More Focus On Improving Sounds Please

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Mar 17, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    They are so fixated on Scouse Steam, I think everything else has been swept under the carpet.

    We have this thread, we have the "Niggles" thread, plus various other issues highlighted here or in Technical Reports all of which are valid feedback and not in any way shape or form "whinging". I know they may not be able to respond personally to every individual report but compared to the involvement of the various "public" DTG figures when I first joined this forum, it's almost as if there's a new policy of keeping a distance from the user base - other than the stage managed and regulated "streams".
     
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  2. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    In fairness, it is the weekend
     
  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes but some of these threads have been running for a while.
    The whole point in having an “in house” company provided forum is to facilitate polite interaction with the team and to save them having to trawl round various third party media to garner peoples opinion (if they even care to do so ). Otherwise we might as well go back to discussing on UKTS, Trainsim dot com or the ATS FB page!
     
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  4. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    No you are correct and i 100% agree with you, they are slacking of when it comes to realistic train sound and this is why i am trying to get their attention, but it's not working. It seems to me that they just don't care about getting the sound right and instead focus on the train itself rather than the sound which is crazy, you can't create a train without the proper realistic correct sound.
     
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  5. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I also try creating a new thread as well for the past few month, regarding DTG Sound, and still they haven't respond at all to any of my thread. I did try but its look like they just don't want to listen to us. I have a bad feeling that the upcoming steam train is going to encounter this problem as well, and not giving us the realistic track sound for the steam train as well. i hope thats not going to be the case, but as of where things are going right now, it looks like this will be the case again. :|:(
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Let's just hope they don't base them on the old Kuju MSTS jointed track sound, which was like someone hitting an anvil then slowed down by 50%!
     
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  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I fear that this is going to be the 'new new'.

    Each year, DTG will come up with a 'theme', draining resources for other projects, as well as fixing current issues and improving the core game. Last year it was Rush Hour, and this year it seems it is Spirit of Steam.

    I'm hoping to be proven wrong, with whatever this upcoming 'announcement' is supposed to be about on Tuesday, as these 'themes' clearly aren't the way forward.
     
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  8. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Made a suggestion now to patch at least the 313, 377 and 387. Those trains have existing flange sounds on older dlcs, so i see little effort for dtg in this.
     
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Guys, the BML 377, 387 and the 313 all have flange wheel sound recordings in their internal folders.

    As per usual, its just DTG not setting these sounds up correctly (or at all)

    upload_2022-4-3_22-46-26.png
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Why am I not surprised.
     
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  11. StenioBlackHawnk

    StenioBlackHawnk Active Member

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    Where's bescot to the rescue?
     
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  12. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Im not surprised either. Well maybe today we get an answer from them after the turbulent discussion going on in this thread.
     
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  13. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me started! Trying to work the sounds on the class 150 currently. There's 3 different versions of sounds like the project was abandoned and changed several times. There's actually flange and brake rub sounds in the Pak but the sounds we hear instead are actually wagon squeals from the spg route, called from the DTG/core folder. It beggars belief to be honest. I'm trying to get the 150 to use more suited sounds. So far my progress on this project is on TSC, but even then, you'll have to put up with flange on the Sprinter sounding like a trollybus until I can fix it.
     
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  14. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to say stick to TS2020xx for realism but in all honesty that is the case, a much more rounded way of scripting a train; an old engine like that can still capture the essence of Train Simulation. Is TSW actually a simulator or a Game trying to be a simulator.
    I rarely post here but I've trawled through the thread and what londonmidland has been and is trying to do is falling on deaf ears at best, authenticity is key to immersion. This is why TS2021 and OMSI are still going....
     
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough, I was thinking about OMSI Bus Simulator the other day…

    It’s a fantastic game, thanks to the quality, highly detailed and immersive add-ons the game offers. This is because some of these add-ons are made by actual bus enthusiasts, who have genuine interest in the product and aren’t just making it for a quick buck. From features, texture quality, the bus model itself, and last but not least, the sounds.

