if not all, the developers are working on and prioritising its creation.

As of the time posting this, on the current roadmap, there really isn't a lot to look forward to, if you aren't interested in Steam. Which is why I'd like to ask - has everything else been put on 'hold' until SOS is released?

Are there enough developers to support more than one project being worked on at any one time (in this case whilst SOS is being worked on?) Steam is, undoubtedly a complex beast, which is why I think it'll take more time than usual to develop a Steam based DLC vs a diesel/loco DLC. This begs the question, how will it affect other non-Steam DLCs being created?

I don't want to say Steam will 'take up' priority and development time, but without additional resources/more members of staff, how will DTG manage to 'even out' everything?

I'd like to know your thoughts and opinions below.

 

"The current roadmap" is light on forthcoming DLC, because it appears that DTG decide on what the coming year's (April-March) DLC is going to be in Jan-Feb, and so there really hasn't been anything new to announce. Harlem was the last of last year's tranche, with I suspect Liverpool-Crewe being something of a special project off on its own.

 

This is actually a really good topic for a number of reasons. Firstly, backdating every route to fit the steam era takes an immense amount of time and resources. Very rarely does TS1 even see a route dated before 1980. They can't use AI to build the route like LGV, Sherman, etc, as too much is different both industrially and scenery-wise. Now you're stuck with placing everything down manually like the old days. The DLC will become few and far between.

Then you have the complex issue with steam locomotives. There is so much moving on even the simplest steamers such as the 8F. Not counting the particle effects, physics, sounds, and overall looks. Imagine the sheer amount of development time with something like the Big Boy. That would take years at this rate.

I'm not experienced in any UE4 application by any means, but none of this looks like an easy task.

 

I don't think steam has stopped the work on everything else. Let's see what DTG has been doing lately:

• Creators Club (beta is live, but there is still work to do).
• Trying to find a solution for Xbox sound problems.
• Trying to find a solution for Playstation DLC size limit.
• Developing the base for all future steam content.
• Dynamic Billboards.
• New weather system (clouds, etc).

So, it looks to me they are working in quite a number of different upgrades. It is not all steam but I understand some people might not care about many of those updates, me included.

In my case, I don't think I will use Creators Club much (at least in its current state). I play on PC, so the console fixes do not bring anything to me personally. I know that console fixes need to be done and fast because those are huge problems for console players, and understand that there are many development hours going into this that will not translate into anything that I will notice in the game.

So, from my point of view, there are 3 potentially interesting things in development: steam (I'm excited about this), dynamic billboards (I have a wait and see attitude about this) and the new weather system (looks like a nice improvement, but not a game changer).

 

Seems like there is not much in the way of rolling stock or routes being worked on asides steam and Harlem (who knows when either will arrive). The roadmaps have been rather uninspiring as of late. I guess I am just being a tad bit impatient in hoping for another UK route (not steam). I hope the Harlem line turns out to be fun though.

 

I would like to think any subsequent steam locomotives would take less time to develop now that DTG have built the tech for it. The route building itself shouldn't take much longer compared to other historic routes, especially with having experience from building similar before. Having steam taking a priority in development is surely a good thing, simply to get it out the door and offer something fresh to the sim sooner.

 

I don't think that " steam " is slowing down the development of new routes. After all, we can look forward to:

HSC
Harlem
Lucerne
3 steam routes
Later this year.

What bothers me is the paucity of loco building from DTG since TSW2 was launched. As someone said recently, there are many, many existing routes which are crying out for additional locos and rolling stock. Plus we're seeing only a single new locomotive with each new route these days.
Even if we had a decent Consist Editor/Scenario Planner, we don't have the stock to make it interesting.

 

Well, after year of diesel and electric trains delaying the advent of Steam, it would only be fair if now other DLCs took a back seat, but that will not happen.

 

I think you misinterpret the causality here. Who comfirmed that diesel and electric are the cause of a delay? Steam has been in development the whole time and Matt said, that it's just a hell of a work, because it's a new system for the Simugraph. It's a bit like i would start to try and learn how to build a car engine without any experience in that.These things take time as they should. Because i don't think anyone want DTG to screw up steam.

