Train Sim World 2 - First Look Metro Norths Harlem Line

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I have a hunch as well, but hopefully we will get the metro north shoreline this year and along with the rest of the Metro North Rolling stock and Engine this year.
     
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  2. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that’s cute… but no..
    You are free to interpret what I said and feel how you wish, solely your responsibility. You having children with their own set of afflictions for which no one asked about, have little to nothing to do with what I said. So I stand firmly by what I said.
     
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Continuing the theme of "respect"....
     
  4. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Well, clearly that bit of information about his personal life had nothing to do with the topic at hand. If I recall, I didn’t address him first, nor his kids I knew nothing of. But go ahead and ignore his attempts at jabbing over a handle and cherry pick what I say.
     
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  5. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

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    Gentlemen, can we have one forum that doesn't result in arguments or insults, this forum is used by families! No wonder why mods are locking forums, this one is going down that particular path, enough is enough!
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Your initial post was hardly respectful either. As so often "Respectfully" or "with all due respect" is used as a defensive feint when what follows is, inevitably, something which is nothing of the sort. Boiled down to basics, you were saying "I can't help it if stupid morons prefer other gameplay to what cool smart people like me do."
     
  7. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Like I basically told the person I responded to… I will say to you.

    How you interpret what I say is YOUR sole responsibility. What I said and how you take it. Is two different things.
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Some people are so sensitive on these forums. Who knew saying that there are players that can't or don't have time to play a service for several hours on end for whatever reason whist others can (which isn't offensive but a fact) would offend people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  9. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Do you guys think LIRR M7/M3 are gonna come with the upgrades that M7A/M3A right before the Harlem Line comes out in a update or we gonna have to wait awhile?
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It'll probably be after. I hope they use the audio from the m7a and m3a and put it on the lirr m7 and m3 since they sound exactly the same in real life
     
  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    If we get any Preservation Crew updates this week, wouldn't they be for Peninsula Corridor and its locos? They were top of the list last I looked.
    Any improvements to the M7A/M3A due to the Harlem line wouldn't immediately be ported to LIRR. The Clinchfield SD40 is still waiting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  12. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    I really already replied to this, but to be sure I personally did not take it as insulting. Presumptive, perhaps. At the time, I found it hyperbolic. Certainly, I don't think the intent was to insult someone's children.

    Really, I think a lot of this back-and-forth has to do with frustration. Its easy for me, because I don't feel like the route is too short. But, for someone who does, what can they do? Basically just not buy it, to register their discontent. To, probably, no effect on DTG at all. And then not get to play it? So, venting here is really all that can be done.

    Clearly, to be debating on this forum means you must care about the game. And, if the route were to be suddenly announced to be longer, I would be 100% onboard. Thinking about all this, I was wondering if there could be another way for DTG to plan routes, maybe get more community input BEFORE major decisions are made. I know they have their own internals to consider. And, there are some who would probably demand more, or the most, all the time. But, I would be interested in finding a better way.

    As far as the Harlem Line goes (pun!), what more can be said? We are getting whatever's coming, and I hope it will be worth it. I appreciate all the diverse points of view on this thread.
     
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  13. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    I mean they did say the order can change at anytime and Adam said he does plan on putting the PIS on the M7. But I have a feeling it could be after. Just gonna look weird having the messed up versions and the newer ones which hopefully have better sounds.
     
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  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Do we know for sure if they'll update the LIRR stock or it's just speculations? Anyway I wouldn't mind, as the LIRR rolling stock currently is very buggy, both the M3 and M7.

    Anyway one thing I really hope is that this route will have better scenery than LIRR did. Because the stations and some close scenery was pretty good on LIRR, but then all scenery ended two blocks from the tracks, and it was clearly visible. Very often you can see the emptiness even from cab view. So hopefully Harlem Line will do better in this regard. Thankfully recent routes seem to be much better in terms of distant scenery, so I'm hopeful.
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I mean dtg do look at the suggestion forum as one way to decide a route. Ironically there were a couple of suggestions for the harlem line way before this route was officially announced but the suggestions I saw were asking the route to go from Grand Central to Southeast which is the full electrified section of the line, not North White Plains. So even if dtg do go ahead and make a route that has been suggested, they won't make the full line of the route even if it isn't 100+ miles long or make it how it was sugessted.

