The inclusion of only one locomotive/multiple unit in the forthcoming Luzern-Sursee route again raises the question of how prototypical is the motive power new routes are in TSW2. I have moaned on here a number of times about ‘West Cornwall Local’ and the absence of the HST, iconic and essential motive power for this route in the period it is set (early 1990s). Rivet/DTG provided a class 37 (suitably modified from the original class 37 in TVL) but not the china clay traffic on which the locos were mainly used, nor for that matter the lines on which they worked. Other locomotives were later added as layers but these were virtually all unprototypical for the chosen period. Of course, some people were more than satisfied with the motive power provided with WCL but they were either not too concerned about the accuracy of it or unaware of what was right or wrong. (The accuracy of the route or the physics of the class 156 are beyond the scope of my concerns.) The question of whether the motive power is right or wrong is the crux of what I think is the issue. If we know something is wrong, we are likely to be passionate about wanting the developers to get it right. If we don’t know, we can be in blissful ignorance and just enjoy the route for what it is. In some ways, that’s the problem with this forum. My knowledge of German railways was quite limited and I was looking forward to the Hamburg-Lübeck route until it was rightly pointed out on here that the Dostros were wrong. Otherwise, I would have happily run the route in my unenlightened state! Does it matter? And even though it does, should it affect my enjoyment of the route? Probably not but to come back to my original example, I haven’t bought WCL because I cannot run a route set in that area without an HST. However, I will probably buy Luzern-Sursee because I’m really excited about a standard gauge Swiss route and will just accept that other traffic is likely to be missing. I hope some of this makes sense and I would be interested to know how others feel about it.
My hard expectation on tsw as priority is to play it as a sim while also enjoying collectables etc. When we talk about motive power of tsg i know what i get. Will see how rivet is gonna implement the flirt. If its placed only on basic features again, ill start to get tired of it. Dont get me wrong this doesnt mean i want talk rivet bad, a casual gamer might care about driving only and hes ok, if only driving relevant features are implemented. But extra functions of a train is higher in my priority list than working ice cream tables. And from this point the cl.150 was a desaster. Not gonna repeat what i mean. About the route im a bit more forgiveable. I dont mind if pis arent recreated 100%, but stations and typical landmarks has to make the route recognize as such.
As an addition if it helps to add details and features to a train, i would even buy a higher initial price for the flirt and the route ,or buy a train separate from a route.
I don't think it's realistic to expect a route to come with more than one all-new loco, and still sell for 25 quid. DTG did that at the very beginning (Sand Patch, WSR and GWE), but not since.
Thats the case yes, spirit of steam will be an exception because tsw2 gets a premiere with it, but im sure after that routes will come with max. 1 new loco. To be honest, im ok with that since a loco dlc would be 20 Euro there is not much left for a route, and we all expect quality, dont we.
Id be happy with 1 loco included as long as there was a loco DLC released alongside it, and perhaps offer a small discount if you purchased both together as a bundle. What I dont want is a mix of eras or an unprototypical loco included just to make a route busy.
As long as the train types most associated with the route are included or provided as an expansion then it's generally fine. Where it's not depends largely on how big the gaps in the timetable are and for what portion of the route it is seen. I can tolerate there not being any AI traffic at Glasgow Central but having period inaccurate intercity consists spawn on WCL in place of a HST does spoil it somewhat.
Absolutely agree on both counts. If Rivet/DTG had announced a Valenta powered HST as a future DLC, I would have probably bought WCL when it was launched.
Yes, if additional DLC or substitute layers are provided, DTG need to make them accurate for the period and the route.
Agreed, my bug bear with loco dlc is it always arrives to the table when the meal is cold. Route £25 Route with extra fries £32?
I get why they have to cut back. The world has forever changed after the pandemic. Particularly, in the IT field. The dev costs are now more than it was before. I think DTG is between a rock and hard place because they either have to increase the price of the route or cut back on dev time. It looks like they are choosing the latter because its convenient than angering their user base. But as redrev1917 mentioned, I would love to see a loco DLC drop a short time after the route to bring some completion to the route. It is going to piss some people, but its either that or the routes cost more money. Someone has to pay for it either way.
