An Open Letter To Dtg

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mattty May, Apr 2, 2022.

  1. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    1,917
    If any game maker were to show up tomorrow and say they have a new train sim game guaranteed to be 5% better done then any of dtg current offering i'm guessing there more then a few here that dump tsw2 on the spot and at least give it a try because at this point we have nothing to lose.We already lose everytime we believe the next dtg dlc might be better and as always it's not.

    I myself which mostly plays on xbox one have been considering a slightly different train game but it only partly involves trains so it still a possibility i'm considering but it not really a replacement for tsw2 yet. But at this rate it could someday be.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  2. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2021
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    771
    So you are happy with purchasing dlc with game breaking bugs? You have your priorities wrong
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. austinbrewer7868

    austinbrewer7868 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    203
    You guys are all stating good notes here and all I've been wanting is to use all the sidings on the Canadian National free roam job instead theres invisible walls on them:(:(
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. kevc137

    kevc137 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    12
    Unfortunately, the fix as I see it at the moment is a hiatus on new releases and a 100% commitment to fixing the existing issues. We know that this won't happen as DTG is no different to the likes of the big white goods stores that are just "box shifters" Whilst people buy the products they are making money so why should they change their methodology.
    I'm sure that if asked there are many people on these forums that would be happy to test the final pre-release versions of DLC from a customers perspective.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    It all starts with the basics. Fix the broken save game, fix the lighting, fix the sounds.
    As I commented in the similar PC area threads I get the impression there is so much focus on Spirit Of Steam, everything else has been dropped. And unless they can get some core fixes, SOS will be a potential disaster anyway, given the likely signalling complexity and trying to map the nuances of steam traction and era sounds into the limited sound engine.
    Also as commented elsewhere there is a noticeable disconnect between DTG and the forums, where you would often see a bit of input even if it didn’t solve the problem.

    I don’t know, maybe they and the product are all on final warnings if things do not improve. However at this point finding myself more and more to other products both in and out of the train sim genre (currently about to try Arma 3).
     
    • Like Like x 6
  6. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    7,493
    This is a good point, many times it has been that TSW2 currently has very limited sound channels it can play at once... and steam has a lot of sounds going at once. This along with other things definitely makes me worried about steam, unless big improvements to the engine comes prior.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2020
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    3,030
    I too agree with all the points the OP makes in his open letter.

    I play on ps5 and TSW 2 is getting worse with every update they release, I don't know what they are doing but the game is getting more and more broken. Routes that previously didn't crash now do and the performance is now worse than in version 1.0, suffering constant FPS drops and freezes. It feels worse than when I was playing on ps4 and also with the DLC limit problem.

    I can get past a lot of things wrong with this game but what I can't accept is playing in these poor conditions on a next gen console and on top of that with a version created specifically for it.

    In this thread we are writing players who love the game and have supported it, with words and with money, which is the most important thing for the company. We are not haters.

    Please DTG, do everything you can to make sure this game doesn't die. I think the time for nice words is running out, we want facts.
     
    • Like Like x 12
  8. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2021
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    639
    The next release is Horseshoe Curve. Given their track record (BR 187); if it comes with issues, those probably won't get fixed for months, or perhaps never. But I have a feeling a lot of people will preorder it on Thursday after the stream, and for many, it will be a day one purchase. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling it will come with a ton of issues. I know it's not made by DTG, but surely, if they see that a product is selling well regardless, why would they change their current approach? With these day one purchases/preorders, people just reinforce DTG's behaviour. I don't agree with this 'I buy the route regardless approach, because these purchases will pay the bills, therefore fixes will come.'. I think it's the other way around, you can only force them to change course if WE STOP BUYING DLCs until they get fixed.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  9. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2021
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    499
    I haven't got enough time or Energy to read all your comments. You are all correct. The only way to deal with this is "Everyone" stop buying "Any" DLC.

    I have to say that keeping "Any" Faith is hard, where DTG are concerned. I play a game for enjoyment, not total frustration at times, that the last hour or more of my life has just been wasted.

