So I've been exploring the new Harlem Line route that can out yesterday and so far, I'm actually really enjoying it. It's probably for me, the best US route in TSW2 right now, and one that could become even better thanks to what I'm about to share with you. Now what I want to talk about today is regarding a certain service that is missing from this route and that is the New Haven Line services. These services start at Grand Central and travel the Harlem up to the junction just beyond Woodlawn, they they head off to join the NEC at New Rochelle heading in the direction of Stamford and New Haven Right now, it appears to be just a spur of track leading towards an AI runoff, as seen on the map below. …and below is the furthest you can get on this section before reaching the invisible walls. Which is just at the end of a bridge that passes over the Harlem Line. One thing I will say about this area is that you do get a decent view of the route from here. Now lately, I have been taking advantage of a glitch with the game, in which if you press 2 to bring up the boom camera if sitting down in a train, followed by 8 to bring up the free cam (will the train is in a tunnel), you end up spawning outside the map and I have been using this to go off and explore areas of a route that most people wouldn't normally see, and I have using it here to explore areas that haven't be represented, but I have been curious to see what they looked like, such as the lower level platforms at Grand Central or the depot at Highbridge beyond Yankees-East. So picture this, I was using that same camera trick to go and fly all the way to the end of the route to see how much of the section towards Southeast had been represented (PS: It hasn't, and less said about that, the better). When I reached this junction, I thought to myself 'I go have a look down the New Haven Line and see if I can find anything interesting down here', not expecting at first to find much... I couldn't believe what I was about to find here, and I think it's best the let the images do the talking from here... Good view of Wakefield station from here on the left Continue going round the corner. Track sinks below the ground, think the track ends here right? No! It continues on the other side. This is where Mount Vernon East station would be, judging by that massive white block. Continuing on from here... Where the third-rail section ends (even though there is no catenary around here for now) Where Pelham station would be Criss-cross of tracks just beyond Pelham SR signs as we approach New Rochelle Where the New Haven Line joins the NEC, leading us into... …New Rochelle (Nice seeing you again in TSW, even if there is no station building right now, which is surprising considering that one already exists on NEC: New York that could have been placed here as a placeholder). A few sidings just beyond New Rochelle Track ends just here (It's just an AI runoff leading off into the distance). So as you can see, part of the New Haven Line up to New Rochelle has been represented here. Even if it's blocked off and there is barely any scenery to be seen. But still, I'm so glad I have able to find that this exists. But part of new feels like this is here as futureproofing for a future New Haven Line add-on. You see, until I found this, I wasn't particularly sure about adding an New Haven Line add-on to this route. Sure it would help make this route feel a lot more busy, especially around Grand Central, but in this routes current form, I thought it would be kinda pointless to make a whole new train for the sake of what would be at best, a few AI services and maybe the services that stop at Fordham being drivable. But now I've seen this, adding a New Haven Line add-on suddenly sounds possible. Okay, the branch here would be very short, 4.8 Miles (7.7 km) in total along with three new stations and the services it would add would only last about half-an-hour, but it's just long enough to make the New Haven Line services on this route feel worthwhile. On top of this, you would also get the power changeover from third-rail to overhead catenary on this section between Mount Vernon East and Pelham. I actually think this whole branch could be made as a paid extension for this route in the future, coming with the train that does run the services on this route (as that doesn't exist in TSW2 just yet). If I had to guess what that loco would be, it would have to be the M8 as that is the unit that does the services on this part of the route nowadays. Besides, I do remember people mentioning that Matt said in a preview stream for Harlem Line that would people like the see an M8 on this route and feel like with this section secretly hidden, adding it to this route sounds alot more plausible. Plus, I also think it would be cool to have Boston Sprinter have AI Northeast Regional services around New Rochelle, just for a little more traffic around there and maybe as a reference to the previous TSW route set in New Rochelle, NEC: New York. Whether this branch ever get's made accessible, only time will tell, but I think this area will be one to watch going forward and I'm really curious to hear from DTG about this as to why this section has been represented in the first place... because they wouldn't just make this whole section if they were thinking about doing something with it in the future, right???
