Metro North Harlem Line: A Review

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by skyMutt, Mar 21, 2022.

  1. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    It kinda does, cause it gives the ambient of the train as a whole, the feeling of being on it. Why else do you think I ask? Some player want the whole experience while others like you said don't care.
     
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  2. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Really? I've never noticed and whilst NTP isnt one of my go to routes I have racked up more than few hours on this line.
     
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  3. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I have heard it on the Gronk. It’s really cool when it happens. Hang out on Penzance platform when the 08 is shunting the mail train.
     
  4. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    I have heard it only once while standing on a platform at Manchester Victoria. A departing Class 47 sounded its horn.
     
  5. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I have run it several times so far, and I really am liking it. The safety systems are well done and seem to work as advertised, which adds a lot to the play. I found that I tend to keep a finger poised over the 'q' key to react to either the ACES or ATC since you do not get a lot of time to acknowledge.
     
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  6. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic review! I'm a bit sad I am having to miss this route as it seems fairly good. But not only I was already 100% committed to Luzern, but I also feel like I have a lot of older DLCs I haven't played enough, mainly DCZ and the expansion pack Köln S-bahn, where I've only done ~20/30 services each, even less with the 313... and to be perfectly honest while I did not own the M3 DLC (so it would be a new train to me), I would have preferred something new, even slightly, for example the New Haven line with the M8 would have been more attractive to me personally. I also have a feeling either the M3 or the M7 will be included in the next release around NY so I won't be missing out on too much.

    A few points from your review I wanted to chat about, I completely agree with your criticism of the roads, IMO they are one of the biggest weak points of the TSW scenery, across all routes, they really remind me of the old Trainz games. While Harlem isn't good, from what I saw in the stream it is a lot better than previous attempts, mainly the old NEC, the interstate that parallels Cane Creek, and I'd say even the Boston area and the San Francisco suburbs in Peninsula Corridor. Although I feel like this game has a long way to go before being able to reproduce an urban environment, and I'm frankly amazed by what Peninsula Corridor pulled off so long ago, can't wait for the Pres crew update to release to get back into it.

    About GCT, I honestly never expected more than what we got, other "important" stations are not accessible either, like St. Pancras or Paddington, I appreciate why it can be frustrating, but no matter how much stuff DTG adds on top of it, at its core TSW is still a train driving game, and (I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion) going out of their way to make (for example) the GCT concourse would be "off topic" if that makes sense. I'd rather have it completely missing than having a badly made "representation" with 4 polygons.

    Something I noticed on the stream but is missing from your review is that the track looked really good in places, this is the first route where I could really see the sleepers being a 3d object, and it did give the route a really distinctive, and "real" feel...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's authentic. However, the absence of platform clutter is not.
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I believe that a Week One patch should be part of the basic rollout strategy, and planned for,
     
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  9. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I really keep enjoying this route and its well implemented safety systems.
     
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  10. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's almost eerie how empty it is. I'm aware that not every platform has pillars in the middle, but surely at least some garbage bins or something are there, no?
    [​IMG]

    On a positive note, the wetness effect on the platforms when it rains is lovely. And I love how the area under the canopy roofs stay dry!
    [​IMG]

    One weird thing I noticed at White Plains, however, is that when I stop at the track which has platforms on both sides, and open the doors only on one side, the passengers will still walk though the closed door on the other side and board the train anyway. Not a serious issue really, but quite funny.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Most platforms in gct do indeed have trash cans to hoplefully not make people dump their trash on the tracks. There is however instances of garbage ending up on the tracks regardless though
     
  12. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    This image of the platforms at GCT is a Royality Free image from Getty images it shows how open they are, though I can see trash cans and even vending machines in some of the images. The center platform columns are noticeable.
     

