Train Sim World 2 - First Look Metro Norths Harlem Line

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  2. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, it's their choice. Secondly, they didn't sell particularly well on TS.

    There are thousands of routes out there. So soon after Harlem, I doubt Hudson is close on the radar.

    Not really. It's about scope. Route's don't have to be long to be good. Frankly I'd rather a 30 mile route with branches to an A-B 70 mile route, unless the latter had attractive rolling stock or great scenery.

    But DTG's business model for TSW is based on the length of routes in terms of development time, and also in terms of the cost of making it. Route Miles + Stations + Scenery + Rolling Stock + The rest = Development Costs. After a certain point it becomes too expensive. I'd imagine the density of Harlem Line adds to that. Also, most people don't want to drive for two hours on a boring mainline (unrelated to Harlem, but it applies in many situations)

    All of DTG's routes since Dresden - Riesa (with the exception of BML, which has large amounts of issues) have been of a high quality. We're at that turning point.

    Extensions aren't a requirement for the game to succeed. The formula we have now works. The best way to create longer routes is two have two seperate DLCs and connect them together (merging), rather than create the "Routes as DLC for DLC" problem. Most routes are a good length as they are (DCZ, BML, GCC, HBL, SMH, CCB, etc)
     
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  3. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how the night scene going to be like? because so far the night scene on any route its not even close to how the real world look like, hopefully this route would be the first. Oh and hopefully i can see at night driving
     
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  4. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Look at the beautiful gorgeous scenery at night on the Connecticut Line, despite not being Harlem Line, hopefully the team can produce this scenery.
     
  5. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    You can see the update PIS On station at time stamp:
    8:10 at Harlem 125th street
    8:59 at Harlem 125th street, At this timestamp, you can see the different color-coded line on the update PIS
    12:09 at Harlem 125th street, At this timestamp, you can see the idle screen with the blue and white font and bankground, that show the current time and Metro North Railroad logo.
    12:45 at this timestamp you can see what line is currently on the track with the color coded line on the PIS screen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well North White Plains isn't a terminal station really. It's a turnaround point to get trains back southbound into the city especially during rush hour. Southeast is the proper terminal station for the electric trains. While yes the express services are 15-20 min longer and has 15 stops (same as local services) the concept of the Harlem line is that local services terminate at North White Plains to turn them around quickly especially since there is alot of foot traffic south of White Plains and in the city whilst the Express trains run local once they reach white plains hence the understandable criticism.

    The 6 train for example on the NYC subway goes from Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall in Manhattan to Pelham Bay Park in The Bronx but you have trains that terminate at Parkchester station in the Bronx and get shunted to the middle track before coming back into Parkchester and going back south into Manhattan. Makes sense especially during rush hour. Trains that run to/from parkchester always run local whilst trains during PM rush hour that go from Brooklyn Bridge to Pelham Bay Park run as 6 Express Trains from 138th Street to Parkchester before running local to Pelham Bay Park kinda like what the Harlem line services to/from southeast do. AM Rush Hour is the same but in opposite direction. Once 6 Express trains get to parkchester, they run express to 138th street before running into Manhattan. Parkchester just like North White Plains isn't a terminal station but a turnaround point for trains to head quickly back into Manhattan

    When DTG says extensions didn't sell well, I'm curious what extensions were made for TS and why they didn't sell? With a public editor you could even get extensions for free fron third party devs. I know the hudson line extension for Train Simulator was free via the steam workshop for example and it was nicely done in my opinion.

    It's easy to say that extensions didn't sell well in ts. But ts doesn't have a timetable mode (only scenarios and a quick drive) and you can get certain extensions for routes for free I believe because of a public editor. How many extensions did dtg even make for TS anyways?

    I'm not trying to justify dtg make extensions for tsw2. I am just curious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2022
  7. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  8. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Which route that we currently have can produce this gorgeous beautiful sky view, where the sun is shining and the cloud look so amazing and spectacular. I don't think we have any at all, which i really do hope that this route would be the first.
     
  9. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Sure hope so. I think they would since they already did so many modelling changes but who knows honestly.
     
