An Open Letter To Dtg

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mattty May, Apr 2, 2022.

  1. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Dear DTG,

    I’d like to start by saying I love TSW 2 and I really appreciate that the game exists on console. I discovered the game during the first COVID-19 lockdown and have (largely) enjoyed it ever since.

    But, DTG, what the heck is happening lately?

    Are you actively trying to destroy the game? Self-sabotage from within?

    You have always had a reputation of introducing lots of bugs and taking FOREVER to fix them, but since Rush Hour, things have taken a significant nose dive. As I see it, TSW 2 is currently racing towards the ocean with no effort to pull the nose up.

    Bug after bug is being introduced. Rush Hour routes are still badly messed up signalling wise or run poorly (even on the PS5) and some of the reasoning behind decisions is deeply deeply flawed.

    Take the Harlem line for instance. We were told the decision to make the route shorter was to focus on the detail. Yet, there are endless reports of snarled up trains, missing landmarks and a lot of areas where trains are clipping through scenery.

    Has the enthusiasm in the team gone completely? Are management so hell bent on release after release that they don’t care what shambles those releases are in?

    It is completely unacceptable for trains to be clipping through the scenery. It’s completely unacceptable that this wasn’t found before release. It is completely unacceptable that signalling systems are so flawed that the game is rendered unplayable or is so unrealistic, you might as well not have bothered in the first place. It is completely unacceptable that collectables cannot be collected, or the wrong number of collectables exist in a route (it’s just counting after all). It is completely unacceptable that the community finds literally dozens of issues within hours of a release or even on a live stream showing a route or train DLC for the very first time.

    Something is seriously wrong at DTG. I don’t know what it is, but the community is clearly getting very very fed up.

    Fed up, because we know DTG can do so much better. Routes like East Coastway and trains like the Class 465 are superb, whilst other routes like LIRR are (excusing the pun) an horrendous train wreck and have remained that way for ages.

    I really do think DTG has been taking its players for fools and have treated them very badly.

    Is this the reputation you want? Is this the product you want?

    The number of mistakes (human error) is atrocious putting it bluntly. No lessons are being learned and the same issues are being repeated time and time again. I’m getting fed up of you peeing on my leg and telling me it is raining.

    The question is, what is DTG going to do about it? I fear very little given the amount of feedback the community is providing to you. Valuable feedback that is either being ignored, or is so deeply buried under all the issues you are having to cope with that you can’t realistically handle it.

    For every issue you do fix, you introduce several others. It would be comedy gold if not so damn annoying and insulting.

    I’d like to conclude that I really do value the game. If I didn’t, I’d simply walk away, never to play again. I just hope DTG realises it cannot go on the way it is going. All your reassuring words have so far been meaningless.

    Please, please get your act together.

    Kind regards,
    - Mat_Jam_Ca
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2022
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  2. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think nobody expects all DLCs to be released completely super polished and indestructible. Players always find ways to mess something up.

    That being said we are uncovering problems that would've been caught had someone simply travelled the route in both directions. That is inexcusable. If the tunnel clips all the way into my cab, that is a serious miss on QA. Also I am highly doubtful a sufficient amount of safety systems are used during testing - you can see a lot more problems being found by people using safety systems than those running without them as things break in a really interesting fashion with them on.

    It is definitely not a simple task creating routes and locos from the ground up (which... doesn't happen with locos very often these days), but these are rookie mistakes. Don't put a tree so close to the track that it clips the train. If you do, QA needs to write that down, tell you and you need to change it. It shouldn't be me after paying 30 euros finding that out.
     
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  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Is it the new CEO?
    Is it Matt’s move from SP to EP?
    Has a key member of staff who was keeping it all together left?
    Is it all down to Covid in India?
    I suppose we’ll never know the reason but I think we can all see that there has been a downward shift in competence somewhere in the company. The final product is suffering.

    I hope Nat is passing all of this on to the right people. The game’s biggest fans are getting mightily fed up with the poor quality and endless stream of mini crisis events. It’s time for me to take a break from posting on the forum for a while. I don’t really have the words to explain how I feel any more.
     
