Harlem Line Preview - Question Thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by DTG JD, Mar 9, 2022.

  1. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    For me once again the unprofessionalism of DTG showed up. Grand Central Terminal at 08.20hrs and no passengers. Matt was surprised and said he would investigate. So did nobody check such an important aspect before the stream? Won’t be holding my breath that it’s resolved for release day.
     
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  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    This is also something that frequently crosses my mind. I mean sure, no software release is ever bug free, but being surprised by such an obvious issue that is noticeable in the first minute of gameplay?

    I assume it something that might've been working in previous version but somehow they broke it for this version. But they said this is technically the release version... so that's quite concerning. Does noone playtest the RELEASE version before showcasing and releasing it? And then they wonder why it's a "niche" market with low sales volumes.

    Anyway I hope for a quick fix, as if it's still in this state at release, then sadly there is no way I'm buying it until it's fixed.
     
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  3. carter

    carter Active Member

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    Is it realistic for the express trains from Southeast to not stop at Harlem-125 street.
     
  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Saw the stream and I'm wondering is there the option to switch train lengths like the LIRR M7 & M3 which are 6, 8 & 10 carriages
     
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  5. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Don't think so
     
  6. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I noticed just didn't mention it.
    It sounds really loud and the sounds make it sounds like more of a whistle than the propulsion as the train goes faster.
     
  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I meant M3A sorry.
     
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  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    LIRR's way of selectin train length was the stupidest decision ever. The original way of simply selecting a service and then getting the train length based on the selected service is much better.

    Also I suppose it depens on if Harlem Line trains come in different lengths or they are all just 8 or 10 car sets.
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    There are some exceptions but most express services do stop at harlem 125th street
     
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  10. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I noticed there was another train following Matt’s train when he was driving the M3A. Every time he arrived at a station, the other one was more or less right behind. I know they do that, but is it typical for one to follow so closely behind?
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    No it is not. Trains on the metro north railroad don't stop inches from one another. Not sure why that happens in the route when it wouldn't happen in real life. Drivers would stop at a certain distance if there is a train directly ahead and not just stop directly next to the train
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
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  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For the Harlem line, these are 6, 8 & 10 Cars of M7A M3A. M7A cannot run to Southeast as 10 cars due to Substation issues North White Plains to Brewster 1983 electrification
     
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  13. carter

    carter Active Member

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    OK because on the stream an m7 does not stop at Harlem 125th street.
     
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  14. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Metro North does operate 4*, 6, 8, 10 and 12* car trains on both the Hudson and Harlem lines.
    6, 8 and 10 being normal, 4 and 12 cars being somewhat rare and sometimes used.

    However, sometimes you will see the M3A's running as 12 car formations (they are rather common).
    Rarely do the M7A's run in 12 car formations. Most of the time the M3A tends to run with longer trains (10 or 12 cars) than the M7A. (6 or 8 cars normally, 10 and 12 rare)

    4 car trains are possible on the Metro North. They are really only used as shuttles or special trains on special days.

    But seeing a 4 car train is quite rare, as mentioned above they don't always operate and rarely do. Only when it is a special day or service or shuttle.
    Sometimes if there is a shuttle or service interruption from Harlem 125th Street to Grand Central, 4 car M3A and M7A might be used to transport passengers.
     
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  15. Louie

    Louie Well-Known Member

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    Try to make the lighting for Grand Central like Atlantic terminal
    Grand Central is too dark and I think you guys should fix the Lighting for example use the same technique you did for Atlantic terminal Brooklyn
    9C56CD16-E8BA-40C6-992C-4BC780093881.jpeg

    And I’ll show you a picture of Grand Central
    01A35CBF-52A1-4E36-9AEA-FF6C3FC59E6A.png
    As you can see it’s just way too dark please try to fix it thank you
    And here’s a picture of the real Grand Central
    10B8AE5C-C689-4D1E-8ADE-A90949ADB318.jpeg
    31593F44-5B99-47A2-9070-185AF4516962.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
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  16. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    • Q1 Based on the preview stream which was called by Matt a final build for Xbox. When will more train passengers be added?
    • Q2 What is so hard about NPC's that they are not spread all over the urban scenery?
     
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  17. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone notice how the train was going through quite a few tree branches on the stream. Like when it leaves Melrose at 36:35 in the stream. There was few other times as well. Hopefully they get that sorted out.
     