Ah, the good old days... GWE came with three new trains... most other routes with two and a possible loco dlc further down the line.
I still think it's not unreasonable to include two traction types with a new route, it adds variety and interest. Imagine how boring some of the German routes would be if all they came with was the Electric Karts and no loco hauled. At some point particularly with classic era UK routes, there will be a catalogue of existing motive power which could be brought across at minimal extra development cost. To some extent this already happened with TVL where we got the 37 and then the MetCam Class 101 which already existed in NTP. West Cornwall is probably not the best example as we know the whole thing ended up being a massive fudge with Rivet dropping the ball on the Class 150 they did include, let alone being trusted to morph the existing HST's into a 90's Valenta version. Perhaps I'm being a greedy little piggy but £25 is not an insubstantial sum for a DLC, not far short of what many complete games sell for and I want my money's worth.
To be fair, Rivet should have set the route in an era where potential layers would be more appropriate. DTG only added the NTP layers as a last minute extra to bolster a lacklustre timetable. Regardless of the number of included locos, routes are more enjoyable when there's more variety in traction through layers.
Yes, I agree; but I think from an economic perspective a route can only include one new loco/MU. Additional gameplay can come from re-including existing traction, as happed with NTP (the 45 is the only new loco; the 101 and (reworked) 47 came from WSR). Riesa-Dresden included no new traction at all, but a shed-load of re-issues. Boston came with one new loco (ACS-42), plus one rework (F40PH-C3)
This is obviously the " new normal " for routes. HSC will come with one new loco ( ES44AC ) and a reissue ( GP38-2 ) and Harlem with an M7A and M3A, neither of which are startlingly new. I just hope that there will be additional post- release locos for these routes and existing ones which I'm quite willing to pay for.
The sad fact is that we are not getting that many loco DLC:s anymore, at least not from DTG. Hopefully it will change, we have a lot of routes crying for some more locos.
You mean ACS-64 which was updated and Reworked from TSW 2020 NEC Newark airport New York Penn Station New Rochelle route ACS-64 version and Reworked F40PH-3C MBTA from Caltrain F40PH.
I wonder what’s going on there. When asked, Matt has assured us that DTG haven’t moved away from loco DLCs, but the last DTG loco DLC released was the 313 last October and no DTG loco DLC was ever added to the roadmap after the release of TSW2 if I recall correctly.
The problem of loco DLCs is that don't sell enough, and DTG isn't helping by making them almost worthless. The Class 52, BR 363 and BR 182 have all been recycled and given away in some other form in other DLCs, devalueing the original loco DLC.
Um, no. The NEC New York trains were completely incompatible with and unusable in TSW2; the ACS-64 for Boston was rebuilt from the ground up (if it has components from anything, it would be the BR182).
It’s a really interesting OP. For what it’s worth, I enjoy West Cornwall by imagining it in an earlier era than the one intended. I drive 45s, 47s and 52s, and 101s on the locals. In my mind it’s late 70s or early 80s. I’ve never driven the 150, and when an AI 150 passes I close my eyes and pretend I didn’t see it! If someone could produce a patch to back-date the route visually (in the same way as has been done with Paddington-Reading) that would be superb.
Amen to that, rather than including a different livery in another route as standard, they should be increasing the value of the original loco DLC by offering the new livery as part of the pack. They'd sell far more copies. Sometimes I have to question the logic of DTG in their choosen routes and creating additional opportunities for add on sales. For example the Harlem Line, theres an extremely limited opportunity for additional sales being generated by a loco DLC pack on this route. Whereas if they had done the Hudson line from NY Central to Croton-on-Hudson including the spur to Penn station (a further ~15 miles and 3 additional stations, excluding Penn Station which is already built). They could still have released with just the M3A and M7A as standard BUT then they could have released a P32AC as a loco DLC in Amtrak livery and suitable rolling stock (they'd only need to build the sleeper cars for the Lakeshore Ltd and a baggage car(?). This DLC could have seen extra 20+ services being added to the route and the ability to drive Amtrak services between Penn & Croton with intermediate stops at Yonkers. A 2nd Loco DLC could even be justified offering the new Metro North dual mode version of the Charger (if the real life loco is still being ordered?) and some passenger cars - although these would all need to be made specific for this pack and possibly rule this out..