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  13. bdlaplaca

    bdlaplaca Member

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    Yea I don’t quite get the gripes about the terminal platforms. No one waits on the platforms, there aren’t any seats or signage (except small plaques on the columns) in real life. There are a smattering of trash cans (overflowing usually ;) ), but that’s it
     
  14. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that what i also find weird and funny yesterday when i was doing this scenario or journey as well. I open the right side but for some reason when i look on the left side of the cab people was just coming out through an invisible door, which was funny, so i basically end up open both door instead lol :D
     
  15. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Right thats why i was so surprise as to why there is no garbage can by the train, cause when in reality there was a couple more garbage bin, and on top of that i remember seeing a steel cage, which i believe its for recycling newspaper and bottle or something else. But what was so odds was the missing PIS, Advertisement board, the ceiling fan, and where is that glass panel stairway?
     
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  16. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Today I noticed that the brake hoses and the couplers between the M3A cars are not animated. They are completely static, so as the cars move independently of each other due to curves and track unevenness, the hoses float in the air. The couplers are less noticeable, but they also seem to just slide through each other instead of following the cars' movements like they should.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Funnily enough, after this I did a quck test on LIRR. The LIRR M3s have animated brake hoses and couplers, they stretch and move with the cars. Funny how one of the most broken routes and rolling stock from the old TSW have these parts animate properly, while in the newest TSW release they do not.
     
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  17. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Thats why i want to know from dtg if this franchise becomes a budget range. Advertised as highly detailed and leaving behind disappointed fans.

    More and more lazy shortcuts through the backdoor. All current devs with THE only exception of Train Sim Germany are on their best way to loose me as a customer.

    There is certain point i wont spend any time in tsw anymore, just not interessted with the current spirit and vision.

    At the bottom of the line: ill keep spending a ton of cash into digital content, but nothing with dtg & tsw..etc.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I thought all tsw2 locos was "Highly accurate and detailed recreations." I guess that isn't the case anymore
     
  19. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well the good news is that they animate correctly on the M7A, so this seems to be an issue with the M3A only.
     
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  20. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Trying submitting a ticket and see what can be done
     
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  21. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I did so as well, maybe it's an easy fix.

    Also, as for the M7A's disappearing traction motor sounds, I think I realized what is happening. Only one pair of cars will make sounds, and it will always be the pair of cars that are closest to the camera when the acceleration/decceleration begins.

    So if you are in the cab and you accelerate, you can hear the motors, but then if you do an outside "action shot" of the train driving by or simply switch to the rear, you can hear the rear half of the train being completely silent.

    However if you're stopped and you start accelerating with the camera already at the rear of the train, then the rear cars will produce motor sounds. If then you switch to cab view, them you will notice that the train is silent from the cab, as now only the rear two cars are making sounds.

    So always only the one or two cars make sounds that were the closest to the camera when the sound started playing. Quite interesting bug.
     
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  22. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Excellent observation, you've described the issue far better than I could have :D

    What's even weirder is that I have noticed that you can sort of "bring back" the sounds, assuming you had the camera at the rear of the train and jumped back to the cab. And this is done simply by having the train decelerate (doesn't matter by what amount), then reapplying power. And voila, the first pair of cars have sound again.

    This definitely ranks high up on the list of most unusual bugs I've ever seen lol
     
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  23. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    In this case it doesnt look like a bug to me, seems made on purpose to reduce performance problems on last gen consoles.

    Dtg on their way to the "everybody gets the same experience" just didnt do the work to make it any better for ps5 or pc.

    You made an interessting discovery, so thats my only explanation after the hundreds of post in this forum because the lirr sound problems, which ended up happening on a new release again.
     
  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    But the M7s sounded just fine on LIRR in TSW2020, and that also runs on consoles without any problems. So I doubt this is working as intended. Especially considering the M7s are like the only EMUs doing this, so pretty sure it's a bug with them.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with performance. The M7 in tsw2020 lirr ran fine. When lirr was ported over, that's when this issue started to pop up. But the M3 somehow wasn't affected and the M3A sounds fine. Although the traction motors are a bit too loud on the M3A. In reality the M3A traction motors aren't very loud.