    I do find everything on the evenings YouTube chats just a puerile waste of my time. I have listened through a few, thought ok sounds like something will happen only to be slapped in the face.

    The Stand at Ally Pally was the worst I had seen, looked like it was thrown up and just some guys playing a game and chatting. Rather than a "Professional Company" plying their software. No banner, no curtains around the desks. It looked very heath Robinson to me.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  10. Selimbaba

    Selimbaba Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    16
    I am curious about if DTG will ad some issues to be fixed in their next roadmap.:cool: Since Rush Hour I didn't buy any new route.;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2021
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    1,264
    Like a few of said, maybe we should "vote with our wallets"
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    I am so glad the upcoming routes are freight and steam. Voting with my wallet is easy then. I thought after Tharander Rampe things were going the right way. Since Harlem I know that isn't the case.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,932
    Likes Received:
    23,958
    I have already passed on Harlem (too short), I won't buy another Rivet route until WCL gets some love (plus Luzern is another short modern route). HSC set in modern era not going to offer much the current TS one doesn't and I only played that for a little while.

    In short, unless DTG start to convince me they are fixing things and that SOS isn't going to be yet another disaster zone, my wallet too is already voting where TSW is concerned.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    Hello folks. Don't worry, no 'we understand your frustrations' here.

    We've read through the thread (and thank you for keeping it constructive and useful), and shared with Matt and the team. We know there are things we need to sort.

    I'll be hopping onto tomorrow's Roadmap live stream with Nat, Matt, and Adam, where we can talk about this at greater length than we can with a response on here. I'll then timestamp and link it in this thread after so you can watch.
     
    • Like Like x 13
    • Helpful Helpful x 6
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,478
    Likes Received:
    17,341
    This doesn’t work on any level. We are people who want the product. We have no alternative product to buy. If I stop buying DLC there will be new customers to replace me. That doesn’t help me. Significant numbers of people would have to stop buying completely to affect DTG and the overall effect of that would be lower quality anyway. I want a better product from DTG and not buying any more DLC won’t stop them systematically introducing new issues to DLC I already own with their flawed Pres Crew approach, which is one of the things I’m most annoyed about at present. I had a perfectly playable TVL which has now been ‘improved’ to have flickering textures on the track because they have taken no care in the upgrade procedure and not checked what they have done. I’m not wasting my time posting this kind of feedback on the forum because I just want to vent while not actually buying the product.

    If I decided to ditch TSW and DTG you wouldn’t see me for dust, I’d be wasting everybody’s time. I want improvements. This thread is here because of a string of disappointments caused by some issue of mismanagement or incompetence in the company, a company that we want to see succeed and give us great products. There have always been some quality issues with TSW but at the moment they are snowballing. You can tell that by the number of times that we read apologies and being thanked for our patience. Patience is only rewarded with results and we aren’t seeing them. Our patience with the Pres Crew updates is being rewarded with worse versions of what we had in the first place with no fixes for the existing issues, on top of limits of patience being tested with the DLC limit and crashes on numerous routes being as yet unresolved. We’re not complaining because we don’t want the product. Voting with our wallets is no solution to the issues, DTG taking note and making the necessary changes is.
     
    • Like Like x 18
  16. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    788
    Likes Received:
    854
    As I said earlier, keep the faith.

    Matt is doing a grand job.

    Nat is a adequate community manager.

    JD is chirpy chap who I have alot of time for.

    Matt will get this reset ready for tsw3, onwards and upwards.

    This game will build back better, I can assure you.

    Very much looking forward to steam/planner 2.00/tsw3/4th revolution of the game.

