Train Sim World 2 - Roadmap Update 5th April 2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Apr 5, 2022.

  1. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    NAT is leaving:( Its sad!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  2. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, so trivial that you decided to participate in the conversation on the topic.

    This is the roadmap thread, in fact it’s the first of a new format, and I’m leaving my feedback for it, this isn’t your own personal thread for deciding who has an opinion on what.
     
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  3. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Trivial eh? Ironic since my original post about it wasn't targeting you about it at all but yet you decided to participate in the conversation. I can have an opinion whether you agree or disagree. That doesn't make it trivial. Sorry if you can't handle a person disagreeing with you
     
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  4. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Right, this isn't an issue of a new format though, this was established months ago for example Luzern - Sursee was initially announced as 'Swiss Route' and as stated in the first roadmap of the year "the Roadmap will no longer be the place to find out the new routes that we’re developing. Instead each new add-on will be announced independently".

    To put it simply, the route is not being announced on the roadmap and for the forseeable future no routes will be. What is announced is that there is a German route being developed. Yes, we knew it was almost certain for a German route would be in development in the near future but now we can infer that a German route is probably one of the next two first party releases with the other being Spirit of Steam.

    In short, we know now more than we knew before and can infer some more beyond that. I cannot understand why that would be a problem.
     
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  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Because if you have no news on a new dlc, then there is no point in announcing something if you have no news on it or aren't certain where will it be going to/from but your just simply gonna disagree with me on that and think it's ok which is fine. We are entitled to our own opinions after all
     
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  6. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I just don't see it as a detriment to know more than we knew before. Sure, it isn't the most useful piece of information but no harm is done in saying it. Anyway, I shall leave it at that, I've said what I wanted to say.
     
  7. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For the German route this might be Hauptstrecke Nürnberg Passau HNP abbreviation or Hauptstrecke Rosenheim Innsbruck HRI both have ÖBB nightjet services. For Railjet Nightjet (EN468 469 Paris Est EN294 295 Allegro Tosca München Roma section combined with EN 462 Kalman Imre München Hauptbahnhof to Budapest Keleti via Wien Hbf) Rail Cargo Austria ÖBB Deutsche Bahn Freight S-Bahn and Regional Hauptstrecke München Salzburg HMS. Freight services should start at Rangierbahnhof München Laim to Verschiebebahnhof Salzburg Gnigl
    If Steam 1960s Hollandstrecke Duisburg-Oberhausen-Arnhem Utrecht 135 km abbreviation is HDU (Hollandstrecke Duisburg Utrecht). Route requires German steam locomotives to end at Arnhem Centraal because Amsterdam Utrecht Arnhem was electrified in 1954. time table services will require a locomotive change to continue the journey from Arnhem to Utrecht.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  8. leexiheng#5142

    leexiheng#5142 New Member

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    I love the ICE 1 and 2. How about an ICE T?
     
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  9. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Oberhausen to Köln Makes Sense since it joins with Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr at Duisburg Hbf and Mülheim Styrum. They can also try turning it International that means Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Utrecht Railway. Complex signaling systems DB BR408 International Express train Sleeper train NS BR 193 Freight DB BR189 C-Akv couplers Falnqqs 130 Coal Falrrs Faals Iron Ore Wagons. There's a chain attached to C-Akv couplers DB BR189 when needed to run with Freight wagons DB BR1429 Flirt 3 25kv 50hz 1.5kv DC 15kv
    6.) Introduces ÖBB and can link to Westbahn Salzburg Wien Hbf freight Salzburg Gnigl to Verschiebebahnhof Wien Kledering. Freight runs Rangierbahnhof München Laim to Verschiebebahnhof Salzburg Gnigl.
     
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  10. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I just finished watching the stream as I was busy today with other things to do, and was awe struck at the end when she announced it.
     
  11. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know that. It's sad that Nat is leaving, hopefully, they will find another person to take her place. DTG Natster I wish you all the best Nat, thanks for being the best on stream, and making us laugh, you will be missed. Whatever journey or path you will take, I really wish you the best and success in accomplishing it. :|:(
     
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  12. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Did you attach the wrong image?
     
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  13. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone catch the reason releases are now Tuesdays rather than Thursdays at all)
     
  14. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Those Dev Deep Dives are rather small for standalone articles, but making it a bi-weekly thing where a bunch of these short talks is grouped could work. I agree it doesn't exactly fit Roadmap, but it is definitely worth continuing as its own thing. We don't usually get articles on Friday, so that could be a nice slot before weekend, seeing how things go. Maybe it could even work as a feedback gatherer where devs would like community opinion while in the early stages of development.
     