    Frankly DTG should explain how that bug from the LIRR M7 managed to be moved to the M7A. I thought DTG had beta testers. Either they don't or they do but don't know how to do their job
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  26. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Interestingl, it doesn't seem to be exactly the same bug for the LIRR M7 and this M7A.

    For the LIRR M7, I believe it always was one end of the units making sound (either their western or eastern ends or something like that?). While for the M7A it seems to change, depending on where the camera is. Maybe they tried to fix the LIRR M7 and this was the result as a semi-fix?
     
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  27. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Interessting that since tsw 2 the sounds cause problems. I started with tsw 2 last summer after stopping ts in 2018. So i never played dlcs from the original tsw.
     
  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    A semi fix is not what I call a fix. You either fix it or don't. What I don't understand is how can the class 377, 387 and the M3A as an example can have their propulsion sounds go throughout every car as they do in reality but yet the
    M7A propulsion fades out and goes away completely when accelerating which doesn't happen in reality. It's extremely similar to the bug in the LIRR M7. Only difference is that you have basically reset the throttle to get the sound back but even then it'll still cut out. This happens on ai M7A trains as well regardless of camera position

    Does it have something to do with physics? Maybe the sound file got corrupted? It would be nice to know why this happened and if there will a fix. Considering that many players have complained about the similar audio issue on lirr, you would think dtg would not try to have a similar issue on the m7a.
     
  29. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Not only that but did you guys realize the M7 has track noise, basically you could hear it much clearer on the train going through track and junction and when switching tracks, than if the sound was in the background. I don't know how the team mess that up
     
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  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The track noise going through junctions is there but it's too quiet. It needs to be a bit louder
     
  31. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Like you said it is there, but not louder, and clear, it sound muff.
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I can’t help but think tsw2 is becoming “tsw -8th gen”.

    concerned.
     
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  33. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    So I tried to do the Train to the Game scenario from the third chapter of the journey mode, but I couldn't complete it.

    After driving the M7A to the Yankee's stadium and back to GCT Track 51, following every isntruction to disable the cab, I got stuck at removing the master key. No mazzer what I tried, I could't turn ot to off. I had to save the game and reload to be able to get it out and progress.
    [​IMG]

    Then the task was to go to an M3A that was waiting at one of the platforms and start it, but I got stuck again. Following the usual routine of setting it up, when I gave it throttle to get going, nothing happened.
    [​IMG]

    What is wrong with this scenario?
     
  34. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I completed that scenario, but from the scenarios list, not journeys.
     
  35. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Well-Known Member

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    I have completed the entire Journey without any issue,
     
  36. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well I will try it again then, hopefully it won't happen another time
     
  37. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    What was so strange about doing any of the siding scenarios or timetable, was the fact that when you exit the cab and go to another train that is at GCT that needs to be set up, you barely could see where you are going. I mean it pitches dark, I think I broke my leg jumping out of the train from that height lol:D:D:D, basically what I am trying to say is there was no option for our driver to have a flashlight in hand to see what object or obstacle is in your way.

    Basically, I have to jump off the train onto the track, and run but have to look both ways to make sure there wasn't any train coming because I run quickly across the sliding and onto the platform which it was odd that there was no small stairway at the end of the platform, for me to go up. It was a good thing that there was an option that said climb up, or else I would definitely be stuck on the track below and can't complete the task or the scenario.
    Here is the picture of what I am talking about, as soon as i turn of the headlight and on my way to the other train i can't see anything
    upload_2022-3-28_4-0-57.jpeg
    upload_2022-3-28_4-1-8.jpeg

    Here i am on my way crossing over to the other train that is at the platform waiting
    upload_2022-3-28_4-1-56.jpeg
    upload_2022-3-28_4-2-6.jpeg
    upload_2022-3-28_4-2-17.jpeg
    As you can see its pretty dark, I can't see where I am going

    I wonder if this is what all the Metro-North Driver have to do if they park their train at the balloon loop sliding? How are they able to know where they are going if they can't see anything in front of them? I am sure that they have to have a flashlight so that they can be visible and see where they are going.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
  38. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Umm, in fact there is a flashlight option in the game, just so you know. You can toggle it with the F key when on foot, I believe.
     