    Yours in good faith
     
  17. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2021
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    639
    I see your point, but we don't 'vote with our wallets' to punish DTG or to force them to change. People simply stop buying DLCs because they're so fed up that they spend their hard-earned cash on half-baked content with issues that lead to frustration, rather than enjoyment. I'd call this a natural response.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Why do we need a TSW3 though? So we can get a slightly updated version of the same game again and then have to port old dlc's again and then have the Preservation Crew fix it again. TSW3 is not necessary and frankly we don't need another engine upgrade again. Graphics don't make a great game.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  19. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    Sorry JD, don't want to give you a hard time but I'm going full Karen on you now. We want to speak to the manager! :mad:

    These roadmap talks have been enlightening but also lead to more frustration as we get to hear the same thing over and over again. "It will get better". I think it's time to get the CEO to acknowledge the issues. That's what all the big video game companies do when they're mismanagement screws over Playstation gamers. He is the main responsible for this game. Tell your CEO, if he wants to play with the big boys he has to act like one. Stop hiding behind your team.
     
    • Like Like x 17
  20. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    788
    Likes Received:
    854
    I think the Preservation Crew have learnt from last time and will be ready for tsw3. Tsw3 this summer maybe, 2023 more likely. I would expect the game to be next gen only/pc for tsw3, maybe. Or in all likelihood some form of two tier approach, tsw2 legacy support for last gen until 2023, then tsw3 slowly phased in for 2024.

    Either way it's a good team, I hope they do very well
     
  21. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2021
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    639
    This is quite off-topic, maybe you should open a topic about speculations. TSW2 didn't solve much, when DLCs got ported, a lot of things got broken. No one wants to endure that pain and suffering again.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I mean I guess Matt is some ways the manager since he is Executive Producer who is supposed to make sure things roll out well and supervise the team. He's effectively in charge of TSW2. It's safe to say that Matt hasn't done the best job but then again some situations are out of his hands.

    If your wishing for a word with the CEO, that won't happen. He just hides behind his team as always and let's people who have nothing to do with the decisions that he or the other executives make be the scapegoat unfortunately
     
    • Like Like x 3
  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    There you go again with your personality-focused silliness. Who cares whether the community managers are " chirpy " or not? They are not the targets of our criticism. Your glad handed posts add nothing of substance to the discussion.
    And calling someone " adequate " is really disparaging. I'm sure she appreciates that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 9
  24. Nathan Kemp

    Nathan Kemp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    105
    You have hit the nail on head. Very well said.

    Personally from my view, I'm about to throw the game in the trash where it belongs. After the last update I lost all of my medals on tees vally line services. The main menu is laggy as hell and freezes. And a whole more of faults.

    Quite frankly I am sick and bloody tired of the same BS excuses. Its time Dovetail pulled thee head oit of there backside and woke up. Maybe it's time we stop buying DLC's. We are the consumer, we have the power to say weather or not the game will be here in another 5 years time.

    DTG get a grip.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    But why do we need a tsw3 though? Why is a tsw3 even necessary? People don't want to have their old routes riddled with bugs again so why do we need effectively a separate version of the same game again?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  26. Nathan Kemp

    Nathan Kemp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    105
    I am asking nicely please do not buy anymore of the DLs. We have to make a stand.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  27. Nathan Kemp

    Nathan Kemp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    105
    JD

    Talk is cheap, we need action. DTG seems to be good at talking the talk, use ant so good at walking the line. It's become a slap in the face. Anyway this next road map should good, I'll get my book of excuses out ready.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 6
  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I won't be buying anymore dlc unless harlem gets a patch but after that I am done until DTG get their act together. But let's face it a few people not buying dlc's won't change things because there are always people that will buy regardless of how a route may be
     
    • Like Like x 3
  29. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    But what can Matt tell us besides what we have already heard? I don't want to downplay Matt's promotion but Executive Producer at DTG seems to mean he get's to be the scapegoat for all the issues. Nobody can be mad or stay mad at Matt. No wonder he got that promotion ;)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  30. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Matt’s a good guy. Unfortunately, he can’t do everything himself. He might want to, but he’s not superhuman.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  31. Luvvy Duvvy

    Luvvy Duvvy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2022
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    30
    Thanks JD - this is very encouraging. What we need now is a formal statement that goes something like this:

    "The Board has recognised that the ongoing quality issues with Train Sim World 2 present a serious risk to the ongoing profitability of the franchise, and could adversely impact the return to our investors. The Board has now directed senior managers involved in production of Train Sim World 2 to immediately institute a three point plan to address the problem, as follows:

    1. All player-reported bugs and issues will be collated and published in a "Bugs and Issues List". This will provide some assurance to our customers that their concerns have been acknowledged and will be acted upon, and will indicate when issues were first reported and finally resolved.
    2. Progress to deal with bugs and issues will be reported monthly to the Board, with the aim of clearing up all issues with all existing content by December 2024. Progress will also be reported to customers as part of a Monthly Issues Roadmap Update - these events, coupled with rigorous analysis of issues raised in the Forums, will be used to gather information to prioritise the bug-fixing programme for the benefit of our customers.
    3. Each bug and issue will be tagged with a "Lesson To Learn Outcome" which will be fed into a structured process to improve future product development. Each issue will be flagged in a checklist that will be absorbed into a new programme of Quality Assurance, with the intention to reduce the frequency of repeated bugs and issues to zero by December 2022. In future, "testing" will not just mean a handful of people checking for authenticity, but will include functional testing of the actual simulation to ensure that our products are fit for purpose - this will include a QA process for all platforms including PS4 and XBox, carried out before each software product is allowed to release to market."

    The above is basically what we need to hear. Anything less won't cut it.
     
    • Like Like x 13
  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Yeh which is why people probably can't really or fully blame Matt. He can't do everything himself and some things are out of his hands. It's the higher up executives that are to blame for this mess
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  33. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2021
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    499
    Thanks for your comments "But":-
    Sorry but we or I have heard it all before. The proof that we want to see as your customers is actions (As they speak louder than words). Fixes that Fix and do not break more parts of the Game / Simulation. New DLC that works fully and not just in parts. Your QA department has a lot to do, as does the whole company to get our or "My" trust back.

    I am sorry in some ways, that what I have to seemly keep posting, is the same words. I would rather say good things but really what have we or "I" seen over the last 2 years.

    People can keep bleating on about supporting DTG and buying things to keep the company afloat. It does seem that some just want to get more DLC at whatever the cost. That is DTG's problem not ours as your customer.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  34. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2021
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    499
    Hear Hear, you have my vote as going into DTG as a fully paid consultant to start fixing things ;):D
     
    • Like Like x 4
  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    A statement by a dtg executive or CEO like this would be much better then the "we understand your frustration" nonsense.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    !!!? :D:D
    Some of us are getting a bit long in the tooth. :D

    ( my emphasis ).
     
    • Like Like x 7
  37. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    2,885
    The issue is that this topic has been discussed on a great deal of occasions over the last few years.

    - Quality control, a discussion done to death. DLC is still being released with extremely obvious bugs and content that simply doesn't work.

    - Transparency. The first road maps used to show what bugs you've acknowledged and what foxes you're working on. This is long gone, and we are back to the days where we have no clue what bugs you're aware of. The roadmap doesn't even display the routes you're working on. The developer update you're now doing each month is nice, but it's far from being a roadmap.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  38. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    292
    If the same mistakes are made again and again, i.e. serial errors, it is a structural problem! You don't need QA to solve this. Regardless of whether it works according to specifications or has the wrong specifications. It's just useless.

    The solution is to change the structure that leads to the well-known serial errors in such a way that this is eradicated.

    If the existing software systems such as Simugraph do not (yet) provide this functionality, the way of working must be changed in such a way that these errors cannot occur and therefore do not have to be checked. As I said, it is a structural problem. If you stick to it, the same LOVE always comes out. Logical.

    In addition to the structural problems, there are also a lack of standards. TVL is a pleasure when driving at night, on other routes you should check whether the TV is still switched on at all. So if TVL can do it, so can everyone else. That must then be a standard. But here, too, there is a patchwork quilt.

    The same applies to red lights. Some routes don't have the problem. Others remarkably often. Did the developers just get lucky with one track and unlucky with the other? Is this fate? Apparently there are no standards here either. If you had this and would act accordingly, these errors would not exist. Sounds funny, but that's how it is.