    Some people may not buy it, but frankly dtg will still make the amount of money they predicted they probably could make on it so if some players won't buy it, it won't really affect dtg as you say. But I think what should be clear to dtg considering the backlash is that for future Metro-North routes, players want the full line of the route and not only part of the line. Metro-North routes aren't 100+ miles long. The New Haven line is 74 miles with 30 stations. The Hudson line is 73.5 miles with 29 stations in total. The electrified section of the hudson line is only 33.2 miles and the full electric section of the Harlem line is 53 miles with 31 stations. With the assets of manhattan already made, the length of the other two lines would be much shorter since they don't gotta remake the same assets of Manhattan and The Bronx again. There aren't many american passenger routes in the game and it does sometimes feel like these routes get the short end of the stick if you know what I mean compared to a british or german route.

    Business talks in the end though
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  16. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, they will upgrade it alongside the Harlem Line, it shouldn't take that long for them to fix it. Imagine they might surprise us on Thursday or tomorrow steam stating that they have updated the audio as well with the LIRR Preservation crew update, Wouldn't that be something unexpected :cool::D
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  17. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I sure really hope so as well, because i agree the LIRR building and asset doesn't really portray the meaning of City life and atmosphere and ambient at all.
     
  18. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Just speculation but you right its probably not that hard to give them the upgrades. They kinda are copies of them. Maybe that's why they haven't fixed the issues for LIRR M7/M3 right away because they know they are gonna be working on those type of trains for the Harlem Line so they held off on fixing them. Has me thinking that's why we have a short route too. So they can actually focus on fixing these trains.
     
  19. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    We've found that DTG does not directly respond to forum suggestions in planning routes because, frankly, many, if not most, suggestions are on the impractical or fanciful side.
    Like any business, they will produce what sells and commuter rail clearly does. So, apparently, does North American heavy freight and German inter city. So those are what you see reflected in product releases. Many of us hope that SOS will prove popular too, so that we can see more steam routes in the future.
    So, if you think of sales as an indication of " community input ", then what you suggest is already happening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    To a certain extent though really.
     
  21. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    That can also be the reason like you said, but we won't know until maybe tomorrow or on thursday live stream. :D
     
  22. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    This system from the screenshot was used for the Metro North Railroad from around 2009-2019 (orange LED's). It will be great to see them use the new PIS systems that were featured in 2020.
     
  23. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Lol, thanks for using my video as a reference, this is my youtube channel, Railfan89. Enjoy the vid and stay tuner for more railfanning
     
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  24. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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    Well, like I said, even most of those "opposed" to a route, for whatever reason, could end up buying it. And, as you said, the official suggestions forum has not been, and is not currently, effective. To me, there really isn't a space for community input after a route has been decided upon, but before it is mostly finished. And, we are not talking about huge groups of people, on either side. This is a niche product. DTG could take advantage of the community's input in route development. They could also "take advantage" of the community by just releasing whatever, because they know we'll probably buy it, although I don't believe that to be happening.

    In any case, I'm probably little off topic at this point. Perhaps I'll start a new thread in the suggestions forum. Haha.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG will probably just note the suggestion and won't really do anything about it. As you said the suggestions forum isn't really effective and we can only give thoughts on a route once it is close to being finished and released.
     
  26. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I am unsure. Probably not. But I won't rule out the possibility entirely unless it has been confirmed by an official source (correct me if i'm wrong).
    It would be nice to have the LIRR M7 and M3 both get updated sounds, model revamps and fixed sound issues. But as I currently see it I just don't think it's feasible at the moment. Maybe in the future?

    That being said, Metro North's M7A and M3A are slightly different from their LIRR counterparts as I presumed you knew. They should ideally be updated from their LIRR counterparts with updated sounds and textures and lighting.
    A pet peeve I had was the fact that the LIRR M7's still don't have working PIS on the sides of the trains in the form of the LED red electronic changing displays. I can understand it was released when this technology was not implemented yet in TSW, but it should be added given if they found a way to make it work.