Perhaps a new haven line dlc will happen in the future. As for why they added those additional tracks is anyone's guess. Seems kinda unnecessary
So I did also go and explore the area beyond Yankees-East and I did discover that the tracks for Highbridge depot have been represented, it's just the building for it doesn't exist. Although this area is used by AI trains that are sometimes stored here, as seen in the images below. But that's pretty much all that's to this section as the tracks end just beyond there. For reference, I have been beyond this point here and I can confirm it is just an AI runoff, so not much can be said here. I do feel like there was a missed opportunity to include Highbridge depot as part of the route, mainly for some extra depot runs. But even if it's not included, I would of liked to have seen it on the map, because right now, the runoff beyond Yankees is incredibly small on the map. It gives the illusion that the tracks end just beyond Yankees, end though as we've seen, that's not the case. It just gives more indication as to when an Hudson Line services is coming in/out of the route, rather than abruptly spawning just metres away from the station.
With these things to me it just says they rushed it out and didn't finish what they wanted to do on time but what do I know. I just don't understand why there are things like this in tsw.
I believe the track is the first thing to be laid when route construction begins and I can well imagine it being done long before the scope of the route is finalised. It could even be the case that the track for this route was laid years ago and the project only just revisited now for completion. You never know. It’s likely to be more relevant to something that happened in the past than anything happening in the future.
This seems the likeliest explanation. Time budget for laying track then reality hits in as to how long all that will take to scenify. Been there, done that in MSTS, Trainz and TS editors. As DTG don't do route extensions, most likely this will remain dormant and unused.
So we might definitely see the New Haven Line, this year. I can't wait when that happen, that maybe the reason why Matt said to post on forum telling them how much we would love to see M8 added. This is going to amazing, which also going to make US Route more fun to play, and more closer to be realistic by adding more layer and service to the game. Once that come out, i am going to be the first to preorder it. So Amazing how you were able to find all these new picture of WIP in game. Now i really can't wait
I didn't necessarily say that it would happen, but rather that it's a possibility going by what was shown here. It is something that I would love to see happen, but whether it will, only time will tell.
There is a reason for this and I remember it coming up during development, but I can't remember what the reason was. At the end of the day there is no M8, so those tracks will be barren unless there's some sort of route extension in the future.
Don't get your hopes up, especially for this year, but i DO think Matt's comments about the M8 combined with this track section, and some other things is a little interesting. Considering the track and scenery are complete from NYP to New Rochelle (from the late NEC:NY route), and track from Woodlawn to New Rochelle is at least started on Harlem line, I wonder if a partial ressurection of the NEC is in the works? They could ditch the portion from Newark Liberty if needed, and just run from NYP to New Haven. New trains would be the Amtrak Acela Express (which would layer onto Boston), and the MNRR M8 (which would layer onto Harlem). It's 74 miles from GCT to New Haven, which is a bit longer than the usual, but considering significant work has been done already...it might be feasible. It would NOT be an extension, but kinda be similar to the relationship between BML/ECW. So, you'd still have to go to the menu to switch from NH to Harlem services, but there would be appropriate AI traffic on both routes. It's pretty ambitious tbf, but layering is REALLY paltry on US Routes compared to UK/DE and this would go a long way towards rectifying that.
I seriously doubt the tracks mean a future extension is coming - though do really believe extensions should be made. It does beg the question though as to why leave so much stuff in the route when it cannot be used legitimately.
They did this in Dresden Riesa as an Easter Egg to hint at Tharandter Rampe. It's possible that this might hint at a future DLC just like how they copied the tiles from the Dresden area for the other route. It's a no brainer considering it's one of the handful of possibilities available for a US commuter route with catenary and the power switchover is something unique, so I personally think it's a matter of time before we see the New Haven represented in game. That's also not mentioning that they already did the whole line in TS1 so most of the research is done and they can just copy and paste the tiles in Grand Central and Manhattan. What did surprise me was the inclusion of Highbridge Facility. This goes to show that with extra time, this route could have been so much more. I would have loved to do some shunting in that yard, and considering it's a major storage facility for the railroad, it was a huge missed opportunity.
