An Open Letter To Dtg

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mattty May, Apr 2, 2022.

  1. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    The comment on 'bug free' was in response to this in the quoted post: 'with the aim of clearing up all issues with all existing content by December 2024'.

    But yes, I can see the issue with the acknowledgement of problems, especially at weekends when replies from DTG are much less frequent, makes me wonder if there needs to be one or two more community managers to assist to forum side of things particularly at weekends and 'out of hours'. I suppose that's the benefit of the volunteer moderator system I am used to, although volunteers won't necessarily be able to provide answer's to the same degree as the CMs it will at least make it easier to be heard outside of the usual UK weekday 9-5 in which we see the most DTG activity.
     
  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that commenting could potentially be difficult but then again isn't that the purpose of having a community managers in the first place? What's the point of having community managers if they can't answer a question that a player may have. If a member of a community has a question, then usually a community manager would ask someone higher up for an answer and then the community manager would relay that information back to the person who asked it. I mean a community manager can ask about a certain bug and see if there will be a fix.That's a simple yes or no question. If I were to ask if the M7 audio bug will be fixed, I would most likely get either a yes or no answer. Sure replies can take a while but hey not every game company will always get back to people in a day or on weekends. My college professors don't always reply to my emails during weekends and I'm ok with that because we all have a life outside of our 9AM to 5PM jobs.

    Also the statement you quoted was more of an example of what the executives should say and not literal
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  3. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    What really makes my Playstation fanboy heart cry is when you read the reviews on the on the PC forum of the Harlem line. At first I was thinking "those PC users are real noobs, they don't know a thing about train simulators like we do on the Playstation forum" ;) but then I read this topic and realised we got a very old build. PC has a build where the testing of the journey missions had taken place. They have a build where the problems we see on Playstation are only restricted to only the timetables. It proves we get the I-dont-know-just-release-it-and-if-it-doesnt-work-we-will-read-it-on-the-forum version of the Harlem route. Unacceptable!

    I'll have to let my inner Karen out for the second time today: Who pays DTG's bills? We at Playstation do! I want to see the manager! :mad:
     
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  4. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just wondering if perhaps having a couple US based CMs would help them cover more of the day or something. I don't know, it's just an idea I haven't thought it through.
     
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  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    9AM in the UK is I believe 4AM in the East Coast of the United States and 5PM in the UK is 12PM in the East Coast Of The U.S so this could be a good idea for us american players in theory since we would probably sleeping during the hours that DTG are open. It would be even earlier if you lived in the Midwest or West coast
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  6. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Here's one example of what can be done. Obviously DTG is just a bit smaller than Ubisoft, but maybe this can offer ideas toward a different way of working.

    1. A list of known issues that the devs are actively investigating.
    https://discussions.ubisoft.com/top...alhalla-known-issues-updated-mar-7?lang=en-US

    2. A thread to report issues, which feeds into the above.
    https://discussions.ubisoft.com/top...ere-for-your-issue-updated-30-3-22?lang=en-US

    3. Title update process and roadmap!
    https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/assassins-creed/valhalla/news-updates/42l51W2bDCSPw7FCkhc12e

    Also, as a reality check, people might look at the sheer size of the Valhalla buglist already fixed and those to be fixed and consider that this game was released in November 2020. And Ubisoft is hardly alone in releasing games in this condition.
     
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  7. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    Well you couldn’t make up JD’s response unbelievable or is he taking the Mickey that he understands our frustrations.

    As for tomorrow nights Roadmap stream we will have to wait and see because we have had such streams before with Matt promising a lot but not actually delivering. Perhaps this thread will actually make those that matter sit up and listen. I don’t blame Matt but I do blame those above him who think they can continue to treat customers in the way we have been treated.

    We all accept that there will be bugs but not bugs that make the game unplayable with no resolve months and months down the line whilst new releases appear to be coming out quicker than ever before. The last update in respect of London Commuter was nothing less than an insult with one minor issue addressed and this is over 5 months after release.
     
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  8. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I've learnt to live with the bugs and go with the don't like it or not interested then don't buy it mentality. And you know what I still play what I like and have fun and that is all that matters in the end.

    Maybe it's because I'm old and was playing games back in the mid 80's but this is a game I would of died for back then, hell even 10 years ago I would of said you were crazy that there would ever be a good quality simulator on console. A great one on Series X.

    Of course DTG are going to be money first, this isn't freeware. They are a business and the sheer definition of a successful business is to make money.

    Reputation and quality are only tools used to make more profit from word of mouth. Its not vital, it helps, but it is not mandatory.

    McDonalds sells more burgers than anyone else, and it certainly is not for quality, or reputation.