    Next, functionality. A working true-to-life ticket operating machine. You even have to log in with a code and pass code, as per real life. The timetable can be found on a paper display, which is very helpful and much more realistic compared to a pop-up menu.

    A lot of work is put into these add-ons, and this is what makes players continuously come back to play the game. Despite its ageing graphical engine, it still shows that all of the above is still possible. There really are no excuses.

    Then we have Bus Simulator…
    At first glance, it looks great with its updated graphics, thanks to it running on UE4. However, that’s where things go downhill when we look into other areas…

    Firstly, fantastic bus models, as per OMSI. However, the physics are very, very dubious. Often feeling like a go-kart. Sounds are often recycled too from other buses. The game is riddled with day one bugs, with various graphical glitches too. There’s no proper ticketing system, as per OMSI.

    If I were to put all four games into a category, it’d be:

    Realistic:
    - Train Simulator
    - OMSI

    Fun/Casual:
    - TSW
    - Bus Simulator
     
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  16. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    The problem as I perceive it is that the prof has never figured out the importance of sounds when Sam talked about it in streams you can tell the profs heart isn't in it by the half-hearted responses, and the prof is leading the whole caboodle. And unfortunately for us, the audio capabilities of Unreal are kak compared to TS classic.
     
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  17. nhilsubsolenovum

    nhilsubsolenovum Active Member

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    Perhaps the fella in the pink headphones is hearing it differently to the rest of us. I want a pair if so.
     
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  18. 6201_andy

    6201_andy New Member

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    I've pointed out before on forums that the 313 and 314 have a very loud air escape sound when the brakes are released (clearly audible on the TS2021 versions), but I'm not sure if much gets through to the DTG developers. The sound seems to be there because you can hear it on the outside camera with the volume up so I wonder if it can be made properly audible - outside and in cab as per reality. There are two benefits - realism because as driver of heritage stock it indicates a problem when you don't hear the release, and playability - you move a lever and it makes an decent noise rather than a dull clunk. It seems like fairly easy fix - they even managed it on the 150...
     
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I will say, TSW definitely does sound better in headphones. I suspect that the sound mix is done that way, and not optimized for computer speakers (the way that, back in the day, singles were optimized for AM radio)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  20. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Fully agree. In the beginning I was more focused on the sound of some trains having ridiculous loop cut offs but there is more to sound than the train alone. It's correct that adding more NPC's without extra noise is visual clutter and TSW already needs way more NPC's to make the world come to life. Both need to be looked after to make the world feel more alive.
     
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  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. High-end 'phones are the only way I listen to TSW (currently Arctic Steel Series). I have good speakers, too, but I never use them for gaming.
    (Partly so my wife can't complain about the noise by boxing my ears :D).
     
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  22. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Well-Known Member

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    Where is that NPC train, and what does it look like ?
    I have every DLC for TWS and I have no idea what that train look like or where I can find it
     
  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're not joking.
    An NPC is a Non player character, not controlled by the player or AI.
     
  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, but then the double edged sword comes into play...
    "Put your bleddy headphones on, too much train noise."
    "Okay dear..."
    A few minutes later.
    "You didn't hear a word I just said, did you? Deaf twit." Possibly replacing twit with a word which has the same consonants but two back in the vowels!
     
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  25. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the wireless ones? I have the Artis Pro wireless and while they sound very good and you have complete freedom I always wonder if the wired ones would give better sound/Bass.

    hahahaha. Know what you mean. I could be fully engrossed with something on my PC (alas not TSW2) then my Missus would have a complete conservation behind my back then catch my view and expect me to give an answer to this unheard conversation, lol.
     
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  26. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue today is when OMSI was released, Steam was in its infancy, now it’s anyone with some coding experience making a game, whereas the guys behind OMSI and the likes of Kuju, understood a simulator needed to have an editor to allow for user made creations as it was a virtual model railroad, bus simulation was never explored until M&R (Original devs for OMSI) jumped into that realm.