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  10. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Another amazing gorgeous scene where the sun is setting and night is beginning, which still the game can't produce currently at
    timestamp: 10:36
     
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  11. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Just to weigh in on this “route length” back and forth, I don’t think time or length matters to be honest, it’s the experience.

    What I’ve seen pretty much everyone in this thread do however, is disregard others’ wants from TSW.

    Some people get enjoyment from running a train for 100+ miles, others get enjoyment from doing 20 miles, some like to run services for over 60 minutes, and others like to run for half that. There are people that like a mix, and people that like other stuff.

    Personally I think it’s all about the experience of the route, and does it offer a satisfactory level of realism when it comes to driver services.

    HRR for me is probably the worst offender for ‘too short’, not because of the length of the route, or services, but because you start at a seemingly random station and finish at another, it just doesn’t make sense to me.

    RRO is quite similar to HRR in terms of service length & mileage however I feel asif I have more purpose here, at least by finishing in either Hagen or Wuppertal (granted the latter not being a necessarily major station), it’s logical to think that you could end a shift here to swap drivers.

    The Harlem line does have a logical sense to it, you start at its terminus and run out to one of the lines major stations, so I don’t think the length is an issue on this one.

    LIRR was much longer than the upcoming Metro North line, however that length is pointless since the route is practically dead, so if DTG need to shorten their route lengths to put more time into making these lines feel like their IRL counterparts, then so be it.

    More length would be great in TSW, yes, but it certainly isn’t the entire experience of a DLC, and can even be detrimental to it.
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    LIRR is longer than this route, but in lirr you get the full Hempstead Branch and a half baked Ronkonkoma branch with the service that ends in Hicksville. Drivers in reality would continue to Ronkonkoma. Just like how drivers who would do services to southeast would do the full run and not give up their train at North White Plains. Not realistic at all. But at least there's the local services and the services to Crestwood so at least players will be able to do back and forth services even if it isn't the full electrified part of the line
     
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  13. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Do you think we will see more screenshots tomorrow before Tuesday Road Map Update? Also what do they mean by "advance screenshots" from their post on the official website "we’ll be providing further information and advance screenshots of the upcoming Train Sim World 2 Harlem Line: Grand Central Terminal – North White Plains route!" What is going to be advanced about it?
     
  14. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I just realize that they are going to add a small portion station of the Hudson line in this route, Does that mean that the next metro north line is going to be the Hudson Line because this is what it said in the article "As re-created for Train Sim World 2, the route will also include a short section of the MNCR Hudson Line extending from Mott Haven to Yankees – 153rd Street Station." Cause if this is the case I really can't wait till they start the project on the Hudson Line.
     
  15. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    is this what it mean
     
  16. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So while I have no knowledge or interest in the route, part of me is curious if DTG will model the Metro-North Highbridge Yard, which is located just past the Yankees – 153rd Street Station. Though most photos I see of the yard show stock that isn't coming with the route (IE P32's, M8's and M2/M4/M6's)
    Hibridge_Yard_from_HB_jeh.jpg
    Highbridge Yard.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  17. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Here is another video showing the updated PIS at Melrose
     
  18. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Here Yankee Stadium
     
  19. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    They might model the train and put it there for the time being until we get the real one, so it most likely will be in route as a static train that doesn't run.
     
  20. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully we will be able to enter and interact in the yard as well. :D
     
  21. Hiro Protagonist

    Hiro Protagonist Well-Known Member

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    If you look from the offramp just to the south on Street View you can clearly see M7As, although that's no guarantee as they run on the Hudson line too
     
  22. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I mean the yard is very close to yankees-east 153rd street station so I would assume it would be modelled. Probably won't be of high quality if we won't be able to use it on the route
     
  24. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely well explained and that's also affecting NEC Newark, NJ to New Haven, CT Metro-North New Haven line section electric locals to Stamford Connecticut Express trains to New Haven local North of Stamford. Harlem Line Express M7A M3A DLC M9A to Southeast Brewster local stops north of White Plains but express south of there.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Crestwood is also not a terminal station but a turnaround point to get trains back south into the city during rush hour. Makes total sense if you think about. That's why harlem line express services are slightly longer than local services because North White Plains, Crestwood and Hartsdale are just turnaround points hence why the criticism came in the first place. There not the end of the line for the M7As and M3As. The express trains run local services north of white plains
     
  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That is a platform matter; while console and especially Playstation owners are having many issues with BML, it runs great for me even on my potato PC, and it's possibly my favorite route. It's brilliant, really. So I would say that their routes have been very good since Boston (which does have multiple issues which have nothing to do with platform optimization)
     
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  27. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Boston is still horrible, and really need more work on, especially the ATC.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Boston is one of two routes I do not play; the other is LIRR, for the same reason.
     
