Metro North Harlem Line: A Review

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by skyMutt, Mar 21, 2022.

  1. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    TLDR: A very solid commuter-styled route with good scenery and very enjoyable trains to drive, though there is still room for improvement with plenty of nitpicks

    So to start, I'd like to mention that this is purely based on my own experiences, from the perspective of someone who's been on this line a few times in real life. And while I thought the scenery felt plausible enough, what really sold the experience was hearing the sounds of the M7A's and M3A's, and how familiar it felt.
    I'll go further into details with what I noticed, what they got right, and what they got wrong in the following prompts. I hope you've got some popcorn ready ;)

    [​IMG]
    The Route:
    The Harlem Line spans 53 miles/ 85 km (select services travel a total of 82 miles/132 km) between Grand Central Terminal, and Southeast, with a diesel-only branch up to Wassaic.
    In game, however, the route stretches as far as North White Plains station, a turnaround point/terminus for the local trains traveling on this line.
    While this is somewhat understandable, it is worth pointing out that we're not getting the full experience of this line, and is indeed disappointing to an extent.

    With what we do get however, much of what's there is...interesting.
    The scenery is recognizable, though it falls into a bit of an uncanny valley. Of course with every other route in TSW, most buildings aren't super accurate to their real-world counterpart, and are rather a generalization of what's there. What this also means is that there are some odd quirks and innacuracies in the scenery. I distinctly remember noticing how the Bronx Terminal Mall right next to Yankees 153rd is replaced by a huge warehouse. Or that Yankees Stadium itself is not present, despite it being within viewing distance. Some station canopies, specifically at Harlem 125th and Fordham Station, feel a bit too tall than they are irl. There's also several spots where the road work doesnt feel quite right (much of this route travels along with/crosses many highways).

    [​IMG]
    Furthermore, one major oddity of this route is Grand Central itself. A major issue here is that there is almost nothing on the platforms, they feel very bare. Where are the columns, PIS displays, and various other things like benches and trashcans? The lighting doesn't feel quite right either, whereas it interacts very weirdly with the trains, giving them a very metallic shine.
    Then of course, there is the missing main concourse. As a player, I don't find myself enjoying being at Grand Central...in fact, there is very little grand about it.

    [​IMG]
    Regarding the night lighting, this is indeed something I'm quite happy to see has received a fair amount of attention. Although Riesa - Dresden is still the undisputed king here, the night lighting around Harlem is possibly the best night lighting that DTG has managed to pull off. Station lighting and the surrounding scenery is lit up just fine, though some areas could use some more street lamps. I've noticed some buildings were not lit up at all, particularly those red brick high rises around Harlem (it seems to be that one particular asset.)

    [​IMG]
    The Services:
    Though the Harlem Line doesn't really feature many branches, there is a fair amount of service variety. Many of these services can range from 15 minutes to just past an hour, with plenty of things to do in between. Different local and express patterns are replicated with some services starting at depots, some going to Yankees 153rd St, some terminating at Crestwood Station, etc.
    When it comes to the timetable, the one on Harlem feels solid enough, though it's noticeable that there's other lines and services missing.

    [​IMG]
    The Locos:
    One of the best aspects about this pack (in my opinion), definitely has to do with the trains. Both the M7A and M3A shares some similarities with their LIRR counterpart, but it is immediately noticeable that they have had numerous improvements made. The modeling looks amazing and spot-on, with the minor differences all in the right places. I think it's really cool that there are glowing elements for certain emergency exit signs, lights reflecting off the side of the trains, and the dynamic PIS on the M7A is pretty cool to see!
    The sounds are something else that have seen a huge improvement. The horns sound loud and mean, and are vastly better than what was there on the LIRR. I particularly enjoy driving the M7A specifically because of how good it sounds, especially as the motors go through their phase change past 30 mph.
    It does feel a little bit weird how the motor sound cuts off quickly once you put the master controller to coast, I feel as though the sound should sustain for a bit longer.
    The physics of the trains feel reasonable and are responsive without feeling too overpowered.
    The one thing that's missing with these trains are perhaps announcements and louder track noises.