    Different aspect. TSW has been growing slowly but steadily, as has the community and the number of buyers. Every company wants to make money, but it has to. In certain phases of expansion, such tipping points are repeatedly reached as we see here at DTG. You have to move forward and you have a bigger and bigger pack to carry. This is a phase where everything is sewn on edge. It's like in nature, where a young animal has to survive a critical phase in order not to be eaten again.

    So what's the point of a boycott? It is an expression of one's own state of mind, but it doesn't make anything better. And yes, there are players / buyers who say to themselves that if it works 75% and I can live with it, it's very annoying but I also just want the DLC! Instead of a boycott, I also have the right to object to criticism but also to enjoy it to the extent that it is justifiable for me. It's also a very personal decision.

    I sympathize with the devs, but also with Matt, who must be just as frustrated by this and wish the TSW world were finally carefree. And maybe it needs a manager who drives the thing to the wall so that someone else can come and do it better. But I'm not writing off the team or TSW, I'm too confident in the product for that and yes, that's the price I'm paying for it. Nothing comes for free. And yes, I want it to continue, to go up, even if things don't always go smoothly. Up to a certain point I still carry it all with me. It shouldn't tip any further...

    Btw, I work in a large medium-sized company, where such problems are also the order of the day. I would like to work professionally, but they won't let me. The solution for everything is always: put a piece of wood underneath. Unfortunately, that's not a figure of speech, it's the truth!

    So I can only hope TSW doesn't unleash itself in a ghost of steam any time soon! I want it to continue! I love TSW. Nevertheless.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  39. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    I don't disagree on the 'walk the walk'. From what we can do as a Community team though is to ensure accountability, ask the questions you're asking, and representing your feedback (positive, constructive, or otherwise).
     
    • Like Like x 7
  40. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    1,453
    I appreciate the sentiment of this but it does strike me as somewhat unrealistic.

    Publicly and officially stating profitis are at risk is a surefire way to undermine investor confidence and no company is going to throw itself under the bus like that.

    Publishing a full, comprehensive buglist is of course, a wonderful idea from the player perspective. It others a convenient way for everyone to know what bugs are known and the progress of fixes. However, the simple fact is the vast majority of bugs are unknown to the vast majority of players and never will be. We are all only aware of the issues that we personally have experienced.

    A game developer publishing a public buglist is in effect handed the playerbase a stick with which to beat them with. Suddenly we all became aware of issues we never noticed before. Any patches will be met with the same response of 'why have you not fixed these bugs?' and 'why have you only fixed these ones?'. Whilst it is on the surface good for the playerbase, a public buglist won't get bugs fixed any quicker, it'll just give us the curse of knowing about all the bugs we never would have noticed before.

    That being said, there is nothing stopping a community curated bug list. We had it on another simulator forum which I use in which a community member created a bug list which compiled user reports into one place and kept track of those that have been acknowledged, investigated and fixed etc. It was certainly a popular initiative on that forum and while I don't believe in is in a developers best interest to publish a buglist, if the community wants a buglist then the community can make one.

    As another point, the idea of 'all [existing] issues' being eliminated within any time frame is sadly an impossibility, with infinite time and resources then perhaps yes. But, that is not the case and never will be, the idea of totally bug-free software is a myth.

    I would like to say that I consider myself among those who view DTG more favourably and I am sure there are those reading this thread who would count me among the 'usual defenders'. I have spent a long time on sim forums, I currently am a volunteer moderator on a discord server and forum and have spoken at length with other long time moderators and on occasion developers themselves and in that time I have perhaps been more sympathetic towards the game development process than many others.

    I do believe that the gaming community as a whole holds developers to an impossible standard on occasion and that as a community we tend to overlook the difficulties of the process. We can often become overzealous in what we believe is the best direction for a game, such is the consequence of a passionate fanbase.