 

Personally i think Steam has to be another Sand Patch. That's one route they categorically cannot underwhelm on. I dare say it's been developed far longer than the normal year or close to it takes

 

I am looking forward to seeing where they go with Steam and that it won’t be a one hit wonder. Assuming it’s successful no reason why that can’t be used to bring more route and train builders on board and provide content to keep every epoch of customer happy.

 

You can things turn the other way around. There never really was much to look forward to, if you aren't interested in seeing the same old stuff. DTG has been recycling quite some content, and I know I'm not the only one getting a tad tired of the modern German plastic stuff and the amount of Electrostars we've seen lately. Seeing steam is awesome. Can't wait to see the other steam routes appear on the roadmap.

As far as I understood, most of the development time goes into core features that support steam power. These are different teams than those who create content. Although I can imagine they might need to get used to the new tools, once they know how to create a steam engine, it should be easier to create another. There seems to be going an awesome amount of development time in creating historic routes, but that's not something specific for steam. The BR blue-era diesel routes we've seen would run into such problems again.

In the end, I guess non-Steam DLC is slightly being paused because of the Spirit of Steam theme, just like any non-high speed stuff was on-hold during the time period where DTG focussed primarely on high speed. If you're a fan of high speed, that was a good time for you, but if you weren't (like me), that's tough luck. This time the cards are the other way around. Sometimes you're gonna be lucky and see routes developed you like, sometimes you're gonna be less lucky and see routes developed that other people like. I guess once Spirit of Steam is over and we have a steam route developed for each of the three countres, we'll either see more balance in things that gets released, or DTG finding a new theme to focus on.

 

Agreed, my wallet has gone from preorder to closed as of late

 

Or wait for a sale, even then there's nothing really left to purchase that I desperately want. None of the forthcoming releases apart from SOS hold much interest. Harlem will be another dreary US commuter route with 50% of your time spent in boring cab cars. A short obscure Swiss route built by Rivet doesn't inspire much either. I actually hope SOS is closer than we think otherwise DTG could see their sales stall a bit in the coming weeks.

 

Couldn’t have worded my sentiments any better.

 

I quite like steam trains in real life, but hold no interest for it to be on TSW. Just to point out, I've nothing against having a steam route as many will enjoy it, but at what expense does this effect further DLC? What concerned me from the last roadmap was the fact that steam is stated to still be "a while away".

I really wish the roadmap would still list what we could expect in the mid-to-long-term for upcoming DLC. A big part of enjoying the game for me is what to look forward to. Quite frankly at the moment, there's not much to go on for now. There really needs to be more route and loco DLC announcements away from steam to keep me interested.

I'm not entirely convinced, especially for those not interested in such routes. If there's any delays, I hope this wouldn't effect further route development elsewhere. While I agree steam does offer a freshness, a fine balance needs to be struck for freshness with existing routes (loco DLC) and also with new non-steam-based routes.

 

The initial steam route will always take longer to develop as there are few modern assets that can be used.
Period cars, trucks, passengers, bridges and buildings all have to be created from scratch.
Subsequent routes should be speedier.

 

Well, kinda sorta.

AIUI, DTG make an annual selection, in January-February, of the routes they are going to develop over the coming business year (1 April - 31 March). The last of the tranche selected a year ago is Harlem Line, with SoS/Liverpool-Crewe possibly being a special thing on its own; hard to tell.
At any rate, according to what Matt has said on streams, there used to be just one route-development team, which did one route and then moved on to the next. That has changed only recently, again acc. to Matt, they brought more people onboard over the last several months, and are now able to have two route-development teams working in parallel: the first instance of this was the simultaneous development of Sherman Hill and Dresden-Chemnitz. We are seeing it again with the ongoing work on both Harlem and Liverpool.

Anyway, the reason there isn't much interest in the "what's coming down the pike" part of the Roadmap right now, is because they've reached the bottom of last year's barrel, and haven't yet opened this year's. I expect we will hear something perhaps as early as the next Roadmap, or at least after the release of Harlem.