  15. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Well-Known Member

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    U forget what they said what they would do with the roadmap? They did the same with Luzern-Sursee ''new Swiss route'' so when it closer to release they would add the route and loco's, to not have the same problem with f.e. Sherman hill Track 3. They wil provide us the right info via that way.
     
  16. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Well-Known Member

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    An question that most likely can not be answered for now, but hows the summer update going and when coul we see something. It is still early for teas things but wodering what it could be since its not SoS
     
  17. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    The change to a monthly roadmap will be a blessing. The fortnightly updates and streams have often felt like a forced conversation.
     
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  18. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, so that if patches are required, they have ample time to send these out and look to resolve (apparently)
     
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  19. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    I assume its a one off because the Friday is bank holiday in the UK. A Tuesday release means they can sort any urgent problems on the Wednesday. Alot of people leave work early on Thursday to travel for long weekend
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  20. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Well-Known Member

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    So does this mean trains like the Class 20 Class 47 wont be getting livery editor support?
     
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  21. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Later not now
     
  22. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    The only heavily requested to they actually made was the Harlem Line...well at least SOMETHING Metro North Related
     
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There was an ongoing flood of requests for the Brighton main line, and eventually they built it.
     
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  24. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Some locos may never get livery editor compatibility and that was always the case. At one point it was all mainly synchronised with the other Pres Crew updates but then the two jobs got separate schedules. I would say that the desire to have all existing stock made compatible is still there within DTG but it may not happen on certain stock for some technical (or other) reasons.
     
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  25. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    Some words to the new roadmap presentation. Looks much more interesting than older versions, with a lot of screenshot material, so everybody gets a better impression what's done. Especially the preview of the new Mastery rewards I like most. A flight squadron over Marseille and fireworks, that's really creative and cool.

    A big thank you goes out to Natalie, all the best for the future! Creating board games is certainly a lot of fun and a new part of DTG. ;)
     
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  26. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I hope it will be Cologne-Wupperthal with the National express Br442 and the ICE 2 Br402 or Eifelstrecke with the Br620 and the Br644
     
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  27. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    The German route I want to see more than any other is Mainz to Koblenz along the Rhine Gorge, although at 90km long and with 26 stations it is probably highly unlikely currently.
     
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  28. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Does Matt really believe what he said on stream? They say apparently when your speech is full of 'er or um' close together then you are not confident in what you are saying, and Matt was real guilty of that on stream, just an observation. When JD said 'the time is now for action' I was not confident in the responses.

    Surprised by Nat's announcement, Board Games though? Have to say I have been critical of JD in the past but on stream he came over very well and imo had Matt on the ropes at one point.

    Not enough was said about the preservation routes for my liking but the stream was filled with 'hot air' for the most part. Did anyone notice when it got to Q&A how little time was spent there. Players that care for the game want to have a say and having a stream once a month with just a few questions isn't going to go down well, for me this has to be addressed or I fear it will put people off if it hasn't been already.

    I did find strange that they did mention they will be doing a German route but don't know any more details. Personally I'd rather them say nothing untill they had said details. I suspect it was just 'filler' and they could've said in the future will be doing another US & UK route, means next to nothing imo.

    Interesting they said about leaving a gap to concentrate on fixing things, did anyone catch what timeframe this was in as I seem to have missed it and did they mention anything about Loco DLC? It would be great if we could get our routes flushed out a bit more.

    Overall then, I'd say more 'hot air' They were full of what they can do in the future but just empty promises what they can do now, we will see I suppose.
     
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  29. Daytona

    Daytona Active Member

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    hehe, did Nat escape before she could be the guinee pig for steam locos ? Computerised board games sound like another interesting niche that DTG are so good at discovering - good to see they've got the CATAN franchise for consoles. All the best Nat, thanks for all that you've done.

    Good move on the QA director, I'm sure DTG will work it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No, but Bingen-Koblenz is quite doable.
     
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  31. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    As to the ICE T, Matt has mentioned despite they achieve to make a tilting train, the BR 612, it is a Diesel one.
    But an electric one usually have a panto-graph, - at least the ICE -T , so when the train tilts there will be a problem with the wires above!
    Due to the contact between them does not work properly, according to test they made.
    Surely they will find a solution in the future, but not yet.
     
