Very interesting! Excited for this route, but very confused why Luzern-Sursee hasn’t been previewed yet. According to info from the roadmap stream two weeks ago, it’s supposed to release before Harlem Line. So maybe next week’s stream is more of an early preview, with a few weeks to go until the final release?
It really all depends on which route is closer to being release-ready. Skyhook needed more time with HSC, so Rivet may be in a similar position with Lucerne.
But also don't forget that Harlem Line was announced last year around Thanksgiving, so the team have already been working on the route, and gathering resources
When it was announced and when they started working on it are two completely separate things with nothing to do with each other.
It is not the first time, and it won't be the last, that two routes arrive at the last stage of development at approximately the same time and not even the devs know exactly which of the two is going to be finished first. And even if they do finish at the same time (or just with a few days difference), the marketing department might say "hey, release this first".
This route is wonderful, so well designed but takes nearly 5gb of disk space, but it’s well worth it.
Has anyone managed to get gold on the M3A tutorial? I ran it for the first time and didn't quite get gold but didn't think anything of it, just gone back to try again and was 41 points short with no speeding (I dropped 1 point on a stop). Is it actually possible? Or am I just driving like a muppet
Great feedback, looking forward to this! I would add that its correct for the doors to have to be closed upon arrival at the terminal, most trains get fully shut down to be used later in the day. Since Grand Central is a terminal with 50 tracks, it also acts as a yard.
If I'm understanding you correctly, this is normal behaviour for when the speed limit applies from the back of the train (which I assume it does on this route) - the countdown on the HUD is to you as they player/driver (this goes for everything).
I have an issue with the Harlem Line : at least the M7 train is accelerating WAY too much (I did not check the M3) ! I measured more than 1,25 m/s² (2,8 mphps) on a flat track from 0 to 30 mph, whereas it should not exceed 0,9 m/s² (2 mphps) according to the Bombardier specs sheet. I uploaded a video where you can see it : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V-0yL3pbHOprnYzq-l7ShLJP3Hs9vhQ7/view?usp=sharing The M7 on the LIRR route accelerates in a more accurate way. What happened ? TrainSim-Matt what is your opinion on this ? 4 May 2024 EDIT : I regained some interest for the Harlem line thanks to the revamped LIRR DLC that was just released, found a cab ride that answers these findings. The TSW M7A actually accelerates way too much when looking at this cab ride, starting and accelerating with full throttle !
Apparently the acceleration on the M7A for Metro North is quicker than the one for Long Island, which is what you've posted.
Really enjoying the DLC so far. Both trains are fun to drive and it's a nice change from Bakerloo! Only issue I've found so far is that the M7 headlights don't light up the tunnels when in off board camera unless you're looking at the train head on.
The unit on this route is the M7A, not the M7. They are different from the LIRR stock, and Matt has mentioned that the Harlem Line units have different gearing compared to the LIRR trains. So maybe that's the reason? Can you get a similar info sheet for the MTA's M7A?
It would be highly surprising that the acceleration rate of the M7A could be that much higher even with a different gearing. It's third rail powered commuter train, by definition it can not draw as much power as other electric trains. For example the DB BR423, which has better IRL performance, accelerates slower IRL than the M7A does in-game. It's the same for the swiss RABe 511. According to this non-official website, the M7A does not differ that much from the M7 : http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/M7/lirrM7.htm Something feels really wrong in the M7A acceleration as reproduced in TSW 2
I forgot to mention that the 1,25m/s² I measured is better than the NYC subway itself (1,1m/s² for an R160 for example) and it is really close to some of the best subway rolling stock in the world (1,35 m/s²). In reality, a M7A is far from being that fast
I second this. Route looks amazing and I love the sound improvements for the M7A. It's nice to finally hear that humming sound you'd hear IRL once the train accelerates past 30 mph. However the acceleration does seem a bit too fast. Either that or I've just never been on a ride where the engineer went straight into full power from a standstill to experience its acceleration at 100% throttle.
But players shouldn't have to do that though. If the m7a does indeed accelerate too fast at full throttle then that needs to be fixed. I've been on an m7a many times and it is certainly not the fastest accelerating train in the world when at full power. Honestly many aspects of this route seems to have been rushed
Yes, in real life engineers often will not use full throttle and full braking, as they're told to drive efficiently. Of course, I don't know if the M7A performance is realistic or not, but simply going by feel as a passenger is not really a good way of determining it.