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  4. frank1116

    frank1116 Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree and would sign this letter when it is adressed to a responsible person. I am not interested in another "we understand your frustration"-comment from one of these ..employees, who might read this post. However, a serious escalation will not work at a high yield. So its a question of charakter. #peoplelovetrainsanddeserveabetterproduct
     
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  5. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree on this whole thread. Think it's fair to say that we all put a lot of time into playing tsw and we wouldn't if it wouldn't be not enjoyable at times. But the direction TSW has taken since rush hour is getting more and more frustrating. When bugs are that bad that you cannot reach your destination (wich in a train SIM it's one if the key point you know) it's more than unacceptable, especially if those bugs are well known and communicated but after more than 6 months still not fixed. On the one Hand I feel like DTG is doing good at getting better in terms of creating routes and train models, on the other it's unbelievable to see them doing the same errors over and over again. QA is beeing build up ? I can't see where this had happen. The result of this is that i really have to think twice before purchasing any DLC because the chance to get something frustrating is to high atm. This shouldn't be the case, we the customer should be hooked up from the first sec. and are absolutely right in wanting a good product that we can enjoy full on.
     
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  6. phillip.good

    phillip.good Well-Known Member

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    Amen to all of this.

    I don’t think I’ve passed on a single piece of DLC and I truly love this game. It got me through a pandemic when my NHS job had me howling in frustration and anxiety, it made me pick up a gaming controller for the first time in 10 years and it took. and still takes, me to places I will never physically be able to visit in my life BUT I can feel my interest starting to wane.

    Like others, I don’t want another ‘mea culpa’ I just want the game to be playable when I feel down and.want to pick up a controller for some relaxation.
     
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  7. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    DTG is currently at its corpo stage. Lerning the business is hard. After this stage there is a hope. BR
     
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  8. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly how I feel. There's only so many times you can bang your head off a brick wall. And that's what it feels like a brick wall except my head's gone through the wall into the void beyond.
    This is not a new thing either, this has gone on since inception and has now become a bind, any pleasure to be gained is countered by the endless frustration encountered. I mean how can you honestly start a service without knowing that you will finish said service.
    And all this is acceptable according to DTG and they understand our frustration. Could I politely point out DTG you don't have a ****** clue about our frustration or things would actually get resolved.
    Whilst you may think we were born yesterday DTG, some of us have been up all night.

    Fool me once DTG, shame on me,
    Fool me twice DTG, shame on...oh wait ... me again...
     
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  9. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this thread. I have stopped playing it as I feel iv been conned out of money. For example I bought the Rush hour ticket but nearly a year on there is still no rush hour passengers numbers on the London Commuter as well as some bugs still active from release, for example the alarm going off in cab with no sound.

    I haven't bought a DLC since rush hour and won't play or buy any more until I see DTG sort themselves out and fix their product. It's unacceptable and it will be the cause of their demise if they don't sort it out. Releasing buggy content EVERY SINGLE TIME is embarrassing. How can this stuff not be picked up in QA? What is going on? Sort yourselves out!
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I'm waiting for the usual "We understand your frustration" nonsense from Nat or JD.

    I really do wish this game and DTG could get the same backlash Motorsport Games got with Nascar 21 or how EA do so it can get through their CEO's thick skull that players are tired of this company business practices when they clearly rush out dlc. Their QA and Beta team need a complete overhaul because it's clear they don't know how to do their job.

    Something as minute as the AI M7A trains not having passenger lights should've been obiovous and been fixed before release, yet that is issue is found during the release version of the route during a stream. That's ridiculous. Does the beta team and QA not have eyes or something.

    Certainly if Matt as executive producer plays these route way before release and preview streams, surely he would notice some of these clear bugs and tell the team and make them fix that before release. DTG just wants to get money asap regardless of quality. The Executives don't seem to give a **** about customer satisfaction
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
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  11. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I, unfortunately, have to agree with what has been posted here. TSW2 is becoming a giant mess. Release after release having bugs, unplayable scenarios/timetables or updates breaking things or wiping progress out.

    I have found myself playing less and less of TSW2 now since all these issues and have been playing TS22 more thanks to its wide range of routes and 3rd party content (there are bugs in TS22 also that have never been fixed by DTG).