    Bugs and Issues:
    There isn't anything that I would consider game breaking, however there is a few oddities that I've noticed...
    - M7A (and possibly M3A too) motor sounds can only be heard within the first two cars/married pair. This seems especially prevalent on AI trains.
    - The M7A on board PIS can at times seem to appear and disappear after certain tasks being completed. The PIS is completely turned off on all AI trains.
    - Certain GCT to North White Plains local services erroneously display Croton-Harmon as the destination on the train and platform PIS, whereas it should just display North White Plains as the end point.
    - The M3A exit door that is directly next to the cab cannot be opened internally. The click spot seems to be only on the outside.

    - The lights/light cones on trains feel a bit too bright, and too wide. I feel like they should be a bit more narrow, comparable to the ones on Dresden.
    - When pulling up to a station with a short platform, all doors open despite some not reaching the platform. This issue could be alleviated by allowing the player to maneuver the external camera to where the door panels are located, and accessing them through there. However the camera is often moved back to the outside of the train, rendering this trick cumbersome. This used to be possible on the LIRR trains.
    - AI trains do not sound their horns on approach to a station, despite this being a widespread rule on the MNRR.
    - AI passenger numbers need to be increased by a bit more , though it shouldn't be a dramatic increase.
    - Grand Central platforms completely void of assets as mentioned in the scenery section above.

    [​IMG]
    The Verdict:
    After a few days of gameplay now, I think I'm confident in saying that the Harlem Line is a pretty solid route despite its flaws. It definitely feels miles better than the LIRR. I would rank this as being on par with Boston Sprinter for being the best North American commuter route, if not maybe it pulls ahead by a bit.

    Ultimately it's up to you to decide if the route is worth it, however I would definitely recommend it if you have a love for commuter routes with a good mix of services and great trains to drive! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  2. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I agreed with everything you said 100%. Now if they can just fix the track joint sound and increase the junction sound to how realistic it should sound like I think I would put this as number 1 for American Route and 2nd Place Boston Sprinter.

    I really do hope by next week Matt can get the audio team to fix the train track joint sound and increase the volume of the train track junction as well.
     
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  3. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    From what i see the route is made really detailed and its a fun experience. Also glad the managed to get the signalling & safety systems right. Im not questioning the good work of the team created this route. The few bugs are not game braking, but thats not an excuse to not adress them.

    I think its fair to get it on a 50% sale, since its only 50% of the route represented. Of course if they solve the bugs, else im waiting for a 70% sale.

    Rivet has also a problem with its luzern route lenght, but the line as s18 (s1) is technically enclosed and a brand new train with etcs was made.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
  4. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Thats going to be a while before they do it. And rarely they will do 50% and even more rarely 70% discount on sale, based from the past, and also because of it being a new route. Rarely new route are going to be on sale
     
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  5. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I swear at least 300 out of your last 337 posts are audio related. :cool::D
     
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  6. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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  7. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Nice! Will definitely give it a download, thanks for your work
     
  8. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Im patient. Dtg can get my money since i usually pay quality content at day 1 for full price. If im convinced the content is worth it, like tarandter rampe, no dev has to worry, day one for my cash.

    Harlem seems to me like a "lets safe time by selling a half line for a full price" package. So yea, who ever made this decision, has to live with the fact some people might not gonna buy now.
     
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  9. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Nicely summarized \o/

    If I could (hipotetically) forget about timetable issues (no-path): I am very happy with the purchase. It feels different and fresh enough. GTC is voidish but very atmospheric to me to be there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2022
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  10. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the M7A is slightly overpowered. It feels like a rocket ship at the moment, with acceleration that rivals some of the German EMUs (and I've been on M7As enough times to realize that they definitely don't accelerate that quickly), so I do think the acceleration curves should be toned down a bit. You can definitely feel the difference when doing a service since it seems like I arrive at almost every station more than 30 seconds early, and I'm not driving like a maniac either.