Sounds like DTG botched the Simugraph parameters. If the settings are wrong, sadly as we know physics tend not to get fixed with the usual excuses trotted out about botching the timetable, achievements etc. Think I will be waiting for a sale on this one.
You would be surprised how often drivers use the full throttle with commuters trains. It's not the same driving style as intercity trains. I've worked at SNCF in Paris for a few years and I can assure you that drivers do use full throttle often on the RER and Transilien commuter trains (when driving EMUs). With commuter trains you need to use the railway infrastructure at its best, with fast accelerations and braking to keep up with tight schedules, maximize train frequency and maximize the line PPHPD capacity (People Per Hour Per Direction). You still have some margin to keep up when you are a bit late, but not that much. It's another story on intercity, long-distance trains, where you drive more gently. But that's not what the Harlem line is about. Another example in Germany with the BR423 : (watch at 4m42s for example) - You can clearly hear the throttle hit the max notch when the driver starts at several stations, and you can see the traction indicator going to the max tractive effort allowed for this rolling stock. Anyways the main issue here is that the M7A is out of spec, it almost accelerates like some of the fastest subways in the world ... which is impossible in reality and needs to be corrected. When paying 30€ for a new DLC with recycled trains, I expect it to feature trains that are at least equal to the originals. So far, I'm underwhelmed.
Depends on the country and railway. In Japan for example commuter train drivers are often encouraged to not drive at 100% to be more energy efficient, so they accelerate slower and instead break harder.
Ok. Then prove that I'm wrong and please provide M7A specs sheet. But as you will see, 0,9 m/s² for the M7 can't translate to 1,25m/s² for the M7A. It's impossible. I thought TSW 2 meant to be realistic. At least it's how it describes itself Anyways I'm not willing to pay 30€ to have the impression of driving a kart, and I'm going to ask for a refund until this issue is fixed. Many other lines in the game are way more accurate and I'll stick to them.
I agree with you. However SNCF is very conservative and drivers are told to be efficient too, so it's pretty similar That is why I quoted this example I know very well, I think it fits in.
Knowing how the M7 performs, it's easy to guess how the M7A performs, even with a slightly different gear ratio or whatever. Period.
Simply fighting doesn't have much use. Honestly it would be good to know for sure if the performance is realistic or not. DTG has said that they used real engineer's opinion and they said the M7A is fine this way, but we may never know, they might be wrong. So it would be good if we really had some info about real M7A performance, because in case it's really wrong, then it needs to be fixed. But if it's realistic, then good.
Hey folks, if you are having some difficulties, we have a "How to drive on Harlem" guidance here. This will continue to get updated as and when required. https://dovetailgames.freshdesk.com...991871-how-to-drive-on-the-harlem-line-add-on
You are right. That's the first time I really feel the need to complain about a train in TSW 2. What I'm saying is backed by the official specs sheet and my experience in the railway industry. So there is some substance. Let's wait for an official answer, backed (i hope) by a M7A specs sheet... Thanks for this guide about the signaling system, it's good to know
I found this thread, which is unofficial, from an OpenBVE train developer quoting the same figures for the Metro North M7 : https://www.nyctransitforums.com/to...7-emu-development-in-progress/#comment-810924 He also says, which makes sense, that the LIRR M7 is capped to accelerate slower than 0,9 m/s² at full throttle in order to reduce current draw on the LIRR third rail. It's well reproduced in TSW 2 as I'm measuring about 0,75m/s² if I remember it correctly. There has clearly been something wrong in the development of the Metro North M7(A) for TSW2.
What do you mean I did? First of all an M7A doesn't do zero to 20 mph rapidly at full power as shown in the video. Do you honestly think that an M7A which is not very different to an M7 would accelerate that fast? The differences are minor. They produce the same power output. Both the M7 and M7A collect power from 750 V DC Third Rail. The M7A collects power from an underunning third rail and that's for safety reasons on the railroad. The idea of that is so if people for whatever reason touch the top of the third rail, all the voltage wouldn't be on the top part of the rail. They have vents on the roof and other minor differences that aren't performance related. In lirr trains get power from a overrunning third rail. The M7A IS an M7 but designed to run on the MTA Metro-North Railroad. You act like they are completely different when the differences are minor. Also in the Metro-North Railroad drivers do use full power as a efficient way to keep with time. My uncle works on the Metro-North railroad and uses full power all the time. He drives on the New Haven line but before did a brief stint on the Hudson Line. I remember him taking me on a ride a while back. It was nice to be honest Look if you don't believe me that's fine. But if you have never been on a M7A or inside a cab of an M7A when going full power, than your statement is moot.