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  18. R3DWolf91

    R3DWolf91 Well-Known Member

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    I've been a long time player, but wanted to start a forum account to post some comments and suggestions after watching a replay of the live stream over the weekend. Some of these have been mentioned already, but I'd like to reiterate some points made.

    - Grand Central Terminal is a tad too dark, and should have additional lighting. It's not daylight down there, but it is lighter than that.

    - The terminal is too quiet; there should be more fan noise from train blower motors and vent fans circulating air from the platform levels.

    - Please program AI trains to trigger the horns when approaching stations (except for GCT). Playing a scenario last night on the WSR, the Class 33 I was taking over did this entering the station, so the tech should be there.

    - It was mentioned that some freight cars will be added to liven up the route. Please be careful with this as freight on the lower end of the Harlem is pretty much nonexistent. I did see some tank cars in NWP Yard, which is a nice touch, but please don't mistake these as freight. The real ones are in MTA blue and are for MoW crews. I saw a portion of the Oak Point Link is present... this would be an excellent spot to layer in a string of freight cars parked.

    - The sounds on both units are great, especially the M7. I do have a couple small nit-picky things though...
    1) I didn't hear it in the stream, but the trucks on these have a very distinct "CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK" when crossing over rail joints. You may want to look into adding this, or increasing the track noise for the route.
    2) It may not be possible, but please consider adding audio train information to the passenger interior. The prototypes play a chime, then an audio message that states, for example "This is the train to GRAND CENTRAL, the next stop is WHITE PLAINS. As you exit the train, please watch the gap between the train and the platform." I think even playing just the chime and the "gap" portion of the message triggered by the train doors opening would add a ton more personality to the M7.

    - Please be sure to balance the M3 and M7 services. M7s are far more numerous on the line, with the M3s being used more on peak local services from Croton and NWP. It's been a long time since I've had a ride an M3, but I usually connect with electric trains at Southeast after transferring from Wassaic (pronounced wah-say-ick, looking at you Matt lol).

    - I've noticed on routes on the Series X where the platform is shorter than the train length, that all of the doors on the train will open regardless if there is platform there or not. I don't remember if this was shown on the stream or not, but I do remember Matt noting not all platforms hold the train fully; this is true, but please make sure the trains are programmed to only open doors that are platformed.

    - Matt kept noting that trains go express after North White Plains, but hopefully this was just misspoken. Trains go express after White Plains.

    - I will start new threads for these, but please seriously consider train DLC for this route. In particular, P32ACDMs and Shoreliner coaches and cabs are a very common sight on this trackage.

    - Please, please, please consider an extension of the route to Southeast. The central portion of the Harlem is very scenic and has some beautiful and interesting stations, as well as a yard and wye in Brewster (Southeast). I would be happy to volunteer for research trips for DTG if this moves into production.

    Overall, this DLC looks great!
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
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  19. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Hes not wrong you know. Hes right technically, although trains do make a stop at White plains, North White Plains does begin and/or ends the Express section
     
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  20. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    M8s are more preferable beause P32s ONLY are on the upper level and the upper level isnt simulated, the services capable of running direct trains from Wassiac to GCT are EXTREMLY limited(Like to rush hours only). And even Matt gave out a hint for us to request the M8s. There is a chance that they do wanna make the M8 as a dlc, but the want to community to show they want it(Unrelated). The ONLY way if we get a P32 is IF this route gets an extesion to either Southeast OR AT LEAST Greystone(Both are highly unlikely)
     
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  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The lower level is the one that's not simulated.
     
  22. R3DWolf91

    R3DWolf91 Well-Known Member

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    My point is more that express services hopefully aren't skipping White Plains in game. I know the North-prefix gets confusing, which is why Brewster North was changed to Southeast years ago.
     