    Whilst I enjoy the graphics TSW2 has to offer and that I can play it on my PS4/PS5, there are just too many bugs to make it enjoyable.
    I doubt I even play TSW2 for an hour a week now when it used to be my second most played game (GTA Online being my most played).
    It turns out that I have more play time on TS22 this last year than I do on TSW2.
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Somebody needs to confront upper management with the adage "penny-wise but pound-foolish." DTG's current practice of scrimping on vital areas like QA and development time bids fair to kill the product, if not the whole company. And, no, they should not get complacent simply because profits were well up last FY; this is short-term thinking of the sort which can be found carved on the gravestones of many defunct companies.

    If you think that you are increasing net profitability in a more-than-two-quarters timeframe by outsourcing your QA to Bangladeshi sweatshops, you're doing it wrong.
     
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  14. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    DTG might still have one more shot to save face and at this point it's a long shot at best.It's there SPIRIT of STEAM project the introduction of steam locomotives into TSW2 a highly requested feature.But if this goes bad it maybe the straw that broke the camels back,There only so many times you can say well maybe next time it will be better before you may have to cut your losses and move on.

    Honestly i'm sure the spirit of steam won't be any better done then anything else has been up to now,because dtg has given us no reason to believe there changing for the better.We the costumers will ultimately have to decide what we will eventually do.Leave or Stay...It's up to each one of us to decide what and when to where to go next...If this games issues become to much to take....
     
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  15. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with this whole thing as well. I been feeling something has be going on at DTG and ever since Rush Hour came out I been having a hard time trying to enjoy the game. I barely buy anything now. The fact the same bugs keep happening is ridiculous at this point. Is there even a point of a having QA? Why are these issues taking so long to fix. Rush Hour came out last summer and this summer isn't even far away from when Rush Hour released. All these issues should have been a learning curve for DTG but they keep making the same mistakes which should not be happening. I never experience these things with other gaming companies. Starting to think either they can't handle all these platforms or there's to many DLCS for them to fix!

    I do feel like feedbacks get ignored and there's going to be a time where players are going to stop writing them since the information doesn't get put into to use. I love this game but the game has been feeling like it's been in self destruct mode for months. I hope DTG gets it together soon.
     
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  16. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    One other thing i almost forgot to mention this problem hurts console gamers abit harder then PC players(who have other train sim game options).While Xbox&Playstation owners don't have any other train sim options at this time,I think dtg knows this and figures it's them or nothing for train fans.So releasing broken product doesn't bother them as much because they know 2/3rd of there costumers have know where else to go.
     
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  17. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Well, if the issues for Rush Hour DLCs have not been fixed since 9 months its obvious DTG is not working on fixing it. Even if they would delege one single guy to work on a fix for that it would already be done. I own TSW2 since January this year and since I bought it, there was 4 or 5 DLCs released. In just 3 months! So it's obvious their main goal is a massive DLCs production, not the quality nor fixing things messed up in other DLCs. I think their backlog of major issues to be fixed is already overwheling them. Also, judging by the simpliest issues that are being spotted by players on DLC's release day or even on the live broadcast I think they do not hire manual testers, it's not possible that such obvious issues would pass without notice when a living, seeing person would play particular scenario/service.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
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  18. Thunderer

    Thunderer Well-Known Member

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    The Rush Hour passenger numbers is annoying, you can be at a rural station and suddenly it's like a zombie horde of them on the platform, so many that you can't get through on foot.

    Why can't DTG just give us something simple like a passenger density slider.
     
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  19. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly have to agree with the sentiment on this thread . It does seem as if DTG know the price of everything and the value of nothing .

    I can’t make out if it’s money grabbing or a lack of respect of its customers (or possibly both) that has caused the current situation. I would like to see the sales figures of DLC since Rush Hour , surely they must be getting significantly less each time . Every single release has problems , not just little ones that get fixed with a patch a few days after release , but big ones that seem destined to stay that way .
    As we have all said on here ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! Yet still long time issues like the PS5 limit and data transfer to PS5 seems so far away on the back burner that they are paying rent in a fridge , not to mention how many scenarios are still unable to be finished and let’s not mention trying to get a train into Dresden!