    When you are constantly trying to push the envelope like you do when you have an ever evolving game like TSW it's never going to be perfect. If it was they would be done with the game and move on to the next thing. TSWVR.

    And for those PC users who say console users are holding this sim back. Since day 1 they have said their intention was to make this sim for consoles, you guys have TS1 for PC only train simulation already and with 66% of sales on consoles we are not going anywhere soon.
     
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  9. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

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    I agree with bakedpotatos.jm completely. I can live with bugged skyboxes or wonky stations, such as Reigate. However I can't understand how game breaking bugs, such as crashes or signalling issues can get through DTG?!
    I hope these can be fixed, im not too bothered when although it must be a reasonable timescale, what I expect is these to be fixed well, not Donald Trump-it and let the next one clean up the mess.
     
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  10. Nathan Kemp

    Nathan Kemp Active Member

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    JD

    Actions speaker louder the words. I really hope we some improvement. I've supported this game since it's release. I own nearly all routes and all the locos. I've said what I've had to say. I will now just sit back and watch. I wish DTG all the best.




     
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  11. Luvvy Duvvy

    Luvvy Duvvy Member

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    I will start with the aside - DTG is not a PLC or listed on the stock exchange, and equity investors and private owners do tend to take an active interest in the views of their customers, and the source of their income. This would often include members of the Board.

    I agree with this - it would be extremely helpful and sanity-restoring for many players. It would also save them time.

    However, I fully disagree with you on the above. A community-driven bug list is literally the way for players to whip a developer, as an absolute last resort. But a developer-run Known Issues List (such as that for Valhalla, mentioned in a post above) is a transparent way for the developer to demonstrate that it is positively for continuous improvement, expects itself to meet a basic standard of quality, and is listening to customer concerns and acting upon them in a timely way. The developer is only handing out a stick to be beaten with if the developer has absolutely no intention to fix its broken software.

    Further to this the developer actually maintains an issues list - and this is required by platform partners such as Microsoft, Epic, Valve and Sony. It is not exactly much of a stretch to then make the list public - assuming there is an intention to commit to fixing the issues.

    Well, let us know when you reach the point where you think something needs to change. That would be a whole new threshold of discontent - when the volunteer mods start having doubts about where the game is going.... By the way - do you pay for the DLC (?) - because anyone that gets free DLC can have no real expectation of quality, and such people suffer no material loss.

    Let me give you an example. And perhaps you can tell me whether this bug should be acknowledged, listed as a priority with progress updates and then fixed...... or indeed, if fixing it would be "expecting the developer to meet an impossible standard"....:

    .......The "Fast Lane" scenario on PS4 (on London Commuter) cannot be completed because it has an incorrectly hashed set of objectives (bad copy and paste from another scenario) and the train spawns in the wrong place. This is core scenario content (and core "Journey" content) that cannot be completed. It also breaks the Playstation trophy (on PS4) related to completing all scenarios. This is game-breaking and doesn't comply with Sony's requirements on support for trophies. And this is part of DTG's flagship "Rush Hour" release in 2021.

    Should something like that get fixed? It was also broken on PC and PS5, but has been fixed on those platforms - so they even have the solution to hand. And yet after every single TSW 2 update players try out the scenario and it remains broken. The solution is simple - list it on a list of Known Issues, programme in a time to push out the patch, and let customers know so that they don't waste their time - especially when the developer itself can't be bothered to use its time to play-test the core content on consoles in the first place.
     
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  12. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I agree that you do represent our feedback on streams, the issue lies with the company. For DTG to be accountable, they need to listen AND act on feedback.

    There's no point in listening if nothing changes unfortunately. And since TSW 2 has released, we saw improvement (mostly as a result of Sam's communication) and then a steady deterioration.
     
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  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this and also a team for reading the suggestions for DTG. The first Two will improve the Technical bug section of the forums.
     
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  14. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    We've heard all this before, but nothing changes. What the hell is going on?
     
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  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    You do have to to wonder how many people do just drop the game and not bother trying to communicate via social media their feedback.

    I know there have been other franchises (project cars) whereby it got that bad I dropped it on the day and never bothered with a forum or a return to it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  16. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    Alot of folks don't. Though it has to be said that when you call em out on social media, they react quick lol! I ain't keen on the likes of facebook, but its great for getting ignorant companies to take action.
     
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  17. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Well, first things first, I have received no free content for the game I moderate for.

    Secondly, I absolutely believe things do need to change, just because I admit to holding a more sympathetic view towards the developer that in mo way means that I am satisfied with the current status quo.