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  23. R3DWolf91

    R3DWolf91 Well-Known Member

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    I've been on push-pull trains out of the lower level, they use both. They are also used on Hudson through trains, Wassaic through trains, and Waterbury, New Haven, and Danbury trains. While not as numerous as the MUs, they make more sense than the M8. They can perform the same service pattern as an express M7, and just give the usual "another driver will take over your train" a la every other route that's not simulated in full. The M8 on this particular section of line would be more or less eye candy, considering they'd be hitting Fordham, period. You'd see them coming in and out of the route from Woodlawn, and whatever occasional set pops up to Croton, but that's it.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Why are trains stopping in mere inches from one another? While yes drivers will have to be prepared to stop if they are at a restricted speed limit, in reality if there is a train ahead of another train in real life operators don't actually have their train stop inches from one another. They would be a gap or distance between two trains until a train leaves the station. That behavior of trains stopping inches from one another isn't realistic at all.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    M8s wouldn't make sense as a dlc for this route. They only stop at two stations. 125th and fordham which aren't far apart before splitting off the harlem line at woodlawn. New Haven line express services only stop at 125th before running express to stamford before they run local east of stamford to new haven

    What would make more sense is a New Haven line dlc from Grand Central to New Haven Union Station with the Kawasaki M8 EMU's. If you were to own that then the m8 could be a layer to harlem
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  26. R3DWolf91

    R3DWolf91 Well-Known Member

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    Even to Stamford would be reasonable, as the distance isn't extraordinary, and there is a yard there
     
  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's the new haven line, not the Stamford line. New haven is the end of the line and so if there is a new haven line dlc, it should be the full line to new haven, not Stamford.
     
  28. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    The minimum which they got right is 6 car trains. But 6 car train from Atlantic Terminal to Hempstead DO NOT run 6 cars. The Far Rockaway Branch runs 6 car trains. The minimum of cars on the Hempstead Branch is 8 Cars(ATL to Hempstead) and the Max is 10 cars(NYP to Hempstead)
     
  29. R3DWolf91

    R3DWolf91 Well-Known Member

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    The mainline to New Haven is 74 miles long and takes over two hours from departure to arrival. Stamford is 33 miles and roughly an hour from GCT, and has the option of the New Canaan branch for variety. Considering the same limitations they faced for the Harlem, I feel Stamford is reasonable. Not to mention consideration of players time. I don't know about you, but after work I don't exactly have two/+ hours to spend staring out a virtual windshield. You have to look at it from different perspectives. Providence is not the end of the Corridor, but who is going to A) sit down and model the route in its completion to DC, and B) drive it in a sitting.
     
  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Oh please. It would be less since the part up to Woodlawn is already made. It would be reasonable. If you don't have the time to complete a long service, play a shorter service. DTG has done a good job in giving players shorter services. Anyways discussing the new haven line is moot really since there is no new haven line dlc planned. It would be nice to see it though someday.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
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  31. GoldenTicket420

    GoldenTicket420 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to first say I love what I saw and I'm buying regardless the condition the game is released in due to my love and loyalty for the game and my city cheers. Now with that being said I must point out the things that do bother me which are night lighting, track noise, 266 services and like many said before there were no passengers seen whatsoever. I would not mind if you guys had to take a little extra time implement night lighting at least. Considering you've held back plenty of UK routes in the past including in specific to London commuter to better build the route to the liking of its fans. Honestly I would have even loved to see on and off option for electrical third rail Sparks as a feature to the route but as always I feel like the US Route is already lacking. I love Rize Dresden for the fact of the night lighting plus the variety and as always I've never seen a u.s. route over 400 or 500 services which sucks because although 266 is probably the highest we've seen so far that honestly sucks in comparison to all the other UK and German routes. I will more than likely 100 percentage. This DLC in a month and a half or less just saying. Definitely an M8 DLC I add-on in the future would make a better completion to the route in my opinion. The last thing I really want to say and stress the most about is the track noise is almost not heard in any of the New York City routes. These trains in no means any New York city trains are quiet trackwise ever. I want to highly suggest bump up some track noise volume so people can hear the click clack as if they're going over Junctions. Overall the train sounds magnificent and I'm 100% please on that front. I hope you guys are reading all of our comments and well hopefully reconsider some of our thoughts and I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope to play and test myself as soon as it is out on Thursday or if you guys are listening maybe push back a little further. For that night lighting LOL wishful thinking sorry
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
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  32. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    If we are to see the M8, their will need to either be an extension to this route, or a new route will be released that allows M8 and M2/4/6 cars to probably run to New Canaan or New Haven or Stanford. But I think this might be months before we see this unless people show demand for another route.

    It would be nice to include both the M2/4/6 and M8 cars since the Harlem line is coming out with the M7A and M3A. If so and it is added to this route, this route Harlem/New Haven line would be pretty busy and look more realistic and be really great to operate trains on. It would be very diverse with the M2/4/6, M3A, M7A and the M8 trains all in service on one route.