  32. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For the Wuppertal Koln line are you referring to this post The Missing Link: Köln - Wuppertal (ice 2 And National Express Talent 2) by jolojonasgames. That means DTG can experiment with Merging SKA with RRO using Koln Wuppertal Line to fill in the gap.
    On the other hand Hollandstrecke Duisburg Utrecht solves HRR AI traffic at Duisburg & Mulheim Styrum.
     
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  33. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree with these statements. I'm finding it slightly concerning about the lack of new UK content away from SOS, especially loco DLCs overall. We all have our likes and dislikes, and that's great, but for me, I'd like to see other things away from Spirit of Steam for UK content beforehand to get me excited, especially if SOS is potentially ages away too, all considering when I hold no interest in steam on TSW2 anyway.

    I'm generally disappointed overall for the first edition of the new monthly roadmap, was hoping they'd use such an opportunity for a biggish announcement regarding a completely new route (I don't count 'NEW German route' as such because it doesn't really add anything currently) or a couple extra loco DLCs as it would have been worth the wait. While I do think the BR420 was about the only interesting thing from the roadmap, I do feel all the Horseshoe Curve info felt like it should have been in its own article instead of taking up more space here, while the roadmap didn't seem to be much more different content-wise than the fortnightly one, other than a lengthy section on mastery, which I'm not at all bothered about.
     
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  34. hoagy

    hoagy Member

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    Good luck with the new rôle, Nat :)
     
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  35. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    Crikey I didnt know Nat was leaving as she hasnt been here long and nows shes moving onto board games, well damn, but good luck in your new role Nat
     
  36. trainfan3001

    trainfan3001 Member

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    And 294 Is An Intermodal Train With 6 Axle Power Not A Manifest And 62E is Supposed To Be 65E Also Runs With 6 Axle Power. Road Trains Only Run With 6 Axle Power 4 Axle Power Are Only On Local Jobs Also Noticed A Bunch Of Symbols Were Wrong In The Timetable Try Looking At This Site Herehttps://railroadfan.com/wiki/index.php/NS_Train_Symbols
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
  37. trainfan3001

    trainfan3001 Member

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    Also Noticed The GP38 has the CSX K5LA Horn on the Top and not the Leslie RS3L
     
  38. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I am sick of all apologies and promises for improvement for quality. An additional manager will not help anything. I think the main problem is that QA is completely disconnected from the dev teams there is no dev team. There are separate teams for track laying, signalling and so on. The result is that the most stupid bugs are not seen till QA starts working at the end of the process. I believe most of these issues can be fixed a long time before. The quality problem is not in the QA team but in the way this company works.
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But surely all the teams would work together at the same time when making something. It's simple common sense. But it has been clear that DTG has been dumping tons of bugs to QA when they simply shouldn't be doing that in the first place and try to quell as much issues as possible before sending it to QA. That is simple incompetence
     
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  40. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Same here. Time and time again we have heard their excuses as to why things are going wrong, and they say they will learn and do better next time, yet here we are. In the exact same position.

    As an end user, I don’t need to know, nor care, about DTG’s internal problems and the issues they’re having. I just want a solid core game and as few bugs with DLCs as possible. Better communication couldn’t go amiss either.

    Until anything actually changes and improves, it’s all just talk.

    I’m not angry, but just disappointed as to how DTG has allowed to make such a mess of things.
     
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  41. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I really think that the real reason a full editor won't be release is that DTG would be embarrassed and even working without the full editor then produce good stuff. I remember when Diesel Legends came out a few on the forum or on stream asked why the overhead cables were not removed and DTG said it could not be done but within a week or so modders had it done And DTG changed their story.

    I'm with you at just being disappointed in them. For me I could see TSW2 being the best Train Sim out there but with all the problems there just isn't much between TSW2 and TS1. And with some good Train Sims on the horizon you would thought DTG would up their game a bit.
     
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  42. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Can't agree with this enough. Though I feel the mess was created at the birth of TSW and the issue(s) have just compounded themselves ever since. Moving to TSW 2 was a too much and the work undertaken by the preservation crew highlights this. They're always playing catch-up and will never be on top of issues.
     
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  43. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Well-Known Member

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    The one time in the end of the years streams, where Matt has been asked if they would still have created TSW if they knew what would happen, and he went dead silent for a solid three seconds, speaks enough in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Watch the stream, specifically the bit where Matt spoke about the loco teams developing everything on test track rather than on a real track, and then being surprised when things don't work as expected when put in the live environment.

