Train Sim World 2 - Roadmap Update 5th April 2022

Its not really about survival, we don’t really know if DTG needed to launch a new IP to stay afloat, the fact is that TSW would probably be worthless without the console market.

DTG have already said that one of the main reasons for TSW was that TSX’ engine cannot sustain continuous modernisation updates, it’s pretty much as far as it can go, apart from adding new DLC to it.

TSW probably wouldn’t survive only on PC, it’s really not in an acceptable place to compete with TSX, TSW is great at looking pretty and pressing buttons, but not so much for an immersive simulation, which is why TSX still holds the majority of PC users.

That’s pretty much the point I was making above, I could see TSW being dropped if it had never released on console, but with how well it’s done financially (I’m assuming) on console, DTG probably aren’t willing to abandon that market.

The unfortunate fact is that we are very likely in a place nearing TSX, I’m not sure how much more DTG can do with the core of TSW, all things considered at the current time.

 

“Bit off more than they can chew” is pretty much the running theme with DTG’s big projects, If rush hour was only one route with rush hour in mind, how much better would it be?

For me Boston Sprinter felt like the beta for RH, with DRA being their first attempt at a real network ultimately failing, and BML being the end goal, but even that has examples of not enough time left, and frankly not having the passengers to this day, proves that they should not have tackled all 3 routes so quickly.

Personally I fully understand not being able to achieve such a huge task, so I don’t get why DTG thought they would be able to hit their goals with RH. I fear the same will happen with steam, they are trying to do too much, going too far, too quickly.

Personally I’ll be happy when we can get back to the old routine of releasing a new route with current tech in mind, with a new train, decent length & timetable with an outlook of loco DLC. I just have no confidence in these huge projects.

 

Have to disagree with that. From what I've played of Train Sim vs TSW, I would call TSW more immersive. Not just in being able to walk around the train and outside, but most buttons in the cab actually work in TSW. And I'd argue looking "pretty" is a pretty big thing for immersion (more detailed models and sceneries).

I assume Train Sim is the more popular one because it has a huge catalog of content (with the caveat of varying quality), 3rd party devs making content that Dovetail doesn't, and I would assume the system requirements are more friendly for older computers than TSW.

 

I do actually tend to agree with that. I splashed out on West Highland South and the Shasta route for TS Classic in recent sales. The latter in particular is very good, yet I still find myself drawn back into TSW. The TS experience just seems a bit shallow. Well perhaps that's a bit harsh but no all day timetable, no walking around in first person view, in many cases no opening doors or windows on the traction unit cabs. The advantage is being able to save each scenario you choose to run and of course resume with greater reliability and of course a decent scenario editor if you want to take a crack at your own activity. Also of course great routes like WCML North/Over Shap, Woodhead, Port Road etc. The lighting and sounds are much better in Classic too.

Nevertheless and I suppose my point is, it wouldn't take DTG too much if they put their minds to it, to make TSW the constant preference when deciding where to drive.

 

I do agree with most of your points, and of course immersion is an individuals perspective, perhaps I used the term immersion to broadly, but overall I think you get a much better feel of a Railway in TS, just in terms of the routes being represented more fully, and whilst that isn’t always the case with DTG’s content (after all their shortcomings didn’t start with TSW content), you just have more studios and individuals propping that content up, something which will never truly translate to TSW.

I think TSW is a testament to the phrase “graphics aren’t everything”.

IMO TSW will forever be a collection of disconnected routes, that will be snippets of their IRL counterparts, and the general scope of what we see now, is what we will always get.

 

I don't want to sound too critical of TS, I do like it since it has a lot of content/things I wish would come to TSW as well, longer routes being one of them. But as someone who played TSW first, I can't help that Train Sim feels rather dated/less immersive in comparison in many other areas. I just think that what can be done in TS, can ultimately be done in TSW as well, if they put their "heart" and money in to it. TSW does have a good base/concept to build from, but it needs more QA and good 3rd party developers.

 

And yet TS1 survived without the consoles and with TSW2 the PC is the best individual market for DTG but they like to group all the consoles together to make it fit their narrative.

The sales are hugely better on the old gen consoles than the new ones and this will change significantly this year I reckon. I'm guessing the sales were better on the old gen PS than the old gen Xbox but surely the writing is on the wall for them. As people 'find' next gen consoles people will leave the old gen.