    A lot of people on here play TSW to relax but it’s really hard to relax when after playing for a while you are not sure if the game will crash or you get stuck on a red light .
    I have a chronic illness and in the past few years my quality of life has changed . I hardly ever go out . I was in a band but I am no longer able to do that and it breaks my heart to be frank .
    TSW should be my time to relax , I’m not even bothered about sounds not being correct or some of the other issues that some of our friends on here . All I want is the game to work without breaking . I want to buy a DLC with the confidence that it works or if not , will be fixed asap . Sorry DTG but I feel like you have no respect for us and reading this thread it seems that an awful lot of us have lost our trust in you.
    Please try and win it back
     
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  20. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    I. Agree. With. Every. Single. Word. :cool:
     
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  21. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

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    Errors can never be completely ruled out and nobody asks for that. They are fixed promptly and that's good.

    But how can it be that the same mistakes are made over and over again? Would there even be a need for an army of QA if you could just learn from mistakes? Then such errors would be individual errors instead of serial errors and the elimination would be quick and easy.

    And how can it be that updates and patches add new bugs that even cause damage? Is that: operation successful, patient dead? Oops....

    Some like collecting the collectibles very much. All of us here are collectors because bugs are the new collectibles. In each new DLC you can now collect errors, as you already knew from previous DLC. Take it as a feature.

    But serial errors also have their good side. You know in advance where they will appear. And that's exactly where you start with the development, eliminate that and you've already saved yourself QA. Is not that great? But you can always install the same known error, use and pay for an unsuitable QA and push the update team to the limit. Maybe they're hoping that there will be fewer first-time buyers, giving them more time to fix? Smart.

    I don't know exactly what features Simugraph covers. As far as I know, the entire train technology such as the engine, brakes and physics. Obviously he doesn't master the track technique. It might be a good idea, if feasible, to integrate this into Simugraph or develop a similar module for it. This would then exclude false signals or incorrectly stopped AI trains. The system checks the consistency itself and would otherwise report an error. Safety systems would also be implemented error-free. In the long run it is certainly more economical to do this in a similar way to Simugraph than to do it manually and hope that no errors have crept in and that patching will be more or less laborious. And it would also save a useless QA here, which overlooks it anyway. That would be a sensible investment in the future.

    In addition, you would finally get consistent timetables, PIS directly linked to them and - it would be THE interface for a possible Ebula.

    This would free up capacity to take care of light and sound, etc. You just have to start in the right places. I don't see that here. It's not about QA. It's about eradicating known bugs. And since they are known, it cannot be impossible. No QA can guarantee that. Otherwise it remains a cycle that only wastes valuable resources.

    You can also try to get more customers through new DLC as well as lose old and disappointed customers. So the risk variant. If that ain't a milkmaid bill.

    Quality is the future - not steam. As much as I'm looking forward to it, I'm afraid it's really going downhill.
     
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  22. morph147

    morph147 Active Member

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    Agreed. Blows my mind some of the bugs I have encountered with the game on PS4 that makes me wonder how much testing actually does happen.
     
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  23. sergio volodstok

    sergio volodstok Active Member

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    I gave up hope on Rushed Hour a long time ago. :(:mad:
     
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  24. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Heck just look at timetable does anyone believe for a second dtg test every time table run.Heck i'm not sure they even test all scenarios.
     
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  25. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    What gets me is the repetition. Right after Matt said he talked to the team about stops too close to red signals, he got caught by one himself on the Sherman Hill stream. And now it's catastrophic errors--lost liveries from a CC update, then lost medals from a TVL update before (AFAIK) the liveries situation was even resolved. It seems like these errors are being treated as aberrations and minimal if any actual changes are being made in the hopes that talking and maybe finger-wagging will still somehow lead to a different result. I'm hopeful that DTG's silence about the TVL issue is because they're busy finally kicking the tails that need to be kicked.

    Matt has said that because it's obviously impossible to manually run every single service, they are all tested by AI. The problem, he acknowledged, is that the AI drives perfectly, so humans will run into problems that the AI misses. Hopefully at some point some padding will be built into the AI testing behavior to more closely emulate us feeble meat players.
     
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  26. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    We won't have a perfect solution until another competitor comes about! We need another train sim maker that can make a simulator near perfect. I been quiet here and just watching from the sidelines but I'm also tired of hearing the same bullcrap excuse they give when we point out issues. All the talk about delaying routes to make sure its perfect and then it drops only to have tons of issues is ridiculous. Routes well over a year old still have issues and new routes gets worse and worse. I can't wait to see how bad horseshoe curve will be. DTG needs to step it up before someone else comes and take it all away being better and more consistent.
     