  39. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Really I didn’t know that, is there a video or picture that show this cause I don’t remember seeing this option thanks
     
  40. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I can take you a screenshot next time I do something in the dark, but it should be either the F or the L key, I believe. It only works when you are on foot though, not sitting in a seat. It doesn't shine far, but I think that's fair for being a handheld flashlight. Wandering around with it in the dark at the storage sidings at GCT is like playing the old Slender game, lol

    Edit: As promised, here are some screenshots taken in the dark near Track 51.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
  41. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of that Train to the Game scenario, I'd like to mention that I genuinely did not find it very engaging after a certain point.
    If memory serves correctly, the scenario was basically a back-and-forth short run between GCT and Yankees, and you were to do this twice in a row, making the scenario last close to 60 minutes long.
    It felt like it took much longer than expected, and aside from getting to drive two different trains, there's nothing in the scenario to really spice up the gameplay. In fact, this sort of scenario can be recreated in the normal timetable mode with very little difference.
    In my opinion, this is not the way to do scenarios. They should be interesting, have a story to it, and have gameplay that I cannot recreate anywhere else. It needs to live up to its 'scenario' moniker.

    Another point, much like was mentioned above, I found it unusual that you are essentially directed to cross multiple tracks at a major terminal while being in complete darkness. If this is what engineers and train crews do in real life, then color me shocked.
    It just felt weird and incredibly unsafe.
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They would have a flashlight in realty. The problem with the tsw2 flashlight that it is way too dim. Flashlights that metro-north employees use for example are much brighter and reflect farther.
     
  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't know about the US Rule Book but in the UK these days if you need to cross or access the active railway it would be necessary to obtain a line blockage from the signaller, I.e stop all train movements until you report clear.
     
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  44. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    The light function work with the 'L' key and if you are in the cab, turns on the cab light, and on the ground, the flashlight.
     
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  45. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The flashlight is f
     
  46. sinnere

    sinnere Active Member

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    Where do you place this file?
     
  47. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Just place it in Train Sim World 2\WindowsNoEditor\TS2Prototype\Content\DLC if you're on Steam.
     
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  48. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, but the 'l' key also turns it on if you are outside of the locomotive.
     
  49. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Most US railroads allow employees to cross yards and storage tracks without shutting down each track since yards have extremely slow movements when they have any at all, and they certainly aren't going to shut down 10 tracks to cross them all. I actually remember an NTSB report about a train cleaner on the NYC subway system who died in a yard after making contact with a 3rd rail contact shoe trying to squeeze between a parked train and a light pole and he wasn't found for a while because except for telling a supervisor when he finished cleaning a train and which one he'd be moving to next, MTA policies did not require him to relay his movements to anyone while in the yard. After this incident, the only policy change was to add a policy prohibiting going through narrow spaces between trains and an object and placing signs on the light poles warning people not to squeeze past. Some railroads even allow employees to cross main line tracks without shutting down the line if they are just crossing quickly, but they do have to notify that they are doing so. The only time I've seen a track actually have protection with trains prohibited from using it is when that track is being worked on or inspected on foot. Every railway has their own policies though so it really depends.
     
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  50. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Also, can anyone explain in-depth the ATC and ACSES system on this line? I can tell it works differently than the Amtrak and MBTA systems so I want to know how it's different. The biggest difference I have noticed is you don't have to acknowledge ATC alerts and can just brake to clear them, but how much do you have to brake? Sometimes 30% satisfies it, and sometimes it won't stop beeping until I push it to 60%. How long do you have to satisfy it? Can you recover from an e-brake before the train is stopped? Without a manual since DTG apparently gave up on those, it's hard to actually understand the full nuances of each safety system. Also does deadman's pedal work? Because I stood up and the train didn't stop. Finally, how do you tell the difference between alerter and ATC/ACSES warnings?
     
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