We spoke to the team working on the complex signalling of the upcoming Spirit of Steam: Liverpool Lime Street – Crewe, finding out what research is needed to bring you such a vital aspect of railway logistics, and how they are conquering this mammoth task. Read the article here.
Still very interesting on how the Signal Boxes are gonna be made to fit this route, along with the signals themselves. This should be looking like a fun sight indeed. (Compared to HSC, which I haven't heard from in a while now)
Very interesting and this might open the possibility of West German Semaphore signals Hp Vr with PZB. Examples West German steam routes like 1950s Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden and Koblenz Mainz Frankfurt Am Main 1960s.
I hope we get to see these semaphores working correctly! Mainly: - Rule Book, Module TS1 clause 4.7. Rule as 39a as it was in the 1950s! "If you cannot clear a stop signal, you must not clear any associated signals in rear of it until the train has nearly stopped at each signal in turn". So no clear runs to a signal at danger, nor to a lower speed set of points. - Interlocked distant signals that can only show clear if all of the signals between the first home and the starter are cleared. The only route in TS1 that actually does this is the AP wherry lines. No DTG routes ever did this.
I too hope for the details Bescot has mentioned - however, I can't see them mentioned in the article, therefore I fear they may not be implemented, unfortunately. Surely if they were implemented, they would be talking about them. I really hope that I'm wrong! I'm still disapointed that the BML hasn't been updated with slow speed approach control signalling - hopefully the next UK modern route will have this implemented.
I’m looking forward to this route. I dare say the “I know that stations wrong” from someone born post 1995 will happen mind you
Don't forget Rule 39A does not apply if the stop arms are controlled from different blockposts. "Starter" - let's not forget that there are Advanced Starters on this route, as well as the rare implementation of a set of IBS in rear of the controlling box.
Yes, it's important that the distant signals work correctly, i.e. only show green when all the stop signals between that distant and the next distant are clear. I don't believe this has ever been implemented correctly and as a result it's impossible to have one train closely following another between Stalybridge and Huddersfield for example on NTP because you will get a red signal with no warning and SPAD, it breaks the gameplay. It would be good to hear that the team building the signalling have understood that a distant signal is not just supposed to repeat what the next signal is showing.
I have just started on TSW and am very impressed indeed by the graphics - I can't go back to the old Train Sim. I was disappointed however when I read the Tees Valley manual which described the function of a distant signal as "Distant signals, sometimes referred to as Related Signals, essentially provide advanced warning of the aspect being displayed on the next block signal (the signal it is related to)". This is wrong as correspondent atpyatt accurately described above and I hope that this major error has been taken on board - distants are only cleared to OFF when all homes on the main route through a block post and into the next block section are also OFF, and this is ensured by the signalbox signal frame interlocking. Note it is also only the main fast route through the block post, distants cannot be cleared for routes set to slower loop lines, sidings or diverging routes. Also, in 40 years working as a Chartered Engineer in the UK (and abroad) rail industry, I have NEVER heard of a distant signal referred to as a "Related" signal. The other signalling related issue as I have seen on Tees Valley, North Pennine and the Bakerloo TSW routes is the signal aspect at the platform end spuriously being used to give the driver the "right away". This is NOT the signalman's function. It is either by the guard (where trains have guards) via two buzzes on the train comms buzzer on unit trains or a green flag or light along the platform on loco hauled trains. At major stations a "RA" (Right Away) indicator adjacent to the platform end signal is operated by platform staff after the tip from the guard. On One-Man-Operated trains at small stations the driver simply closes the doors when all passengers have loaded and departs per timetable departure time. I really hope that these glaring errors are being addressed in the Liverpool to Crewe route. I know the route well as I used to work on the WCML 25kV OLE between Euston and Carlisle and branches The only other thing (I hope you will forgive me for deviating from signalling issues here) is please put the railway boundary fences at the right locations. The railway's land and maintenance responsibility includes all earthworks and consequently the boundary fences should be at the bottom of embankments and the top of cuttings and not a uniform distance from the running edge. On my local line (West Anglia) this means that at some locations the boundary fence is a good 50 metres plus from the cess rail. On Train Sim (where a world editor is available) I copied all of my UK routes to a separate "enhanced" version and either deleted or relocated misplaced fences. This, sadly, is not an option on TSW and we are reliant on creators for a lifelike route. Thanks. Paul
As I said upthread, the signalling team (which has grown since the days of the Tees Valley) know how distants work and have implemented it from what would be expected if designing the locking to be either LNW tumbler or LMS reduced action tappet locking. You will find, hopefully, that there are several instances of inner/outer distants, as well as splitting distants that are valid for more than one main route through station limits and out towards the block section in advance.
Thank you for that, MRFS. At the risk of being accused of being pedantic, can you comment on my two other points, namely the issue of right away indications and the position of boundary fences.
Boundary fences, whilst bound by the provisions of the Railway Clauses Consolidation Act of 1845 are not within the ambit of the signalling department. Single and Double sided R indicators (where appropriate) according to the 1945 signalling scheme and the 1948 signalling notice have been provided at Liverpool Lime Street. They may, at present, be decorative.
If the boundary fences were located as historically, in many cases out of sight of the tracks, "purists" here would scream about missing fences.
Pardon? Railway companies would not buy more land than needed, and as enjoined by the 1845 Act they were responsible for the maintenance - better to have as little extra land as possible and kept within the view of passing staff.
Just for one thing, railway ownership and responsibility for cuttings ran (and runs) to the top of the slope; there are many other cases where the RoW extends much farther than the edge of the ballast.
Are you drawing a distinction between limits of deviation and (lapsed) powers or are you putting something else into the mix? 10 yards was the permitted deviation from the books of reference.
I am not talking about limits of deviation - I am simply referring to the railway boundary fences for the operating railway at the wrong locations (I am, by the way, the complete "Purist"). They should be at the edges of the land and earthworks for which the railway is responsible, eg at the top of cuttings and at the base of embankments. It is better not to provide them at all than to position them a uniform couple of meters from the rail edge where their mis-location is annoyingly apparent. There has been talk in several forums about guards. Where "R" indicators or driver/guard communication buzzers are not provided (or on One-Man-Operated trains) there has to be either a green flag or lamp (or hand signal) from the guard to give the driver the right away. This is not done by changing a signal aspect.
It's a shame DGT are not very forthcoming with teaser shots like the above, would it really be detrimental to DTG/Spirit of Steam if they were to show some official teaser pics?