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  27. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I remember Matt’s whole monologue about how stop markers had to be placed further back for American freight and how he had to instruct the team to lose the bad habit of placing stop markers right in front of signals. I also remember how none of that actually happened and almost all stop markers are still 3 feet in front of a signal.
     
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  28. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. Nothing to add but : Things need to change!
     
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  29. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    It might be that they already know that adding some changes, like track technique, to Simugraph could solve some of the major issues that we are facing now. The problem is that it might be to complex to do that for a Simugraph at it's current form. Maybe they already evaluate that and come to the point were it would require to re-design it from the scratch. That would need much of their resources to be involved and could take one-two years to achieve. Meanwhile, they need to earn money and grow as a company. Hence they keep producing DLCs in the way we get them now and struggling with resolving all the same issues route by route, while the Simugraph might be planned to be re-designed, but for next release of the game: TSW 3, if it ever will be developed.
     
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  30. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Sad thing is, they don't even give a LOVE to read all this
     
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  31. DXR8002

    DXR8002 Well-Known Member

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    I also agree. And the thing that pisses me off is that because this is a niche genre overlooked by gaming media, DTG can get away with it. The incompetence they show with every release far outweighs the recent issues of say Cyberpunk or Battlefield, at least those games were playable. Someone needs to contact someone at IGN or somewhere and explain this whole debacle to give it some limelight, maybe bad PR will give DTG a kick in the ass instead of ignoring their long standing paying customers.
     
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  32. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with the general sentiment on this thread. It would be pointless to list all the issues that lead to the general dissatisfaction with the current state of play. They are all very well known and documented in the forums.
    The response of the company is to offer a succession of streams which have become nothing more than exercises in PR. And not very convincing PR at that.

    I keep expecting the usual apologists to defend the company as they inevitably do, but we've yet to hear from them. There's a lesson there, I think.

    Suffice it to say that I stopped buying new content several months ago, I don't play nearly as much as I used to and my enthusiasm has waned considerably.
    I have little confidence in future releases. I hope SOS will be a redeeming event but its quality is uncertain based on recent releases and the seemingly insoluble problems that currently beset the game. Whatever happened to the promise of Sand Patch Grade, NTP and TVL?

    I still want the game to succeed, but I wonder whose hand is on the tiller when it seems that the ship is adrift at sea. ( Or should I say the train is on the wrong track.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Oh don't worry, they do read the threads but would you like to hear the same "we understand your frustration" statements? In fairness there is nothing the community managers can do. It's up to the executives to make the changes. The community managers are basically the messengers of the community to the higher ups. Do the executives care? Well from how recent content has released, they don't seem too. As long as people just keep buying, that's all they will care about.

    I could get Harlem line if I wanted too since I would only be spending $1.99 but with the bugs, it wouldn't make sense for me. Perhaps I should since I'd easily make the money back but I'll wait for a patch. If I did that would be the last dlc I would purchase until dtg get their act together. I haven't purchased many TSW2 dlc anyways. I thought when Thardnter Rampe released the quality of the product would be better. Unfortunately even that route for last gen users crashes and with effectively lies about Harlem, I don't see the point to keep investing in this company. I don't want TSW to end or DTG to go bankrupt or fail. I want to see them succeed because they have potential but it's clear their business practices have got to change.

    I've invested more into Microsoft Flight simulator recently and have played that more recently than tsw2 frankly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  34. Fs625Ikes

    Fs625Ikes New Member

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    I don't write often on the forum but almost daily I come here for seeing what is happening.
    I fully agree with this thread.
    I love this game too and unfortunately I have to full agree with everything you say. The game is getting worst and I really really hope something would change, or like many others I will lose any interest soon.
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    This right here is 100% true and god do I hate that. Companies like Motorsport Games, EA, even ironically Polyphony with the absolute debacle of GT7 get so much backlash when they release a bad product that it forces the executives to come clean and make changes.

    Look what happened to Star Wars Battlefront 2 for example. That game got dumped into the grave because of terrible business practices by EA effectively making players have to grind for days to potentially unlock a character or buy micro transactions to the point that EA had to come clean and overhaul the game effectively and getting rid of micro transactions for that game and some future games like Need For Speed Heat along with Star Wars Squadrons. Star Wars Battlefront 2 after all the backlash and bad press became a better game because of that.