    But that is not to say I believe any of the complaints made here or in other threads are invalid. The simple fact of the matter is that we as a community are passionate about this game and we all want to see it become the best game it can be. Sadly for many of us here the past months have fallen short. While may be more sympathetic and forgiving as to how these issues arise than others I too have my issues with the game same as the rest of you. I too have noticed many of those who I considered to more closely share my views on the game shift further and further to a more critical way of thinking.

    At the end of a day there is a reason why there is dissatisfaction and though I believe some have a tendency to overlook reality in favour of their idea of a perfect solution and I do believe some steps have been made in the right direction but the fact remains that the issues are here and need resolving one way or another.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  41. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Take this with a pinch of satire. Should help with some scripting for stream too (sorry guys, I know it’s not you personally and you’re working for us) :cool:

    64F47799-4B82-49A0-97DC-11351C611C1E.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 25
  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Place your bets if you think everything on the bingo card will be said on the roadmap stream :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  43. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2021
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    570
    Pretty accurate lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    May I just add that my satire is based only on what I perceive as an avid stream watcher are the “go to statements”. No offence meant to anyone on the streams as I appreciate you have a company line to toe (thanks solicitr )If I can come up with 20 common slogans or questions quick then it’s evident there’s an internal vehicle not operating effectively to eradicate them
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,736
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    Unfortunately, Matt has no control over two key areas which generate much of the frustration: QA does not come under his purview, neither are release dates within his remit. Even though the QA department requires a good old-fashioned Roman decimation, Matt P is not the executive in a position to do the needful. Nor apparently does he drive the release schedule, whether bug fixes or, more crucially, forcing new DLC out before it's ready.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,736
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    Toe.
     
  47. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    I think blaming QA entirely is missing the point, the work that is getting sent to QA is not good enough. People are presumably thinking they can send it and it will be fine or is good enough already, but the work is woefully short of that.

    Additionally of course, QA not being train specific it may well be they don't know if the sounds are right or not, or whether the acceleration is proto-typical.

    I can see that some things just need a simple playthrough to observe, like passengers falling through the floor of the 150. But isn't it the responsbility of the dev who made it to check that it looks ok before sending it to QA?

    It may be that they are pushed for time and getting it "off to QA" means it isn't sat in their workload any more, it could be that internally QA is a useful dumping ground and given the well known backlog that you can send work there and not hear back about it for ages.

    So yes QA are not picking everything up, but some of the things being released shouldn't even have been sent to QA in that condition. And that is something that the EP can do something about.

    My concern is that Matt used to say he had looked at something and picked up an issue and was getting it fixed, now he is up a level maybe it is his absence as a dev that we are actually seeing the effect of - things he would have picked up in his previous role that are not now being found before release.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  48. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I don't think anyone here is expecting a completely bug free product. Nothing in gaming will be bug free which is the reality of modern gaming. But I do find it odd that the same issues do keep popping up again and again and the clear as day bugs such as the ai m7a's don't have their passenger lights on as an example should have been spotting and fixed before release. Now I do agree that a bug list really isn't sustainable but it would be nice to know if a certain issue is being worked on. For example the audio issue on the Bombardier M7 EMU on LIRR has been going on for more then a year with the propulsion cutting out in the rear 4, 6 or 8 cars with no fix and DTG hasn't acknowledged if they are working on a fix for it. I think if there's an acknowledgment of something, that's better than not getting an answer at all.

    Also usually when a game has a ton of issues, executives or ceo's would come out and make sort of statement. Now a ceo doesn't have to say something that can make investors disillusioned, but acknowledging the issues certainly isn't a bad thing instead of hiding behind your team to clean up the mess you caused.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Yeh what you said is why I said that some issues are out of his hands. It's not really his fault. But even then it would be best for the dev team to try to find issues and fix them before sending them to QA. Something as minor as the ai M7A's not having their passenger lights on when they are moving in a service is something that could've been spotted immediately and fixed before release for example. Some issues shouldn't be sent to QA in the first place and Matt as Executive Producer can do something about that. But again if the executives are putting strict time constraints, there's only so many bugs that devs can sort out before the product has to be released regardless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Personally I think the way the accountants cost the routes to be commercially viable are impacting quality
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page