  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    There are many perspectives of seeing this, and im fine with. In the end everybody buying a dlc has his own expectations to it.

    For me a hard no buy, even if i like the route.
     
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  30. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    "Extensions havent been sold well in ts" is a really old hat.
    The gameplay of tsw has improved a lot with the 24h timetable, the fact you can explore as passenger or just mess around in the area outside the train or testing trains in the depot.

    In ts you were stuck in the cab and you had your few 10 scenarios to play on top.

    Tsw and ts cant be compared, there was never a trial with tsw for extending a route, so neither dtg nor somebody else has really a clue about its business potential.
    I read at least 2-3 suggestions every week about route extensions in this forum.

    People dont buy the new samsung mobile because they need all the 950000 features.
     
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  31. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    What's the side mounted roof vent blower unit thing on the M7A for?
     
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  32. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    To let out the air, that is also where the ac are blowing out
     
  33. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Ok,so on the M7 i guess it just blows straight up thru the flat mounted roof vent.Unlike on the M7A.
     
  34. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    you mean the Yellow version M7 LIRR Hicksville to NY Penn from Ronkonkoma/Huntington or Hempstead NY Penn/Atlantic
     
  35. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    No, the Hudson line would appear on the roadmap if they're making it. It literally says "from Mott Haven to Yankees - 153rd Street Station" - that's the only part of the Hudson line featured, and I've heard it's mostly there because you can see it anyway.
    Advanced probably means either: Closer to release, or In more details/showing off more.
     
  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Also to clear tree branches and leaves from getting into the vents
     
  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I still wonder how many extensions for ts were made anyways considering that their was a public editor meaning you could've gotten some extensions for free like the Hudson line extension.

    You do have a point though. TS is just scenarios really.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  38. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    I think here, while the route is short. The compromise is the details.
    DTG can truly make this a great route like Peninsula Corridor was (something I think our American routes deserve).
    The route is only around 23-24 miles long, it's short we get it!!!. I am not complaining about the length here. I personally don't care for longer routes or short ones. But what matters here is the amount of details DTG decides to add is what will be the game changer.

    I love Metro North, the scenery is beautiful from suburban Westchester county to the busy and bustling urban metropolis of New York CIty in the Bronx and Manhattan. I grew up in this great metropolis, I think DTG has the capacity of making this truly stunning. I have rode these trains many times over, so clearly I know the route(s).

    The key to this specific route is details. It's not a long route, but the details can overshadow that. When I say details I mean actually adding in amazing accurate and stunning scenery (especially on the viaduct through Harlem 125th St in Manhattan). Allowing more details to be added to platforms, more details to the trains. (Maybe more AC controls or sound files like motor sounds or compressor sounds under the trains) All of this and more could be added to just make the trains all that more realistic.

    I don't think hardware capabilities can really be justified in this case for low memory to load sounds, because it's a relatively small route (24 miles) to load textures, sounds, details, trains etc... and that means less space taken up which could possibly mean more space for details and sound files to play on the route and trains.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's always great for another American route making it's debut in TSW 2. The LIRR route seems like to me it was left frozen in time as with most routes from the old era of TSW. I know the preservation crew took a look and updated it as well, but it still needs to be taken care of. I just don't want this to be another LIRR route in a sense. 260 services is great, but like some have said. This really is only going to look great if the AI is working great and we get to see multiple services overpassing or stopping at the right times.

    Because this route features quad or 4 tracks for the majority of the route. Frequencies should not be a major problem when it comes to express and local overtakes. There is also a decently long 3rd track section too, that should be interesting to see how priority and the AI and us players use that 3rd express track in Westchester county. It should only be used during peak rush hour express and as a bypass track like it is used in real life. Then finally we have the double track section coming into White Plains.