 

Us steam enthusiasts have been waiting since 2017 and I can't think when the last UK steam route came out for TS1. As said previously the first steam route will always take longer to build as it will need many new assets.

I am sure in a year to eighteen months time we will have had a handful of modern British routes, still the one steam route and very likely no new British Rail period routes so I wouldn't feel too hard done by!

 

Would be nice to have a save game fix too before steam comes out... I guess there will be some very long services/scenarios.

 

And lots of ways to screw up!

 

Looking forward to the steam locomotives and if they wanted German steam locomotives then 1970s East and West Germany you would see this result Steam locomotives working alongside Diesel engines East Germany DR BR132 M62 DR BR120 DR BR119 U boat made in Romania home depot Dresden Friedrichstadt. Unlike West Germany steam phase out 1974 East Germany went steam all the way to the reunification in 1990 even though official retirement was 1988.
Best German steam route is the entire Tharandter Rampe Dresden Karl Marx Stadt (Chemnitz) Werdau route or Bebra Gerstungen Erfurt line. Gerstungen is where the East German steam locomotive must be detached in order to attach a West German DB BR218 for Frankfurt Am Main. the other method is East German Steam locomotive 52.80 18 201 staying to Bebra where a DB BR103 110 1979-2020 DB BR120 runs Bebra Frankfurt Am Main
In West Germany Steam locomotives with DB BR218s 363 DB BR103 110 151 World War 2 era 144 194 193 before 1974 Phase out of Steam

 

For years there has been a very negative impact from Diesel en Electric routes upon the development of steam routes. So not much reason to complain for the next two years if DTG will develop only steam routes. Same holds for Dutch, Austrian, Australian and so on routes.
Besides that, I do not think there is a reason to worry. DTG as a company is growing so they can develop more content and to be honest, they offer more hours of fun that you have in a year and there is so much gameplay they cannot test it all. So what is the issue?

Also they may combine steam and diesel or steam and electric in a single route. I do not share the worries and I am looking forward to a lot of steam.

 

Hopefully to compensate we'll get another shorter modern UK route announced soon like Cathcart Circle or East Coastway, something that shouldn't take as long to develop but will allow those not interested in steam to have something to look forward to.

 

I don't think this will have an impact on future dlc's unless there are so many delays. It's good that a steam route is being made for those that like it. I personally am not interested in steam. Steam trains are outdated pieces of technology and to be honest belong in a museum, a line for a railtour service, or a scrapyard. But the notion that steam would have an impact is like saying that a diesel american passenger route for example would have an impact on future dlc's. DTG won't make everything we would like and if that's the case, we aren't obligated to buy it. There are also other games that can be played as well until a new dlc comes out. Also since the team is getting bigger, I'm sure we will get future route dlc's after spirt of steam by the end of the year at the latest

 

I think gameplay or route ambience needs a significant review. I find myself buying a route on hype and then within a week or two I don’t pick them up much. Love the game and I’m nearly 1300hrs in but not sure what’s missing (work screensaver). The pie needs some seasoning.

 

Personally I would be happy for only steam DLC for the next year. Havnt we had plent of other stuff up to now

I dont think the development will slow down much, obviously most of the work is going into developing a new system, which probably happens regularly anyway. Secondly, routes are mostly not going to need any additional work. I hope we see plentifull of steam content going forward.

 

I'd like to know just how big the call was for steam in the first place? I'm not against steam at all, in fact I am a big fan of it but mainly the older stuff and in real life, I have no urge to drive steam in game. If there is a large call for it, great good for you.

It must impact on other DLC's but there is not much you can do about that, how much it does impact we will probably never know but like Crosstie says, where are the Loco's to flush out routes. I'm sure people would prefer a more flushed out route with an extra Loco than an empty route, I would.

Rather than rush out routes and steam would it not be easier just to release Loco's and so concentrate on steam.

 

Oh no, I didn't mean to come across as such. As I mentioned earlier, I'm happy to see different styles of routes so that everyone is happy. You're most likely correct, I just miss the older roadmap style of what other things to expect, though I guess patience is the only option.