    But because this is for the Harlem line, try to refrain from going off topic like I did. And remain on topic of the Harlem line.
    Add this to the route suggestions and extensions forums.
     
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  33. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    That’s what I said there was lots of assets missing from grand central terminal and like what I have mention before the ceiling fan wasn’t in the game, the ceiling fans are place on each side of the track corner that give that grand central terminal vibe and ambient and atmosphere. I don’t know how the team miss this like I told another member here, but I really do hope they will fix all of these problem and issue, after the route released since I have a bad feeling they can do it now since it close to getting released which is in 2 more days
     
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  34. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    This can only work after the fix the major bug issue in game which is the SAVE Function
     
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  35. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    That’s what I told Matt but he said he will see what he can do but can’t guarantee any promise for the track sounds
     
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  36. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I here vote for another Metro North Line to be added mostly the Connecticut Line that way we can see M8 and add more layer into Grand Central Terminal or better yet if they are willing to The Hudson Line I will be even more happy because that is my favorite line and there are many Train on this line such as the shoreline cab and Car, P32 Genesis in Metro North and New Haven Livery And other train engine as well
     
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  37. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    so which part of the grand central terminal are they trying to portray then?
     
  38. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if DTG would go to the level of detail to model the ceiling fans and it is unlikely to be the team missing them as a detail that exists. Stations, especially underground stations, take up a lot of game resources and some details have to be missed out for performance reasons. They could do the fans if it didn’t affect performance as they are quite prominent features, but them not being there is not a real problem or an issue as it doesn’t affect gameplay at all. Fans of fans may miss them but it’s not a big deal them not being there like missing PIS would be. As previously discussed, not every detail is going to be present in the game unfortunately.
     
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  39. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    How would a few model assets hurt performance in any way?
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt trash cans and fans would affect performance. Also it's only one underground station. What's next, DTG couldn't put the Gatwick Express advertising at London Victoria because it "affects performance"? Remember they made the route short to focus on "detail" so things like that do add a nice touch
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
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  41. R3DWolf91

    R3DWolf91 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't really expect animated fans or other objects, just a tweak on the volume and lighting. Like I mentioned previously, it is LOUD down there. Surely a sound file and increasing the brightness around the platform can't drop frames that badly.
     
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  42. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That would certainly help a lot.
     
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  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    How would they not? Everything uses up resources and has an impact.
    Every route is different. and it is the total number of assets and bits and bobs going on that affect performance. I can’t say for sure that a couple of fans at the end of each platform would cause a significant issue or if that’s why they aren’t there (they could have run out of dev time to model the bespoke assets required or any other number of reasons) but if during testing it was found that GCT was running at 10 fps, it’s those kind of non-essential things that would be removed first to optimise the performance in that area. Everybody complains when routes aren’t optimised and when the game crashes all the time but the alternative is exactly that. Massively detailed routes that nobody can use or useable optimised content.

    It can’t be discounted as a reason for the fans not being there any more than ‘the devs missing it’ or ‘the devs being lazy’ or any of the other things that get thrown around the forum. You can’t just dismiss it as a possible reason because it is a very possible reason. It’s an underground station essentially with multiple platforms and a lot of track so that’s going to be resource heavy. There will be a lot of scenery assets in the structure alone. Not making it too detailed is one way of guaranteeing it works. I’m not saying it’s definitely that but it is a possible cause and much more likely than leaving them out to purposely annoy people like some think they would do.
     
  44. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    stujoy Look at the London Victoria Route, and most of the other newer routes that came out, how come they have it, while we have little to none, it kinda of unfair.
     
  45. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Can we at least have them tell us so that we fans would know, instead of them not saying anything?
     
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  46. Louie

    Louie Well-Known Member

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    Matt said they might think about adding track expansion packs so it could be possible as a DLC
     
  47. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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  48. Louie

    Louie Well-Known Member

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    How?
     
  49. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Put the M7A in scenario planner on LIRR make sure to turn on the control systems first so it the PIS can automatically activate.
     
  50. surreychuff#3060

    surreychuff#3060 Active Member

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    Why no launch discount for PlayStation? Why do steam get a 10% discount? Don’t appreciate my £s being valued differently to steam players!

    route looks nice though
     

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