    It's pretty clear that the dev teams (and even sections within those teams) work in isolation on their own bits, only really coming together much further down the dev line than seems sensible to many. This may be because certain things take longer than others, I don't know it might take 9 months to make a loco and 2 months to lay and configure track etc so it's not possible to create the train on the live track, but surely things should be at the stage where you can drop a train on ANY track and see how it works...
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  45. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Presumably the loco teams thought they were at that point. I'm somewhat struggling to understand why a loco would behave differently on a live track than a test track anyway. Whats it seems to point to, and maybe Matt was alluding to this, is that the teams building a particular route need to carry out a pre QA process before a route is submitted for formal QA so that more of this type of issue is picked up and resolved at an earlier stage.

    This will probably result in a longer overall time to produce a route although I suppose one couyld argue that if there's far fewer things for QA to highlight then the overall time would reduce.
     
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  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Oh I can see why, and can see how it comes about, but it does show that the teams don't (or can't) work together at each step so that they can work towards a common specification

    For me the spec of the track show precede the spec of the train programmatically, but as I say it may take four times as long to create a train than a route for all I know
     
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  47. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    It’s always been pretty apparent that the teams work quite individually, then the end product is almost forced together like Lego. Whilst this isn’t exactly uncommon, the issue lies in the fact that there seems to be very, very little overview or any in-depth look at the end product.

    To be honest, the amount of issues that are very deep seated within TSW, the seeming lack of interest/ability to fix said issues, combined with the very limited scope of DLC (reused stock, very similar types of content/routes/locale/ToC/era[at least from DTG]) does make me wonder about the vision/longevity of TSW.

    You have studios such as Rivet that are producing new rolling stock, and various locales, albeit typically smaller routes with less content, but understandably so considering the size of said studios. Whereas DTG is headed more along the lines of reusing as much content as possible, and making routes as short as possible. Granted you have stuff like Rush Hour and SoS, but these are irregular and overall the more common DLC is usually a rehash of something we have already seen.

    I think that DTG are currently in a place where they are very limited in terms of where they can go with TSW, in terms of technology (various platforms), economy (how can they do more for less) and time (pretty much economy). The more TSW is trying to become, the worse it is getting, but I don’t think DTG are wanting to lose out on the market that they have tapped into with consoles.

    It will be interesting to see where we go after SoS, I suspect that is drawing a huge chunk of resources.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  48. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Pretty depressing but probably realistic based on the evidence.
    I think we realize that, without the consoles market, TSW might not have survived. But you have to think that DTG bit off more than they could chew, given how much of a struggle it's been with the PS and X BOX platforms.
    SoS will be a real challenge, especially for older consoles and older PC's, unless they "dumb it down " which none of us want.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  49. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Active Member

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    DTG would easily survive without consoles if they finally caught up with the times after 13 years of development.
    And that means not new routes and trains, but feature.
    Passengers still don't get on even after the fourth survey (over 2 years) there is still no MP in sight
    Roles - and other features are further than ever.

    You keep asking the community, they prioritize it, and DTG like this: nope.

    DTG is not a newcomer and therefore has different expectations than, for example, SimRail will have in the near future.

    After 13 years of experience, DTG should be able, or rather: must be able to survive, the desires that have been the top priority in the polls for years, which is why the last poll also had the MP (but only roles) no longer included.

    And this year, as I've often written before, we won't see any big leaps in terms of features.
    And as always, no one knows, and one can probably assume, whether it was ever tackled in an early alpha, e.g. a role system. So one has to believe that the forthcoming survey will again come to nothing.
     
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  50. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    If everything gets done individually and then is only put together at the end the most important person is the one who has an overview of all the pieces and co-ordinates. If that person was Matt before he got promoted and is now not being done or is but by someone else, that might explain things a bit.

    Matt often would say I found something and we are looking into it or I will get more information on that next week, but it is not part of his role now to be so hands-on.

    Someone has to have the big picture in-front of them and that person ought to be quite experienced in how things match-up and common issues to look out for that might prevent errors happening when assembling everything.

    It also explains things not lining up properly or mis-behaviours on signals and how trains react to them, these are the interfaces between the different bits.

    If it is like bricks and mortar then DTG need to focus more on the mortar. This is also what happens with the 3rd parties, you can see some are making nice models but the behaviours aren't quite right.
     
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