I want DTG to hire you as a consultant for routes. I think this is very good strategy and direction for the product.
Yep! Completely agree, I think the most fitting example is the SEHS/465 combo, which complement themselves very well. I don't mind if there are some routes that have don't have as many trains... but I'd definitely like more loco DLCs, and I also like the idea of possibly selling bundles with new route + new train DLC, maybe for €35/40 (instead of 30 + 13). Also I don't understand how DTG doesn't value more different trains more compared to different variants. If building a 387 takes about the same resources as a 700, why on earth do you pick the 387? Same goes for the Talent 2.
Its not hard to have a bit of forward planning and research IMO, Im not even from the US and have only visited NYC twice in my life. Still I fail to see the logic in releasing a route which has little to no scope for additional payware content.
I'd like to see the same happen on Sandpatch Grade, too. A second, backdated timetable set in the mid to late 1990's. Power would be GP38-2's, GP40's, SD40s (Crr), SD40-2, and the C40-8W. All would be depicted in the YN2 and Stealth paint schemes. Also there would be more trains running the whole route because the 90's were typically busier than the modern day "PSR" era. Which has the fewest amount of trains running as possible. Because how SPG is now is silly and it's immersion breaking, with a mix of YN3b, YN2, CRR and Stealth paint schemes..
Thank you for telling me about this and I can see BR 182 spawing derivatives from it's body shell 1116 1016 and the 4 pantograph version 1216. 1216 does run Nahverkehr Dresden as a Wien Kledering Stralsund TS22 Inselbahn freight via Dresden.
Honestly I wouldn't mind routes releasing with so few rolling stock it we would actually get locomotive DLCs for them in the future. But as said before, DTG seems to have stopped producing them for some reason. People say they don't sell that well, but that's not suprising, given the ones they made are boring and unoriginal. I mean GP40-2 for Sand Patch Grade or the C40-8W? They look almost identical to the original SPG locos, so for most people it will not be interesting. Things like the M3, the Baby Bullet or those german shunters and the DB BR101 sold pretty well thouh, I would suppose, as they are all good and unique.
And I would rather go for the GP40 rather than the GP38 on any route (and I do enjoy the Dash 8 also, broken or not). And just saying boring and unoriginal, now that's just unrealistic as each of them is unique in its own way (design wise). At this point, I would have them make more different locos that aren't in TSW yet (be part of a route or an add-on), rather than rebuilding or repainting the same olds just to save time (and money when developing them). Variety is crucial when you want something different on a route from the same old locos you've driven before, depending on location. Not only say this for the lack of US loco add-ons lately (for over a year now), but as a different driving experience that can make the route be better than before, doesn't matter if it uses the same services too.
When I bought RH with only reused trains I was hoping for some DLC:s, at least one for every route included. But now we are not getting Acela nor Thameslink, ICE-T... The reality is just sad. Don't know if I will still buy all the coming routes when I know that there will never ever be any DLC locos coming.
Well, the track record on new add-on locos in the last 12 to 18 months isn't exactly sterling. I'm struggling to think of more than 1 or 2 outside Germany. I mean if we can't even get an Acela or a 700 series, the outlook is pretty bleak.
Are you thinking of Rush Hour train pack 700 Acela & DB BR411/415. For me Rush Hour train pack 2022 version comprised of HSP-46 Avelia Liberty NEC Boston-Providence BML Class 70 Diesel electric (TS 22 WCML) Class 700 Riesa-Dresden 146.0 & ICE-T. Class 70 on BML Taken from Geoff Marshall Channel Class 700 Geoff Marshall 2015