    Polyphony Digital lied to reviewers by hiding the fact that GT7 had micro-transactions. They made an update which reduced number of credits (money) you can earn in a race to buy new cars so players would either have to buy micro-transactions or grind even longer to get enough credits to buy the car they wanted. That coupled with the fact that you need an internet connection to play single player (which ironically Sony mocked Microsoft for doing that when the Xbox One launched) and an update which prevented players from playing the game led to GT7 being on the top 100 worst user reviewed games ever. GT7 has a worse user review score than Battlefield 2042. That is an embarrassment and the bad press forced the CEO to make a statement and the company to rectify the mistakes they made.

    So if DTG were to get bad press from the likes of IGN or bigger content devs and not the crap from the "DTG Ambassadors" acting like everything is good and saying positive stuff just so they can continue to get free copies of DLC, then that would make DTG make the changes in their business practices and force the executives to explain why things are the way they are and not leave it to the community managers to explain things. The executives should be the ones doing the explaining.

    A stream with their CEO Paul Jackson being grilled and explaining why things are the way they are would be gold.
     
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Simrail can finally be that competitor to tsw2 especially since it is planned to release on consoles as well
     
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  37. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    This is a bit of a stretch. Cyberpunk was an utterly bug-ridden disaster, especially the console versions, to the point where sellers offered refunds and Sony even delisted it from the PS store. Most egregiously, CD Projekt Red specifically withheld the console version from reviewers in advance. TSW2 has significant issues, but also a huge amount of perfectly playable content.

    The common thing between the Gran Turismo, Star Wars Battlefront, and Cyberpunk above (and a host of other possible examples not mentioned) isn't just the amount of press, but the outrageous behavior of the developers/publishers toward their customers. Holding back unplayable console versions, delaying microtransactions until after reviews are out, etc. Contrast with DTG always hosting live streams of new DLCs with customer participation, for example.

    There's a big difference between ineptitude and actual malice. DTG doesn't behave like they actually want to screw their customers over; if anything, I get the feeling that management is too trusting of promises from below that lessons have been learned. Maybe it's time to stop speaking softly and start using the big stick.
     
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  38. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Still, on the last sale when I was looking for another UK route to buy I did ask TSW community on this forum for advise which DLC is less bugged, NOT which is most interesting, which pretty much sums up the current condition of TSW DLCs.

    But you know what an executive will understand from what I just said above? That I'm still interested in buying their stuff, despite poor quality of the latest content they're delivering, so what's the problem.
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing, a company can hold as many livestreams as they want. That doesn't automatically make them good. The verdict comes when the final product is released and we have seen over and over again that recent dlc's have been riddled with issues which is frustrating to some customers. Bizarrely there are issues with dlc's shown during a pre release stream when they are effectively in the released shipping build of the route. Sure DTG may not fully behave like EA, but when the same issues keep popping up again and again, it does raise eyebrows. A company can't say we want to learn and not repeat them when the same issues happen again and again.

    Also games like cyberpunk and star wars battlefront 2 have been improved way after they released. Contrast that to tsw2 in which quality of dlc's are inconsistent, riddled with clear as day issues, and updates break another part of the game or just bring up more issues. It is the INCOMPETENCE of DTG executives that allow this nonsense to happen continuously. Why do you think players are getting tired of this crap?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  40. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Here's an idea to see how much they listen to the community.

    What's been the most requested route by the community in the past 3 years?
    If its been made by now, that'll prove they listen and value feedback/input
     
  41. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Matt is doing a wonderful job.

    He will build back this product to a better level.

    Nat is a perfectly adequate community manager and will continue to log in and execute her job.

    This game will be reset and be ready for tsw3.

    Keep the faith
     
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  42. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    Well don’t know if you are one of the DTG supporters who think DTG can do no wrong or what “smh” actually means in your post.

    Don’t believe anybody is showing lack of respect for any of the developers but there is something seriously wrong at DTG and I would suggest the issue lies more with the Management. Take the PlayStation 5 download limit as an example. Sony supplied information about this before the console was ever released. Mat admitted to this in one of the streams. What did DTG do with the information about the PS5 console absolutely nothing. Not until gamers started to report issues did DTG actually read the information they had been supplied with. If they had done what they should have done that issue might have been solved by now.