Agreed, will be interesting to see what comes about alongside, if at all.

 

If there's one single release for TSW that DTG should be going all out with, it's definitely Spirit of Steam. This is a big addition to the game and something it has been missing since the beginning. As Matt has said previously, they've put a lot of focus into it so that they can get the experience right, making sure to give these legendary locomotives and the players the respect they deserve. Spirit of Steam is an event.

I fully expect the first route to be steam only. It wouldn't be right for the premier steam route to have diesels in it but it does open opportunity to have future releases set in that Steam/Diesel crossover period and better yet, diesels that are in BR Green rather than Blue.

Right now, I'd say a temporary sole focus on steam would be most welcome. Get a selection of routes, locomotives and other bits of stock out there and then mix steam into the usual release schedule. There should be as many steam DLC released in a year as there are diesel/modern if we're looking to "even out" things though.

 

It seems to me that DTG's TSW steam-power development could begin at the current state of steam railroading throughout the world: rail fanning. There's a precedent for this in the existence of quite a number of rail tour activities on a variety of routes and an entire route, West Somerset, almost exclusively dedicated to rail-fanning activities. Unless I'm mistaken, DTG has already selected a British steam engine as its first DLC in this category, so simply assign it as an added layer in this route. This almost certainly isn't what steam enthusiasts are waiting for, but it would be a way of getting the show on the road, so to speak.

 

When it comes to future steam content I think DTG might be planning on having third parties doing most of the work in the future. We've already got Bossman helping on Crewe - Liverpool, wouldn't be a stretch to think that they could do loco addons for it, or maybe even their own routes in the future.

 

Matt, relaying the views of CEO Paul Jackson, has said that they want the complete Glory Days of Steam environment and feel, not railtours or heritage railways.

 

You could say the same about German DLC impacting the number of US & UK route DLCs, or slow freight train DLCs impacting the number of commuter and high speed express DLC's.

DTG have so far managed to balance out that theres a constant stream of variety to cater for virtually all of its customer base and their varied interests and preferences, and I dont think the addition of steam into the mix will alter that in the medium to long term.

 

The problem is, the stream has dropped to a trickle so far as UK routes or even additional train packs for existing routes are concerned. It looks as if all the effort is being focused on 35 miles from Crewe to Liverpool and not much else.

 

And for the first year of TSW2 there was a distinct lack of new American routes while the high speed craze was in effect. Fact is some things have to give way for a little while in order for other content to be made, and there isn't much that can be done about that without a development team the size of Jupiter.

 

Well, if I understood things correctly. DTG has recently started (or will soon start) having dedicated teams for each country. So that'd mean that the UK team is indeed focussing on Crewe-Liverpool exclusively, while the US team is probably finishing off the Harlem Line, and we have no clue what the DE team is doing (because the not-so-useful roadmap lacks that information...)

So yeah, if you're interested in modern UK content exclusively, you're in bad luck at this point. The next UK route will probably not start being developed after Crewe-Liverpool is done, and it may not be a modern route.

 

Don’t misunderstand me, I’ve had a gutful of the modern UK stuff with the largely identical plastic Electrostars, less inviting to drive than my Kia Sportage (which thrashes nicely, particularly when I treat it to some nice E5 fuel). In fact I rather hope the next UK route after Scouse Steam will be a transition BR era, early to mid 60’s when steam and diesel were running together. That would be rather magnificent.

 

Are you sure? There isn't much else on the Roadmap

 

That’s good to hear. However, it still doesn’t explain as to why subsequent items still haven’t been added to the roadmap?

Even a subtle hint of what’s to come would suffice.

 

I’ve done 170 or so timetable services on London Commuter. Still loads to do. I’ve hardly even noticed the lack of UK content because of this route. Even with mainly Electrostars to drive it hasn’t lost any appeal yet. I’ve actually become quite fond of these ‘modern plastic’ trains now. I suppose for those players who only play UK stuff the wait will appear longer, especially if they only like the modern setting.

 

It’s all secret squirrel……