But saying that their is still the huge problems with TSW2 on next gen which don't seem to be being fixed anytime soon. PS5 having to delete routes, Xbox series X Sound issues and with the Xbox series S with the memory issues. I think it is wrong to suggest that DTG would be worthless without the consoles as without addressing the pressing issues in the game at the moment for all the platforms (including PC) DTG might be worthless soon even with the consoles.

 

TS is far cheaper to produce content for.

 

And TSW2 would be far cheaper to produce for the PC than the consoles. I maybe wrong here but I thought the if you want to sell a game on the consoles you had to pay a fee to be able to do so, this fee is huge as well. It would be interesting to know what platform yields the most profit.

 

You could make the same point for Steam VS Epic, the point is that they are one platform, and narrative doesn’t really matter, the point is that between Xbox and PlayStation, it’s a majority of players, even split it’s an even share between PC/Xbox/PS the ‘best’ market it most likely only so by a negligible amount that probably skews between the 3 from time to time.

In any case it’s all irrelevant, cause TSW is here on console, it’s making the most money from console, and DTG aren’t going to let that go.

TS1 survived because it’s from a time when such titles weren’t possible on console, and over the years it’s bought a lot of loyalty and a huge library, it is the definitive train simulation. The release of TSW only proves that it’ll be very, very hard to move people away from it.

The only thing I believe, is that TSW won’t be the successor to TSX, despite what DTG set out to do.

 

You are quite the natural at stating claims for which you do not have supporting evidence.

Again, the way you write about DTG makes one think you believe them to be some sort of scheming entity who has some ulterior motive to generating maximum profit.

Cheers

 

Try thinking about it, I'm not saying it shouldn't be on consoles I'm just saying it is more expensive certainly in the short term. Of course DTG always make things suit their narrative, you really think not? They are a business and so out to make profit, all businesses that want to make a profit have their own narrative, it is upto the consumer to sift through this.

Certaind companies do this more than others which is true but they all do it, if DTG didn't we would know everything that is going on behind the scenes which is never going to happen.

 

If 67% of the sales are on console though they have trebled their revenue, so even if the consoles come with costs its hard to see the cost being higher than the benefit.

 

Given the sales numbers, it's quite obvious that consoles are not holding back PC development but it's actually the other way round. And then bearing in mind that the overall console market is about 10-15 times bigger that the PC one there is only one solution on hand...

If a platform was about to be dropped, the only reasonable way would be PC, not any of the consoles.
In this case the existing majority of players would benefit of the benefits that would come into being - and the gates to a much bigger market would be wide open.

Or we just keep things the way they are...

 

So getting rid of the biggest individual platform would be a good move? hahahaha. I don't see how the other players would benefit when the majority of testing is on the PC and to add to the fact that it isn't the PC that is causing the problems, it is the consoles where the serious problems lie and if DTG dropped the consoles then those issues would disappear no?

But that will never happen and nor do I want it to and I'm sure DTG do not either But DTG will have to make a decision about the old gen some time but not yet due to sales.

 

Simulators are a penny a dozen on PC. There's very few on Console and TSW in whatever guise is the only one for Console. That's one of its unique selling points. They won't get rid of Console but PC could very well be dropped one day.

 

Do you think there might be a reason as to why simulators are common on the PC? It wasn't long ago people were saying that the PC market was dead and then we had the PC market the biggest growing games market.

I can never see the PC being dropped as it is so versatile or the console either.

 

I so agree. I used to do what we called Service Delivery Testing when all the elements were put together in a live like environment. Despite all the elements working perfectly in isolation, it’s amazing what problems were found when we ran the whole thing as live.

 

If you look at your comment you are stating the exact reason TSW need console to survive: train simulators are very common on PC so TSW would struggle to compete, even though I think it is the superior train simulator.

 

In business theory, yes maybe. In practical action, dtg will loosing me as a customer forever. From my ts & tsw dlc history you can buy a bmw car.

For serious, if pc would be dropped, dtg gets my lifetime guarantee of not spending one further cent on their company.

 

If they Drop PC, I BET THERE is Definitely going to be a riot, myself included, so i really also cannot this happen, but if they did get ready for us to get a pitchfork and torch ready.