    The fact remains that despite constant apologies, this won’t happen again statements and we understand your frustrations nothing appears to improve and with each release the situation gets worse. I do not blame the Developers but I do blame Management for not improving testing before release and leaving us mugs to pay out our hard earned cash on something that simply does not work. We end up being the testers. I for one don’t expect every timetabled service to be tested but surely training modules and scenarios should be and would expect them to work 100%. Of course a good number of services should be tested but even this doesn’t appear to happen given the large number of issues on London Commuter.

    Even what appear to be simple issues such as wrong platform marker points or the fact the game won’t remember your settings takes months and months to be resolved.

    Then you make a pointless and what appears to be a snide remark about PlayStation users whilst in fact they are probably DTG’s largest customer.

    I agree 100% with the original posters letter and now is the time for DTG Management to actually do something rather than continue to apologise and telling us they understand our frustrations.
     
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  43. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Give a little? Are you joking? I bought this game because of Rush Hour back in august. It's April now and the Rush Hour routes are still not fixed. You are right you are on the Playstation forum. We expect games that are not broken. If games are broken we scream and throw tantrums until developers come front, acknowledge the issues and fix them. Developers that want to serve a screaming and tantrum throwing audience know what they can expect. Until now DTG only acknowledged the issues, they didn't fix them.

    Sure devs deserve respect but paying customers do too. This is not some community that is building a game together. This is a business. Clearly DTG doesn't know how to release a game on which they can build DLC as a business model. They can't meet deadlines and have to release the latest most stable build they can find and hope they can free up some time to fix that route sometime in the future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  44. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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  45. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

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    https://steamcharts.com/app/1282590#3m

    By looking at some Steam stats, actually the game is in a slight upward trend when it comes to player count... So it seems people play and buy stuff regardless. I wonder what's the situation with PS. If it's similar, I expect that nothing will change as their top priority is revenue (for that, I cannot blame them). A competitor would definitely help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  46. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m 1300 hrs in, spend a lot of time here and I am personally disappointed with the direction of quality.

    I have moved swiftly from buying every dlc regardless to not buying one of the last 3-4. I’m disillusioned by the release quality inconsistency, amazing features released and then omitted thereafter as if we’d forget.

    The constant apology streams, the we know streams. I looked the other day at the companies recruitment pages and it’s no wonder they cant hire (or least appear to).

    A 50 yr high of jobs 1.3m, a less than 4m active candidates in a 32m workforce and DTG have these antiquated adverts that can’t even disclose salary. Who will apply? Is there an EDI issue, a gender pay gap issue or does the company have that little transparency in pay structure it’s all hush hush.

    The adverts start with the role then have loads about equality and diversity, that’s culture, not the role. They advertise fruit bowls (seriously, a benefit, come on? ) and free parking in adverts that stipulate they’re remote roles. I’ve spent more than ten years in talent attraction and this is not attractive.

    If the company is not able to attract then the exec team should put more pressure on talent attraction to update their game. Passive advertising is failed advertising today. Does the company have talent sourcing or is that seen as an unfulfillable cost, do they use agency or think that the cost of agency saving is less than the damage the open positions are creating to their product.

    FFC4CDAD-5D66-4237-AB08-074E05DA2AD9.jpeg

    When you look at the advert you’ve got 4 paragraphs before DTG have listed their wants. That market went long ago and whoever writes this needs to recognise a candidate chooses you before you choose them. This is really bad advert copywriting and a list of wants is about as disengaging as they come.

    Anyone get excited and want to apply reading this? Candidates need to be engaged by what they will get, what they will learn, what their outcomes will be first, not presented with a copy and pasted Job description. An advert is to entice, a JD to inform. They are not one and the same. This advert is like them advertising a route using a manual.

    DBACCE78-6E50-4306-A0F5-539103DF4285.jpeg

    Then we get this, no amounts anywhere. Do you buy a car, a house, anything without knowing basic information straight off the bat? I’m not in the company to understand how successful their recruitment is but this is amateur at best. I saw the talent attraction role in the last 6 months and as much as I love the product I was instantly put off by a lack of transparency. As someone with many years in the field it’s infuriating to see that companies will still attract high performing individuals when they cannot see a salary. Is that bad that?