Interesting and I can see this happen in the future Harlem Line combined with Northeast Corridor Newark Airport New Haven 84 mi and LIRR New York City Regional commuter bundle German language version Nahverkehr New York. If you are wondering M8 is the American equivalent to Class 387/2 which means if you own New Haven line and Brighton Main Line you can see which one of them is the faster third rail overhead wires emu.
If the track is there, adding scenery to it should be doable - basically Meißen branch all over again. DRA branches were finishable, because the track was laid, so it wasn't an extension. The same could be done here - with an M8 as a loco add-on they could finish the scenery for the section to New Rochelle. I wouldn't mind buying a new EMU with new stations and service layer, it would definitely enrich this route, which so far is mostly A-B with an afterthought station to the left. This could possibly also add a new option for loco add-ons in general. Have track laid for more than the route itself and finish it as part of the loco add-on making the route generally larger in more steps while also making loco add-ons more attractive. It would probably walk a thin line of the route DLC being an unfinished product, but if they sell me a complete line and loco add-on brings in extra stuff, why not?
Given the padding on some services (I just arrived in White Plains 7 minutes early on a NB express service from 125th Street) Im wondering if the timetable has been future proofed and theres hidden layers in the timetable for New Rochelle line services? Complete guess but how mad an idea is it that the big summer update is route mergers and we are going to see the New Rochelle Line released (possibly modelling the lower level of GCT?) with the ability that owners of both routes can merge them into one and that we could step off a service at Woodlawn from White Plains and take over a service to New Rochelle?
Right- that would be amazing! I'd even be ok with a brief loading interlude. They could even dress it up with a little cinematic or something- think of the viewpoints in ATS, if you're familiar- could give you a little tour of the "junction location" while it loads in the rest of the route. The key is keeping the time of day and weather settings, IMO. Anything more would really be a bonus- i doubt the current dispatcher could handle keeping the "current state" from one route to the next, but maybe they've finally cracked an improvement? Even if it had to load the default AI train locations based on time of day, I think most players would be cool with that, especially if it was completely optional, and you could continue to play the "unmerged" individual routes if you chose.
"Just adding scenery" is the hard part. Track is much easier. Meißen was eventually finished and included precisely because all the built scenery had been done- that is a LOT of bespoke building assets, and they certainly weren't made in two weeks.
Newark Airport to New Haven, CT is 84 mi 135 km if done in 2022 setting Avelia Liberty & Acela High-Speed Trains Boston Providence will need Viewliner IIs for Lake Shore Limited seen as the double formation ACS-64 Twilight Shoreliner trains 66/67.
Good find. I am wondering if this was done by the auto scenery tool they use. They don't mention that anymore as I think, it doesn't work as good as it should. They should take a look at MSFT's photo realistic tech used in FS and now StarField, to see if they can convert it for TSW2, Probably will make their job easier, atleast with the distant scenery.
You know that with Unofficial Editor you can add scenery on that part, even full working train stations With timetable creation tool in Unofficial editor you can create scenarios with train goes there - you will need out of bounds mod if there is hidden trigger. Sure all that will require some work but it can be done
I didn't say it would be easy, but doable because the track is there. If I understood the Meißen situation correctly, that's what separates route extensions (currently not doable) from this. In this case, it is 7km of scenery and the very end of it has been done before, so the assets exist. I see that as plausible to be finished if M8 comes.
I have mention this before in another thread as well, but its unlikely that they will use that tech. I really do want them to, as well as the Live Weather Feature In MFS, but hopefully when they do add the dynamic weather, there will also be a live real time weather as well.