    Finally, of course I believe that needs fixing, I am not sitting here with rose tinted spectacles pretending all is perfect. My comment of an 'important standard' is more in reference to the expectation or perfection and full transparency.

    I apologise if my words have not come across as I intended but I simply wished to explain my perspective on matters. I thought I made it clear that despite my 'sympathetic' outlook, as I have referred to it, I do believe that we are in a situation of great dissatisfaction among the player base and that things do need resolving.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ah today's roadmap stream will be interesting.
     
  19. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    It's going to be a good stream tonight.

    Lots of very calm people trying to make the game as good as it can be and getting paid to be there which is excellent, if only we could all be paid to do what we enjoy and some of the comms team I think really enjoy it, which is something to be admired.

    It's going to be great, really looking forward to tsw3 with steam this summer.

    Then onto the big guns, 2024 bit of livery designer compat for HST, 2025 - 166 livery designer compat, 2026 couple new 377 electrostar remodelling.

    It's a great time to be here, building back better, for a better game.

    Much positivity to come both now and in the years ahead, think actual steam... coming this year... fantastic
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  20. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t have lots of cash, I have to think carefully about what add-ons I buy, and things have been steadily going down hill. For example, I’ve jumped on London Commuter today after a little time away and it’s incredibly juddery. The FPS must be well down and there’s part where the lag makes it really unenjoyable. It’s not fun and things are not getting better. I’ve spent a lot on this game over the years, I had TSW1 when it first came out and then invested in TSW2 on the PS4 and then the Ps5 with Rush Hour. Let’s hope that the top brass start listening. As much as I don’t want DTG to fail, another rival train sim on console would maybe be the only way the company can be persuaded to up their game. Thanks L waiting and listening DTG, it’s time to act.
     
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  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    For the love of god mate, there is no tsw3 so will you stop acting like there will be a tsw3.
     
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  22. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I won’t be available to watch the stream tonight, I will be too busy driving my bus, but I’ll definitely be watching it with interest tomorrow.
     
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  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Its a paid upgrade featuring all preserved updates in once dlc , 2 skins for the 101 and a new mastery challenge. £24.99
     
  24. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the chief gets it.

    Well done chief
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    To think I nearly believed that lol
     
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  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I have to try and deal with this debacle with some humour otherwise Nat or JD would be having some serious words with me :D
     
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  27. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you think that the issues we've raised in this thread will garner some concrete answers and firm undertakings in the stream, I fear you will be disappointed. I expect the usual pablum, lots of PR talk while promising little or nothing, tea and sympathy. "We feel your pain", rather than " We will do this, that and the other by a date certain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  28. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Sadly, I don’t doubt you are correct. PR talk is not going to do it this time round though. Heard it all before. We need firm, positive actions. Will we get them? If DTG does really care, we will.
     
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  29. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    I like your positivity. But I have to say that DTG drained me of all of that. They have chances to restore it but crashed and burned each time. It will be what it will be! I shall get the short version than wasting an hour or more of my life listening to company waffle. Now back to that Fantasy World where all DLC work as expected by the Customers :|
     
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  30. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I almost feel like someone needs to educate on Smart goals.

    [​IMG]
     
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  31. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    I think its also very important to realize that the scope of customers that purchase TSW2 is very wide.
    There are those who see this first as as simulation, and then as a game. If a tree or a lamp post out of place, its a big issue.. to them.
    There are those that see TSW2 as just a game, and are not bothered about the finer details. They just enjoy driving trains.
    And there is everybody in between.
    Keeping everybody happy is impossible. If you try, you WILL fail.
    I have been lucky, I have ran into almost NO issues on PS5. Perhaps its the way I play.
    But I don`t have all the routes, nor do I look for inaccuracies, because it does not bother me, nor distract from my enjoyment.
    I have no doubt there are issues, but some issues matter more to some than others. At no point would I ever consider the game Un-Playable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  32. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    As far as I’m concerned, scenery other than the correct placement of track, stations and key landmarks doesn’t have to be accurate - although the route must feel like the real thing and not be unrecognisable. It has to look good, be properly placed and not clipping into trains. Trains should look, sound and drive as accurately as possible, otherwise why bother. Timetables should be realistic. Gold medals should be attainable on every service, training module and scenario in which they appear. Trophies should pop reliably every time. Collectables should be correct in number and physically accessible. Signalling systems and pathing should work flawlessly - no trains getting stuck, going backwards or behaving in odd ways.