    TrainSim-Matt DTG Protagonist I wouldn’t normally openly tag you for something like this an do so at the risk of being flamed but if there is any intelligence in this that helps you then I’d urge you to start screw twisting if recruitment is problematic.

    Social talent in Ireland are an excellent training provider for internal recruiters if that helps.
    https://www.socialtalent.com/
    I believe Github has a lot of devs floating on it too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  47. TheCadManFan

    TheCadManFan Well-Known Member

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    Part of the blame has to lie with those players who complain about each route, yet keep returning to the well. Open letters won’t make a damn bit of difference. The only way you can make a difference is with your wallet. If all the people complaining stopped buying the routes on release, you would see a change in quality then. What incentive does DTG have in fixing routes otherwise? They have already sold you the route, their main objective is now complete. Fixing it, well now that’s optional.

    I do enjoy TSW/TSW2, but all of the bugs in the game(s), are why I have drifted in and out of them. Often, months have passed, before I have returned.
     
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  48. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

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    Matt is doing a wonderful job.

    He will build back this product to a better level.

    Nat is a perfectly adequate community manager and will continue to log in and execute her job.

    This game will be reset and be ready for tsw3.
    Keep the faith

    As far as I'm concerned, Matt's had enough time and experience to adjust the team to his way of working. Why hasn't he seen these updates and signed them off, he keeps saying I drive this route before you all have seen it. Really? And you STILL miss the bugs?
    Nats a lovely person, but she is too kind to be pushing for answers, perhaps she could re-employ Sam to ensure she's assertive when she's questioning Matt.
    Sam is pretty good, he doesn't tolerate many excuses and he brings a certain flair and imagination to the company.
    Can't comment on Jamie, don't really watch much when he's on, nothing wrong with him its just I'm not interested in his streams.
    JD is Captain Wikipedia, he brings loads of information about the dlc but again isn't assertive enough, its more a chat then interrogation.
     
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  49. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's be clear. None of this criticism is aimed at the community managers. They don't make or fix content. They don't make policy or management decisions. They are the point of contact for players and it might appear sometimes that they are the target of the complaints. They're not. We can hope that they will convey our frustrations and unhappiness with the game to those who do make executive decisions. So let's not get into personality analysis again. There's too much of that on the forums. Stick to the point(s).
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  50. Luvvy Duvvy

    Luvvy Duvvy Member

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    This is an interesting thread. It has the shape of "Another Bash DTG" thread. But it can't be, because almost all of the people doing the "bashing" here are the same people that in the past were the strongest advocates of DTG, and would have complained bitterly if they saw "Another Bash DTG" thread. Hmmm - maybe they've all reached their own breaking points. That's come as a bit of a surprise.

    How could that possibly have happened? Where did it all go wrong? How can the trust and faith (and heartfelt defence) that everyone here put into DTG over the last few years have evaporated? This is a question for DTG (they might like to take note of the change in the weather).

    This is not meant to be a criticism of anyone posting in this thread.

    Most people break much much earlier (within five minutes of playing TSW), and never ever buy another DTG product. And the DTG guys are presumably okay with that - it is their business model after all. Why make a manual? Why make sensible introductions and core content that is proven in testing to work? There is no need to do these things, because the money comes rolling in anyway, from a reliable "dedicated army of fans" that accept whatever they are given. And when something new comes out, it's a case of - "Oh look - it's shiny - must buy it now!".

    However we have arrived at this situation where the core users are now saying that they have had enough, I would like to say (to myself): "Congratulations. We all now have the Train Sim World that we deserve." The question now is - if you are unhappy about the current and likely future situation, what are you going to do about it?

    I know what I am going to do. I am going to continue to buy almost every single DLC that DTG produces. But with the following caveats - the DLCs have to include a new train because I am never buying any rehashed timetables or skins, because that would only encourage DTG to try and sell more of them. And I won't buy anything to do with fish - unless it is an engineering wagon pack with a Class 73 on the front - in Dutch livery.

    I know the DLCs will not be tested in QA and will be fundamentally broken and not fit for purpose, and I fully accept that, and I accept that there isn't anyone with enough clout in DTG to do anything to fix the production process so that things work. But please take my money anyway, and buy yourselves a nice coffee each. Some of the content will probably work a bit some of the time, and everything looks good in UE4 - even the wheelie bins, so it's all fine.
     
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