    I'm excited for this route and that is what I think of this. Great potential for this route, all that's needed is for DTG to make those amazing details come to life on this short but very capable route.
     
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  39. mcskimmingj

    mcskimmingj Member

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    Why do we keep getting small short sections of a longer line like this 23 mile section of a 53 mile route to southeast when there are routes in the game that are already that length or even longer I know not every route has to be huge but barely even half the line is just a huge let down same with the luzern route being so short of a longer route not sure if I'll be buying either route which is a shame because this is a line I've wanted for a while but this short of a length is a kick in the teeth sorry to be negative
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's because of the "complex scenery" even though would only be for a few miles of track in Manhattan and parts of The Bronx along with self imposed time constraints. The end point northbound is just a turnaround point for local services really whilst the express run local north of white plains to southeast which is the actual terminus for the express services which unfortunately the route won't go too but at least you can do back and forth services to/from North White Plains even if it isn't the full line
     
  41. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    There is NOTHING respectful in this comment and I find it extremely insensitive and rather childish to be honest. Definitely shows your "handle" on here is rather ironic because someone with common sense would not resort to personal attacks to others that have a differing opinion.

    As a parent that has raises two boys afflicted with ADHD and have struggled over the years to insure they could be successful - (One now a journeyman pipe-fitter with a family and the other just finishing his Master's level degree in the UK and starting a career) I would request you be a less condescending and avoid such personal generalizations with those who hold differing opinions.
     
  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how what you quoted is disrespectful. There are some who like to play longer services, whilst there are other's who prefer shorter services or those who perhaps don't have the time to play for 2-3+ hours for a myriad of reasons. That's just the reality. Not really insensitive to be honest unless your that sensitive
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  43. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Broadly telling people that they have a limited attention span, is, to be fair, quite disrespectful.

    I really don’t think comments like that help anyones cause to be honest, it just degrades the entire thread and changes it from being feedback to being a huge squabble-fest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's subjective to be honest. There are some people who simply can't or don't have the time to play video games for several hours for whatever reason and there really is nothing wrong with that at all. That's not a bad thing. If a player is unable to finish a game for whatever reason they either find the time to play for a while or save it if they don't got time and come back to it when they have the time to continue. I do that all the time when I gotta do something. If only tsw2 had a reliable save feature though. There are some that can play for hours and hours and again there is nothing wrong with that. It's just the reality and that isn't a bad thing whatsoever
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  45. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    You know just because this routes 23 miles of track is 3rd rail powered doesn't mean no other trains could be used or be seen on it.For example if the ASC64 was swapped out with a diesel(repainted to amtrak livery)it would fit right into this route.Also now that i think of it a repainted MTBA train could also work because there is also a commuter train just like it on this route.
     
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    An F40 looks nothing like a P32 though nor does an acs64 which is powered via overhead wires. The mbta shoreliner cars aren't the same because Metro-North uses Shoreliner 3 and 4 sets while the ones on Boston Sprinter are much older versions of the shoreliner. I think they are the gen 1 or 2s.

    I bet someone will probably make a metro north livery for the boston sprinter shoreliners though via creators club
     
  47. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    When this route do release, someone should really make a comparison side by side video of the game version to the real life version. On YouTube to see if it’s accurate in term of scenery, rolling stock and station and other asset and building along the route.
     
  48. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    No not that train there a single level passenger cars on this line that look just like the cars pulled by the MTBA trains.(They have either red or blue stripes on them).As for the ASC64 there are already in game locos which could be used if there was a way to do it on this route.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The cars pulled by the mbta trains are called shoreliners. Metro north has gen 3 and 4 whilst boston sprinter has gen 1 or gen 2. I wonder if there is a shoreliner from boston sprinter that was painted in a metro north livery that's in creators club.

    Or were you referring to the metroliners which are the cars pulled by the acs64?
     
  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The Harlem line is strictly a commuter line. Amtrak locos and rolling stock would not be seen there.. The Hudson and New Haven lines are a different matter.
     
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