The route is pretty realistic, well done DTG. I have seen some yellow buses but haven’t seen any yellow cabs, which litter the streets of New York and it’s suburbs. Surely these cannot be missing, so had anyone seen any?
Well Yellow cabs do litter the streets of Manhattan. However there are rare occurrences of seeing yellow cabs in The Bronx. This is because there isn't that much demand for yellow cabs up here. Reason being is because yellow cabs charge you for every minute of the ride instead of a pre determined or flat fare in a regular taxi so it would be more expensive to use a yellow taxi instead of a regular limousine taxi in the outer boroughs of New York City The City did make NYC Borough Taxi which are like a yellow taxi but green and don't run below 110th Street in Manhattan. Green taxis charge you for every minute your in the cab so demand for the green taxi isn't high hence why it is hard to find one in The Bronx.
Speaking with our contact at Metro North, he describes basic accel specs as min 0.5mph/s with max 2mph/s and almost instant power with zero loading time. He says it feels a little sharp on the bottom end in the sim perhaps but nothing particularly notable. In reality If you whack the max controller into full it is indeed going to behave like a go-kart but that's not how the engineers run them. 800amps of power per car with all bogies powered, max 10 car sets giving 8kA of power.
Thanks for your feedback 2 MPHPS = 0,9 m/s² starting from 0 mph, which is way below the 1,25 m/s² I measured from 0 to 30 mph. It should be understood that even with max throttle you can't exceed this 0,9 m/s² value on dry rails. You did a great job at developing the LIRR M7, it should have been easy to reproduce it on the M7A with just a little more punch as they are not capped and can use their full power to accelerate at the rate of 0,9m/s². I really anticipated this route and I'm really disappointed Better luck next time...
I don't know about MTA drivers, but I do remember reading something by a British commuter EMU driver who said that slamming the controller straight into 4 from a standing start is very much frowned upon; there are in fact minimum recommended speeds for each notch.
That is true. You generally do not have to use full throttle from start. But to measure performance you do. It's the same for cars, you floor it and when you reach 100 km/h you have the time needed for the 0-100km/h (0 to 60 MPH in the USA?) . It's the same for measuring max train acceleration and that is what I did in the video to demonstrate the exaggerated starting acceleration that can't be reached with the power-per-ton ratio and gearing of the M7/M7A. That's just for the sake of realism, of 30€ DLCs This video was not a driving tutorial
Yeah you're right I'm so stupid, I know nothing about trains. It's not like I'm a train engineer (not driver, engineer). Oh LOVE, I'm going to sell bread, that will be better, you're so right. Nice one you've got there.
I have noticed that the AI freight train that goes underneath the bridge at Harlem river doesn’t have clearance as far as height is concerned. It drives into the upper Harlem track and doesn’t look realistic. Another point is does the line have Realistic timetable for AI trains for the Hudson branch. Doesn’t look like. I have also noticed trains sometimes pilling up the line since it doesn’t move the rest just pull out behind them. Other than that looks great
As far as sound we definitely need more track noise. Is far too quiet. Especially when you go over certain spots you should hear the track noises
You perfectly know your question was not awaiting any answer. You perfectly know that I never drove the M7 train as I work for the french train industry. But trains are no witchcraft. They are predictable. The specification of the uncapped M7 and M7A is 0,9 m/s² IRL. In the game, it goes up to at least 1,25 m/s². That's a fact. That needs to be adressed if one cares for realism. Along with other members, I provided informations about the M7 to justify it. You just chose to ignore them and you failed to provide any proof that the M7A is different performance-wise. Just stop doing your show. The TSW 2 LIRR M7 is accurate. The TSW 2 Metro North M7A is fantasy. It's not the first time that a rolling stock in TSW behaves in a bad way. If it does not bother you, good for you. But stop mocking people that care for realism and raise concerns, or don't be surprised if you get answered in a sarcastic manner by the very people you chose to annoy.