    These are the fundamental, basic elements that need to be right, first time every time. I can accept occasional bugs and odd glitches - I don’t expect a completely fault free product, but currently, we are nowhere near that level of reliability.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2022
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  33. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Can`t disagree with any of that.
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I see what your saying but when dtg says that they make "Highly authentic recreations of routes and locos" then that's the standard they put on themselves and there are players who will hold them to that standard and expect nothing less. Sure some may not care about how realistic it is but nobody would be expecting 100% accuracy. Trains should sound as realistic as possible which dtg can do with the help of third parties, routes should feel like the real thing and not something you can't recognize. That should be the baseline standard whcih dtg have shown they can do but have simply been inconsistent. When we don't get those things, it's no wonder why some don't see tsw2 as a simulator.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  35. George C. Barnes

    George C. Barnes Member

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    Totally agree, DTG indeed needs some kind of internal review for their games before it has been released including those 3rd parties DLCs.
     
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  36. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    My main issue is a lack of consistency.

    I know many have mentioned this but take Dresden night lighting. That was a stand out point recently as was the timetable for BML. Both of these key things were met with what i saw as resounding positivity.

    What happened then.

    We keep hearing the team learned a lot from Matt and Lukas ( i think it was) about how to do night lighting yet nothing else I feel has come close.
    BML timetable Joethefish knocked this out the park and its set a high bar now which seems unreachable.

    These great features come along and then go in the span of one dlc in some ways. It's a shame.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  37. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    TsW3 would just mean starting with broken dlc and infinite waits for the Preservation Updates that never come.
    It doesn’t matter that these are all “nice people.” I’m sure they are; I appreciate their interaction with their customers, I’m glad that they take time to engage with us. It doesn’t change the fact that the company’s approach is fundamentally broken.
     
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  38. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    Well done. Love it.
     
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  39. tcmikaelsouza

    tcmikaelsouza Well-Known Member

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    I am also hyper-disappointed with the number of GROTESQUE MISTAKES the DTG has been committing, some that even a young boy would be able to identify, and the lack of community support in reporting and detailing is not lacking, but it seems unsolvable.
    Problems with the sound of the window of the locos in LBN, M7 LIRR with broken sound since then, Dresden - Riesa more breaks than it works, when it works it has a train in the middle of the way, red lights, bugs and glitches everywhere.
    I also LOVE TSW2, but it's sad to want to play a certain service and not know if it's possible to complete it.
     
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  40. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Hello folks - as promised, here's the VOD of tonight's stream.



    I've timestamped from about 25 minutes, which is where the meaty discussion kicks in around a lot of the issues mentioned above. It's around an hour and a quarter of solid discussion. I will type up a summary tomorrow, but I need to head to bed!

    EDIT: follow up this morning, a quick TL;DR. I do recommend watching though, as there are a lot of subpoints, and nuance involved in the discussion.
    • There have been some high points, but also some basic errors which should not have got through
    • There's a detailed discussion on QA process, beta groups, and types of QA we have available to us, as well as where we believe the failings to have been
    • We are bringing in a new QA Director (the first time someone on that seniority level has represented QA within the business) - whilst they won't change things overnight, their remit is to 'sort this out'
      • There are also discussions about shorter-term improvements to process
    • The long-awaited console beta is likely to start with Xbox with a smaller group of players, and we're hopeful this will be a matter of weeks
    • We are also investigating a public open beta (a new build engineer this week has been tasked with setting this up), used for getting early feedback on core fixes and Preservation Crew improvements
    • There will be 'functionality benchmarking', to ensure key component parts of a release are present and correct
    • What is important varies from player to player, but we need to have a minimum quality benchmark, and ensure routes are at least playable in their entirety
    • After the Spirit of Steam release, we will have an extended period of no first-party releases, and dedicate the time to solving a lot of longer-term issues (primarily focused around post-Rush Hour, but we may go further back if we have the scope to)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  41. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Thanks JD. Sleep well.
     
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  42. Luvvy Duvvy

    Luvvy Duvvy Member

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    I would not use the word "happy"... exactly... But, yes, I will keep buying future DLCs and support DTG with my wallet. Train Sim World is simply the best in genre (for the moment) - and it's a genre that I have been a fan of for about forty years.

    However... And this is the point that is important - there is no way that I would ever see myself paying full price for any future DLC, including the three-pack annual releases (normally a day one purchase for me). I won't be pre-ordering anything at all, not for a 10% discount. Not even for a 50% discount.

    As time goes on, the value of future DLCs continue to drop for me, in line with the drop in quality and general broken and incompleteness of them. I will now only buy DLC with a discount of at least 80% - for the ones that I most desire. This means that not only will DTG have to wait longer to get my money, but it will be considerably less money. And DTG are clearly okay with this - they marked down OSD, HRR and ECW to £2.49 in a recent sale. I will always buy DLCs at this price, unless they are trying to just sell a skin or timetable.