    I also think the night lighting is inconsistent. It looks great in the picture you showed, but there are some periods where it is crazy bright and it doesn't feel like night time. It definitely doesn't use the Dresden/Rampe lighting system, because you would never see scenes like this in those two routes. Notice how bright the train looks in the attached screenshot.
    20220318195913_1.jpg
    I also noticed that the AI M7 trains don't make any motor sounds when they decelerate which is a major bummer if you like to simulate virtual railfanning. It's very immersion breaking not hearing those EMU motor sounds.

    Despite the flaws (and the lack of prototypical platform digital information screens), this is still a very enjoyable route in my opinion. A lot of the issues that aren't related to the scenery can definitely be fixed with a patch or two, and I hope these changes come sooner rather than having to wait a year(s?) until the preserved collection team get around to it.
     
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  11. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    An excellent review. Yes, there are some flaws, but I feel totally immersed in the M3A and M7A cabs. When I get some TSW time lately, I am not even thinking of driving any other route at the moment.

    The route is just flat out fun to drive!
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The nightlighting is simply the standard tsw2 lighting but with more lights in streets. There are some areas particularly the northern end of the route where it's bright but in reality should be dark. It's a shame dtg did as little as possible with night lighting. Why can't there be a standard after the release of Riesa-Dresden or Thardnter Rampe when it comes to night lighting. It's ridiculous to be honest. DTG love to take the easy way out.

    The night lighting on this route is nothing really special to be honest
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why dtg can't do what modders like you do when it comes to sounds. These things are possible but dtg just choose not to do them
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
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  14. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Good read, thanks, I'll definitely consider buying it when it's on sale.
     
  15. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Good review, will grab it at sale time. Pretty sure people also asked for louder track noise when Bakerloo came out, but to my knowledge this was never improved.
     
  16. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    DTG didn't do the lighting on Riesa-Dresden.
     
  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Just because they didn't do it doesn't mean they can't improve night lighting. They can but have done little for the night lighting on this line
     
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  18. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Was anyone able to try out the sound mod for the M7 and M8? I haven't yet because of people saying that once they add it the original sound of the engine disappears.
     
  19. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I tried it for the M3, I think it's very good! Might be a bit too much on the rattle, but other than that, the sound levels are very good. And the traction motor sounds are still there. Havn't got around to try the M7 yet.
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Funny enough these aren't new sounds. These are sounds dtg created but didn't implement them to these trains when the route released. I don't get why dtg didn't do that. It makes it feel like they just rushed the development of the audio of the train
     
  21. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I think the LIRR Was the Best track noise and junction sound, they should have use that instead? What do you think?
     
  22. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I'm one who will wait for a sale.
    Remember Sherman wasn't out long before it was discounted.

    I know nothing about the authenticity of the route, but Grand Central has all the charm of a Sainsbury's underground carpark and those cardboard skyscrapers with holes for windows - just yuck.
    These are iconic views and deserve better.

    But on a positive note you can at least see out the drivers windows Rivet.
     
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  23. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    The Manhattan section is a big ugly, that's for sure. The modelling would be good, but some textures are really bad. With better textures, and some more clutter on the platforms at GCT, the Manhattan section could easily by turned much better.
     
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  24. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be best to try to put in a ticket and tell them. You might never know if you don't try. ;)
     
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  25. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone realize that you can't even hear the horn while inside the passenger cab when the train is in motion or when its stop? For some reason when i was inside the cab on the M7A I can't hear the horn not even the front from 2-4 cars? TrainSim-Matt Can you please look into this thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
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  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate the thoughtful review, but I will wait for a sale, which I think might come sooner rather than later. Although it seems the trains are well done, it's not enough for me. The route is missing some important landmarks and it just doesn't have that New York feel to it. For the city that never sleeps, Manhattan looks awfully dark and somnolent at night.
     
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  27. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I think that waiting for a sale would be a totally fair choice!

    The route could use some polish and some bug fixes, which I'm hopeful will come in the following weeks and months. Other N.A. routes like Boston Sprinter and (soon to be) Penninsula Corridor will have had some scenery changes and bug fixes post-launch, so I figured that the Harlem Line shouldn't be no exception either. The only question would be how long exactly would it take.