Now I want to come back here to show off the last area of interesting that wasn't included as part of this route that debatably should off and that is the downstairs platforms at Grand Central Terminal. Now this was the area where I was able to get the camera outside the route boundaries, allowing me to go and explore areas of this route that wouldn't be normally accessible, which lead to the New Haven line discovery (The whole roof of Grand Central Terminal is clip-through anyways, so the camera glitch that I have been taking advantage off doesn't matter here anyways). But regardless, the downstairs portion of Grand Central was first area that I wanted to see when first doing this whole thing and what I found was... …Well, to be honest, I wasn't expect to see both levels of Grand Central Terminal represented on this route anyways, and at the end of the day, at least the more interesting level was represented (the upstairs level). But you know what I was expecting? At the very least, that the downstairs platforms would have all the tracks laid out of it. Turns out that was not the case as the tracks going towards downstairs just lead to a massive AI runoff. Now I will say that you can access the tracks going down towards downstairs, but here my advice... …I do not recommend that anyone actually does this! The reason for this is simple, it is pitch black down there and the torch feature won't help you much down there, as you will see from the images below. What you will find is the massive, dark, empty room with nothing in it. A Floating signal You eventually come up against a massive wall, which is the boundary of which you can access. Looking back towards the ramp. Now this room does have a floor, but if you try to go on it to access another track on foot... …you end up falling through and into the endless void. Now one last thing I want to bring here is the fact that it was said that AI trains do go down here and I can confirm that, from doing a pdf timetable from this route, that is true, that a few AI trains do go down there, but would you like to know how many trains actually go down there on this route, as of right now?... …3 …and all of those services come from the Hudson Line part of the route. The first is a M3A service that comes down here at 9:24 (after making a stop at Yankees at around 9:06, funnily enough) and remerges at 9:59 as a service heading towards Croton-Harmon. The second is a M7A that actually comes out of Highbridge Yard at 16:21 and goes down there at 16:40, before remerging at 17:24 as a service bound for Greystone The third is another M7A that actually comes in as deadset train (empty stock move) which goes down there at 18:53, before remerging at 19:29 as another Greystone bound service. There's a chance that there might be more that I missed, but that's all the ones that I could find for now, but I think this shows why DTG didn't bother with the downstairs as it wouldn't have been used much in the first place as the grand majority of the services on the route go to the upstairs platforms anyways (although saying that, if the New Haven part does ever get made in the future, I could see this section get much more usage, mainly for M8 services that don't stop anywhere other than the first two stops on this route, Grand Central and Harlem-125th Street). I would have be nice to have seen the downstairs get made for this route, and maybe if we do come back here in the future (as part of a future route) we might see this section get opened up, but I don't think we will ever see this area get made on this route any time soon as like I said, the tracks for it don't exist at the moment and trying to make them right now would require a route extension of some sort, which probably isn't possible right now at this moment. Although when we do have a route that does feature both platforms levels of Grand Central Terminal, have fun trying to work out how it looks on a map, that's probably going to be fun trying to work that out.
What Id love to see is either the Hudson Or New Haven (and Beyond) lines released as standalone DLC utilising the lower level. Then a further DLC (priced at the New Journey Price Point) which mergers then both together with a new timetable.
Best value for New Haven line is making it as NEC Newark, NJ to New Haven, CT that way we get Grand Central Terminal lower level New Haven line New Haven line Penn Station Access NJCL NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line Northeast Corridor Morris & Essex lines montclair-boonton line to Penn Station with M8 Multilevel III can spawn with Multilevel I & II cab cars Avelia Liberty ALP-46A ALP-45DP. Distance is 84 miles combines both TS22 NEC New Haven NYC with TSW 2020 Newark Airport to New Rochelle NEC NY route. Boston-Providence layers Acela Express (which is frequently mentioned here in the forums with DB BR411 ICE-T & BML Class 700) and ACS-64.