 

All that I remember about this PC and console topic, is the one time it's mentioned in the end of the year Q&A. There (I think) Matt said it's about 60/40 console to PC ratio in sales and player numbers. So dropping either side would be a very stupid idea.

 

As a PC player, If support was dropped or reduced for PC, I would not give Dovetail any more money for TSW. I would switch to TS Classic as my main sim and give them money instead.

 

TS Classic is Dovetail…

Also DTG aren’t dropping console or PC so let’s all stop getting worked up.

 

Not at the moment no, not even DTG are daft enough to do that but saying that if the next gen of consoles pick up and old gen consoles suffer as a result do you actually think DTG will stick by the old gen?

I have no strong opinion either way I'm just guessing what DTG might do going forward.

 

Old gen consoles are old gen for a reason... If new gen consoles pick up and the sales of DLC become predominantly on new gen then I see no reason for DTG to spend more dev time trying to get old tech working (and they do spend MORE time getting it working, because they build on PC and have to pare it back for old consoles)

 

I mean it’s inevitable that last gen consoles will get dropped, but even the 360/PS3 got some pretty heavy titles towards their ends, so I think we are a year or two out, at least, from such discussions.

Many people will make the generation leap over the next few years, and even if they don’t, at some point Sony & Microsoft will force all devs hands anyway.

But in any case I’m referring to consoles as all of them, both generations are an income stream.

 

I could see it start happening this Xmas only if next gen sales pick up of course.

Referring to consoles as 'all of them' is not telling the whole story though is it? The PC has now a couple of platforms, Steam and Epic but it is the same game whereas on the consoles there are more and more differences between the old and new gen and this will only continue imo.

 

Steam and Epic are stores not platforms...

The equivalent would be if DTG had to create a version that was configured for an old processor with an old GPU and old (and not much) RAM. Something like the PC I'm running

 

Yeah I agree I was just trying to give a comparison in a loose way.

 

Could've just said "just like not all PCs are alike" I guess?

I doubt anyone's really programming for a 486 nowadays

 

That's a point, would TSW2 run on a mac?

 

In an emulator, quite probably. Don't think it runs in MacOS.
You can get Macs with intel "innards" so certainly the command set would be there

 

An emulator isn't necessary unless we're talking about old PowerPC Macs or newer ARM Macs. A compatibility layer like Wine would be enough, though Wine support on most recent versions of MacOS is lacking, especially for Steam games.

Cheers

 

Intel Macs are a dead product, the only ones you can buy new are a really bad i5 Mac mini and a massively expensive Xeon Mac pro - both of which will disappear from sale this year. Both _can_ run Windows, but the mini doesn't it very badly, and the pro does it very expensively.

I'm massively invested in the Mac ecosystem for both my day-job and hobby music making, but still have a Windows PC for gaming.

 

What‘s the next new German Route?

 

Wait till the next roadmap

 

Well they said the roadmap would no longer be the medium on which details of new routes would be announced and that details of these would be in standalone articles so it's a very valid question on when details will be announced.

 

Well they might put the name of the route to the roadmap

 

That's kinda announcing details isn't it, I mean most route names give a clue on where they atleast run from

 

Yet the very fact of the "German route" was announced in the last roadmap.

 

Unless it's all going pear shaped I really don't see the harm in releasing a bit more information, regardless of whether in a stream, an article or forum woffle!

 

Which is why I believe if dtg don't have any news to share, don't announce it. This whole mentality of announcing something that you can't even talk or won't talk about is pointless and frankly stupid. If a person has nothing to say, then you don't say anything. Simple common sense.

 

Anyone else see the 0-6-0 British engine in the article. It was on a trailer. I think it is a hint to the next steam route or add on.

 

You mean the fowler? This was confirmed as part of the west somerset mastery. I remembern in a stream on the christmas special. The loco is a static ts model.

But: you could be right maybe its also a hint for a loco dlc they might plan. Would be very interested in that.

 

A Fowler 4F would be right at home on an eventual S&D too.

 

2h before the roadmap there more likely will be an article, they did the same by Luzern-Sursee. Let's wait and see

 

It was only a low-detailed model so don't get your hopes up. Sadly it won't come soon

 

I hope we’ll see another MBta route with the Hsp46 locomotive with the bilevel coach’s like the Worcester/Framingham line or the Haverhill line.

 

We know it won't come soon, but could be an real early hint.