    Though, as-is, I think the Harlem Line already has grounds to be one of the best offerings for a N.A. route. It's got more things right than the LIRR did.
     
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  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    That may be true. But LIRR is an old route by gaming standards. Wouldn't you expect the game to have advanced somewhat by this time?
     
  29. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! It would not have been acceptable otherwise.
    Fortunately in many cases, I think the game has advanced in plenty of areas, but there is still room for improvement in other places.

    One of the most important things that DTG should consider is starting to put more resources toward taking care of a route post-release. Bug fixes do come, but they often take months to be released to the players, which isn't quite right.
    If the game was to start truly taking leaps and bounds and advance forward, then improvements to routes such as the LIRR and Metro North should come quicker than they do presently.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022
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  30. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    You do know Matt isn't your personal secretary, right? I ask because you have a habit of @'ing him whenever you'd like something done. There are established procedures for bug reports - perhaps they might be more effective?
     
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  31. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    He is the head of TSW 2 and it doesn’t hurt to ping him. Unless the company say it’s wrong. I only ping him to show him how important this is to the company.
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think more your agenda than the companies chap . I’d imagine Matt gets a significant amount of pings as it is trying to develop the game before he even entertains getting drawn in elsewhere. Maybe highlight to Nat or use the support tickets (if I recollect correct) you referenced to someone I believe the other day. ;)

    I dare say the more you ping, the more invisible you risk becoming on his list
     
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  33. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    How do I highlight to Nat? Also yeah I am going to start submitting ticket. ;)
     
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  34. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Did you guys realize that the M3 Have AC sound but the M3A For Metro North doesn’t have any? Did anyone notice that? I think the audio team need to look into this
     
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  35. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure if this will help you with the audio :cool:

    https://dovetailgames.com/vacancies/qa-lead-tester
     
  36. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  37. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure I still hear the AC sounds, it's the same constant humming that was in the LIRR M3.
     
  38. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I swear some of the player base spend hours looking for obscure reasons to moan. You drive the train from the cab not the passenger sections. Does it really matter?
     
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  39. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    To be fair redrev1917 I've noticed on Sherman hill that once the brakes release and you set off in camera 1 if you change to camera 8 and watch the train disappear, wait another 20 mins that you lose all sound of it. Pretty poor show. Equally when I then expect the game to instantly load all scenery immediately on returning to the cab I've been highly disappointed to see that the track has disappeared and the train is floating.
    I mean come on

    upload_2022-3-22_7-51-23.gif
     
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  40. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Did you ping Matt about it?
     
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  41. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    As well as not pinging the staff for every little thing, support tickets are not to be used to express opinions that the scenery isn’t detailed enough. It is for bugs and technical issues. It’s like the boy who cried wolf. If you ping and send support tickets for things they are not intended for you will quickly be ignored and when you do have a genuine reason to ping or ask for technical support you may well be ignored then too. Then all your sheep get eaten.
     
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  42. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I've made a concerted effort to ping everyone, raised 18 support tickets, messaged a few on LinkedIn, told Gary at the kebab shop and was just in the process of mentioning it on some of your YouTube videos mate ;)
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You do know that there are some players who do like to ride as a passenger in this game right?
     
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  44. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    How do you blow the horn when in a passenger seat though?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You don't. Your riding as a passenger if your sitting in the passenger seat of a ai train. You clearly can't drive the train if your riding it as a passenger. DTG though could probably program ai trains to blow their horn when approaching a station but that probably won't happen
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022
  46. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! I was commenting on this quote earlier - "Did anyone realize that you can't even hear the horn while inside the passenger cab when the train is in motion or when its stop?"
     
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  47. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    AI trains don't and never have used their horns/bells/whistles/Vuvuzelas as it's not a feature included currently. You can't hear it because it's not there
     
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  48. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Some locos from NTP do.
     
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  49. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Yes i am only sending support ticket, like you said for technical issue only.
     
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  50. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    yes the AC sound is there but not as loud as the current LIRR M3, where you can hear the ac vent blowing. Cause i did a comparison yesterday and the ac sound was a little louder than the M3A on this line.
     
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