I don't think there will ever be an expansion to New Rochelle. Almost the same problem exists on the Southeastern Highspeed route with the Shernees branch line. I also thought that after the release of Southeastern Highspeed the expansion would come soon but until now there is no information about it. Although there is already a bit of track... Nothing else can be seen on the map but a few switches for the junctions... But the real tracks go much further...Here the Junction for the Sherness Branch Line Junction for Trains to Rochester and Sittingbourne If you go further, you will reach Kemsley Station (wich in the TSW2 World have no Plattforms or Station Buildings) If you continue to follow the route the surrounding buildings ends but the Tracks are still there... But short before reaching Swale the Tracks end in nowhere... I see that shortly after Release of the Route but as the days go by, I don't think there will ever be an Expansion. Just like with the Harlem Line...
The situation is a bit different - trackage (and signalling I guess) is done all the way to New Rochelle. The route element is ready, but the scenery would need to be done, therefore not exactly an expansion. Here however you have pretty much nothing and would need to build it from the ground up. That New Haven line bit is something like Meißen or Dresden Flughafen - the route exists but is unfinished (Meißen later got finished as we know, but it wasn't an expansion).
There's one key difference though, Meißen was explicitly stated to be a part of the route at one point, and there was a lot of outrage about its removal. Frankly DTG needed a PR win after that controversy. so building the one branch which was extremely far along anyway was a good way to do just that. The New Haven Line was never promised for Harlem, and the route hasn't had any big controversies like Riesa did. And frankly unless there's a big hoopla over something DTG are unlikely to improve products. Even small things like the Clinchfield horn fix take forever to do, they're not gonna build a new portion of a route when there's no real reason to. Frankly if anything happens with it I think it would be far more likely to end up as a new standalone route, completely divorced from the Harlem Line project.
Frankly it would indeed make more sense to have the new haven line as a standalone seperate dlc. It wouldn't make sense to make an extension to new rochelle in which no new haven line trains terminate anyways and how short local services would be since they would only have to stop at 5 stations, (Harlem, Fordham, Mount Vernon East, Pelham and New Rochelle) the stations aren't a long distance from each other making services extremely short. Heck express trains only stop at harlem before running express to Stamford and then they run local to New Haven. A New Haven line DLC from GCT to New Haven Union station would be much better and have more value instead of a small extension to new rochelle just to add an additional train for the sake of more traffic from woodlawn to gct
I think we're more likely to see Track 3 on Sherman Hill than the New Haven Line. Matt even said on the Sherman Hill streams that the track and signalling was setup on that line in case a situation ever arose that they go back and complete it but he said it's extremely unlikely to ever happen. The Harlem line had everything in it that was advertised, it is a complete product. Don't get your hopes up that DTG will add the New Haven Line as you'll only end up disappointing yourself. Riesa - Dresden was a different situation, they mentioned branch lines on announcement of Rush Hour and later tried to cut them while at the same time raising the price. Meißen was already well into development and they decided to finish it off.
New Haven might not be likely as a extension, but as I stated earlier I think it could be done as part of a separate route. DTG already did the New Haven line back in TS Classic, and NEC: New York went to New Rochelle, so they already have some assets for such a project. I don't see though how they could repurpose track 3 though, I feel it would be a tough sell as a separate route, and that line's way too long to be done as a free upgrade.
If DTG are feeling generous, it could come with a loco DLC. The more realistic (though still not realistic) option would be a gameplay pack along the lines of DLoGW or New Journeys - a new timetable coming with access to a now finished track 3.
With track 3, the whole line has been laid plus all the signalling is done on it. The only thing that needs to be done is the time consuming part of properly landscaping it and the scenery. Matt’s said on stream that it wasn’t deleted from the Sherman Hill route in case of the extremely unlikely event that they go back and finish it off. It’s not happening anytime soon if at all but it’ll still be there if they do decide to come back to it in the future. I can’t imagine DTG doing track 3 as a separate route when the whole line exists in the Sherman Hill route. Maybe completing it as part of a loco DLC and have track 3 included in a patch like they did with DRA but have the timetable services that utilise it as part of the DLC.
That would be a lot more effort than they've put into any other loco DLC, track 3's I think 20 something miles long, and there's a lot of standalone routes which are shorter than that. If Rivet charge $25 for something as short as Isle of Wight, I don't see DTG basically charging $20 for something quadruple that length, even if the trackage is complete.