    Train Sim World is set to deteriorate further - it is spiralling out of control from a dev point of view. It is clear from today's (5th April) Roadmap stream that DTG has learned nothing at all and doesn't understand what the problems are with its software. They made it explicitly clear that they are completely unable to manage a Known Issues List - it would simply be too difficult for them - they simply do not have the competence to manage a list of problems, let alone actually commit to fixing any of them And this makes sense and fully explains why so many problems exist, and why the bugs and performance issues continue to appear as a surprise.... This isn't going to change. It will only get worse as the back catalogue grows in size.

    I don't think there is anything that anyone can do to help the situation - nothing will change. There is no chance that they will become a grown-up software studio. I am not bitter about this - they are train enthusiasts and genuinely lovely people - and they do try their very best and volunteer very long hours of their free time to make Train Sim World. And you have to respect them for that. Thankfully (hopefully..?) they are not in any way involved in managing anything to do with real-world railways...... TSW is just a game, after all.

    What you see with Train Sim World right now is the very best that they are capable of. Given that they are unable to learn, this is the best you are going to get (although maybe that point passed long ago). It will be exactly the same with Spirit of Steam, as it was with Rush Hour and as it was with the release of TSW 2, and the core update for Rush Hour within TSW 2. Chaos.

    I am just thankful that TSW 2020 is frozen in amber - because if that was live software then they would certainly break it - and then at some point in the future we'd have nothing.

    Right - time for me to grab myself a copy of HmmSim and explore some Korean trains (well worth £16 in Early Access). I might grab the Harlem DLC for TSW 2 at some point in the distant future - when it is made available for £2.49.... when the DLC has had a chance to mature, and to cover the risk that it will probably be in a terrible state when I buy it.
     
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  43. goochdog#5870

    goochdog#5870 Well-Known Member

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    I’m about halfway through this . I just want to say thanks for taking this so seriously and for forwarding it to all others concerned
     
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I am seriously hoping though that dtg can sort out whatever the issues are in the game after watching the stream. I am hopeful but there will eventually be a breaking point if they can't sort out issues with this game
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  45. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's rather a bit.... something. "DTG are not doing what I said they should do, therefore they are doomed." "Lovely people, but clearly clueless amateurs incapable of producing software" - simply because they didn't announce their adoption of your recommended Mother of All Bug Lists?

    Calls a word to mind... something that begins with.... E? O...? No, A. Begins with "A". and ends with "rrogant."
     
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  47. njkendall42

    njkendall42 Member

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    I agree with alot of what has been said. Things need to improve. I really hope steam is a good one, otherwise I think they are in trouble.
    I have spent more money on this game than any other. I have to say of late I have not purchased any DLC (since London commuter) I play this game, as do most, for a bit of escapism, to imagine if you like, that just for a brief moment in my head I'm doing my dream job, driving a train. (I can't for medical reasons)When this is brought to an end by a crash to main menu, the sound doing an impression of a pneumatic chisel, getting stuck on a red light..... I think the biggest issue is trust. If I buy something I expect it to work properly. (Minor bugs accepted) 25 quid is alot of money to me and to many others, all I ask is for something that keeps me in that wonderful world of driving a train and doesn't bring me crashing back into reality. As for who is to blame? I don't care. I don't think blame is constructive. Find out what went wrong and put things in place to prevent it happening again. Iam a sound tech, mistakes happen, nobody gets told off or blamed, it's talked about and generally faults are not repeated, pointing fingers is not helpful. I think DTG dug themselves a hole with the preservation thing. All routes that people had purchased in tsw 1 should have been included when tsw2 was conceived. They have been playing catch up ever since. I suppose it's a bit like any accident, it's not just one thing it's a whole series of things, but that decision not to transfer the routes from the start was the first mistake.
    I will continue to play this game cos I love it. But DTG need to gain my trust before I buy anything else. This makes me sad, fundamentally it's a great product.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  48. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    One thing that jumped out at me listening to last night’s stream, was the reason given why track quality has deteriorated on TVL. If I understood correctly, on consoles a lower resolution track texture is causing this flickering. This statement goes against everything I was led to believe regarding the gen 9 console version of TSW2, which we were told would be similar to the PC experience, just one notch down on draw distance. This latest news puts all that in question; are we getting fobbed off with gen 8 assets? If so, how many other low quality assets are being discreetly inserted into gen 9 builds? Perhaps TrainSim-Matt can clear this up?
     
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  49. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear Nat is leaving on last night's stream. Do we know if Sam is coming back as some form of vanguard role just to steady the ship alongside JD?
     
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  50. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I didn't get that part. Is she taking on another role?
     

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