    Because this is a "first look" I'm taking it with a grain of salt like we all should. Nothing is finished nor finalized yet and there's plenty of time for things to change or differ. But pointing this out as with other who have done so is important. I can guess DTG knows this by now. I'm hoping for working PIS on the LED screens outside of the M7A's. If all routes are being released with such PIS screens both on trains and PIS on stations. Then it should be able to come to the M7A.

    (Off Topic):
    FYI: The LIRR M3's have been out of service since 2020. I am unsure if they will ever return to service as they have been supplemented and succeeded by the M9 cars. That being said, I doubt any change will occur to the LIRR M3's in TSW 2. However the Metro North's M3A's are still going strong and running regularly to this day in passenger service.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  27. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I did not know this was your youtube channel. :D I really do hope that they will put it in some station at least the most important ones.:D
     
  28. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    If M3 is out of service, which rolling stock and train are running on this line? What replaces the M3s?
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The Kawasaki M9 EMU replaced the Budd M3 Emu on the MTA Long Island Railroad. I'm glad those trains are out of service. The seats on the M3 were very worn and in instances when I would be on the train, they were torn up. The MTA Long Island Railroad didn't take good care of the m3 compared to Metro-North with their M3A's. The M3A's are in a much better condition compared to the LIRR M3's when they being taken out of service
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  30. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    We've been waiting almost half a year for Peninsula Corridor's preserved crew update, and yet somehow people think they're going to update LIRR's stock in time for Metro North's release?
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    And players have been waiting for more than a year for the audio fixes for the m7 and m3.
     
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  32. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    The in-game MBTA coaches aren't Shoreliners, they're BTC-3 (trailers) and CTC-3 (cab) cars, built by MBB, while the Shoreliners (from I to IV) were designed and built by Bombardier Transportation and are cousins of most of the Comets used by NJT. MBTA does operate some Comet/Shoreliner relatives but they aren't in game (unfortunately). As for the "Metroliners," those are Amfleets, which are based on the Metroliner body, but the Metroliner was an EMU, not an unpowered coach.

    MBTA coach from MBB (notice the more rounded roof and wider door)
    [​IMG]

    Bombardier Shoreliners (notice the more squared off roof and narrower, less flush doors)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh I got it wrong. They look very similar. I meant to say amfleets as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
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  34. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Good evening lads, just wanted to say I enjoy the drama and love longer routes.
     
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  35. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Those MBTA coaches are the closest thing we got in the game. I'll probably will use them on the Harlem Line in scenario planner just for fun.
     
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  36. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Maybe until we see the NJ Transit as a route then we will likely see the shoreline coach
     
  37. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    To an extent, you’re correct. Although I’m not as vested into TSW as I’ve been with TS, I do care about the route, because it is something I’m familiar with. But I do wanna see TSW succeed. I just personally feel the replay value for me is quite low for the time being because of routes like this being pushed out. I’ve wanted LIRR for TS but of course TSW got it and struggled to keep my interests.

    My point is that at the very least, there needs to be some a middle ground here. The fact other territories tend to receive content that is more complete in a sense in comparison to what is given here in the U.S., is nuts, and sorta indicates we’re not worthy enough to have something as satisfactory as what is seen in other dlc’s. BML being a prime example. And this take what we can get mentality honestly doesn’t serve us well because it’s just indicative and supportive of the idea that people will part ways with your money for something that could have been better realized.

    Some are cool with short runs. But that can be achieved with ease on almost every route DTG has made. Just because a scenario could last 20-120 minutes, no one is obligated to sit through it in it’s entirety. As far as I know there’s no penalty for taking a break through pause or save.

    An excuse was made as to why we couldn’t receive more mileage that was suitable enough to warrant some level of replay value. And dare I say came from a certain individual who out their own mouth mentioned two infamous features that still remain absent as selling points for TSW before it was made available to the public.

    So that all together is something I feel being someone who is fairly observant, to question the credibility behind the things being said.
    And we can’t pretend that this isn’t the same company that made the bizarre choice to push out the that 1st TSW NEC to the point it is the the only route to not make the transition to TSW2.

    I don’t know what criteria these folks actually following. But when it comes to the American side of things. The bar seems to me set fairly low.
     
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  38. carter

    carter Active Member

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    Maybe it’ll be like Forest hills on Boston sprinter.
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't own Boston Sprinter so I don't know what forest hills looks like
     
  40. ehz0689

    ehz0689 Well-Known Member

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    who
     
  41. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    He's referring to me. Beta tester and developer. Made the track for Boston Sprinter in 2019, as well as other things.
     
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  42. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    The MBTA uses CTC-3 and BTC-3 single level coaches but the Metro North users Shoreliners I, II, III, and IV.
     
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  43. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I see you are incapable of understanding how you come across… and my children are in their 30’s and 40s at this point. Was trying point out how to not come across as you did, but since you want to stand firm with what you said, it gives me a gauge on how to evaluate the rest of your opinions and comments.

    enjoy
     
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  44. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, two distinct differences.

    The Shoreliners on Metro North have more directly followed their older Comet design by having more "Boxy squared" bodies rather than MBB's CTC-3 and BTC-3 coaches which are more curved and less "Boxy" but maybe a little more stylish.
    Albeit both variations have begun to show their age. Sometime in the near future the Shoreliners as well as the BTC and CTC coaches will be replaced. Same goes for the Comet II, III IV and V later on.
    So ride them while you still can. Their time is running short every year that passes by.

    But nonetheless they all belong to the same relative family of coaches. Which began with the Comet coaches for
    NJ Transit. I would love to see the Shorliners arrive to TSW 2, but it wouldn't make sense to add them along with the P32 since the portion of the route being made ONLY is electrified section.
    If it was non-electrified then it would make sense. But those P32 and Shorliners can run under 750 volt 3rd rail power as they are dual mode capable as they do in real life. No real incentive to add them unless they add a portion that is not 3rd rail.
     
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  45. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    I will still like to see them despite the route length and services. They do run some services from grand central all the way towards North White Plains. What matters is they at least make it into the game. Then this will allow other opportunities to open like making the Hudson line. They will have the trains they need they can even make the Amtrak P32 and we already have the amfleets. Remember dovetail don't make US passenger routes like that and who knows how long when the next one will be after they release the Harlem Line. I'll take anything I can get.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
  46. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Your right this route really comes up short being a short 23 miles and worst still it only includes 2 semi recycled trains.This route comes off as a less glamourus version of the LIRR.
     
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  47. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Exactly I feel by us saying there's no point in adding the P32 we are just closing the door ourselves on a possible opportunity with out us even knowing it. Then we are really stuck with just the M7A/M3A.
     
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  48. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Well, again, you are free to feel however way you wish. I, as well as a few others, know perfectly well how I came across. Yet, like your first attempt, you once again used your autobiography as a means to express how offended you were by something I said that had and still has absolutely no relevance to do with the point I was making. So your personal convictions of me hold no weight.

    You had the choice to keep that information to yourself or simply ignore my comment/opinion altogether.

    You call yourself trying to "teach" someone how to come across, yet made that cute little quip on my handle for the sake of making a jab at me (none of which is new or original to me, being that you're far from the first person nor likely the last behind the comfort and safety of a keyboard to do so), was counterproductive to the argument you came up with. But sure, your conclusion of me is supposed to mean something.

    Unbothered and Unmoved over this back and forth.

    As you were.:cool:
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is for this line though is that p32s would only be running along this part of the line during rush hour times really. All other times they would be running shuttle services from southeast to wassic. So it really wouldn't make sense to add them only for a few services really. Sure the M7A and M3A are semi recycled trains but the route should still be enjoyable nonetheless even if it's short in length if you liked using the M7 on lirr.

    It's not closing the door. It's just the reality. Also it would seem odd to have a p32 but not be able to use the diesel mode because the line is not on a non electrified part of the line.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
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  50. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Don't they switch to diesel as soon as they exit the tunnel?
     

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