    But we have TS202xxx and possibly SimRail. Unity does offer more of a indepth scripting like what we’re used to. We shall see
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue today is that people want some random people to create content and then cobble things together as best they can no matter that this will exclude 60-70% of the player base who simply cannot access that content.
    Fine for the PC content where you can basically do what you want with the front, back and middle of everything just by swapping files, but what about the xbox?
    Fine this is the "PC discussion" forum but still...

    End lets not forget that there is ZERO recourse for the end user if a third party breaks your install, removes access to a paid for DLC, changes said DLC so it's unusable without their other DLC, orphans a timetable or scenario. Oh, and also the chance the dev may die so if you want to get back that DLC you lost? No chance
    All of the above have happened to me around TSC DLC in the last few years

    And of course, DTG can insist you remove all mods and 3rd party DLC before giving you any assistance whatsoever.

    The modding scene isn't a panacea, and it has as many problems as main developers do.
     
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  28. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I would say probably more because they do not have all the tools and are starting from a point of 'catch up' but what the modding scene does offer is the chance to transform games, there are just too many to list but just look at Fallout 4. The game would have died years ago if it wasn't for the modding scene.

    Lets say DTG released a DLC route and it proved to be dull and but then the modders improved the route (like they are doing now without the tools) to make it enjoyable again, isn't that a 'panacea' for that route?
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And then five years down the line when you need all that modders content for the DLC to work as it used to, or even better the modder disappears and you have no support for the mod at all, orphaning everything else you've had for that DLC?

    So, no
     
  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I've never used any of the mods on the forum for the reasons you mention.
    I certainly acknowledge the skill and creativity of those who make them, but not for me.
    Besides, I don't think players should need to use mods to bring routes to a standard that the developers should have achieved in the first place.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Many of the mods I've seen don't do that anyway. Better than it was perhaps, but still
     
  32. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    i think something needs figuring out as to why the sounds in the cab are so attenuated,

    and why things like when the air compressor in the BR112 is running, it can not be heard in the cab, but it can be heard if you switch to an outside view.

    Same with flange squeal sounds, in cab ones in the BR112 are horrible at times, a badly looped squeak... a sound that should play once at say pointwork, but is looped over and over sounding totally crap.
    yet switch to the outside camera and you can hear a more realistic squeal when going round a tight curve.

    First thing i do when i load up the BR112 is open the windows and cab and engine room doors, makes it a little louder, but we still don't get all the sounds that are actually playing outside heard inside.

    I play with a 7.1 surround sound AV amp set up most of the time, yet pretend surround sound in cheap headphones can sound better!
     
  33. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Now that's how a train suppose to sound like ;):D:cool:
     
  34. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    So all modders are going to disappear? If I had the chance of playing a route that was modded that was enhanced over the original even for a short time I would rather that than a route that doesn't function properly and that modded route route might be free so no loss. Not all mods have to be massive to make a difference either.

    So, yeah.
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Your question was "isn't that a panacea for the route", so no
     
  36. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Er, you said about the panacea first I think and imo, Yeah baby!
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I've probably said about a lot of things first (been here a while) but I was answering your specific question.

    That one... and I still say no.
     
  38. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    You have every right to disagree and say no, of course you. Still doesn't make you right though. ;)
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Of course not... that would be most unusual (You're not right either btw.)
     
  40. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Ah, you say that but then I might be. :cool:
     
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  41. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Well-Known Member

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    The new BML stock does have working flange sounds, I might say. The Class 314, the BR 425, 422 etc all use ancient samples and I hate it so much. Recording flange sounds is the easiest thing you can do; you can get them anywhere you want. All that matters is that there's a wide variety of them and every train uses different samples.

    DTG should really prepare something like 100 samples and scramble them for every train in the game. This would take a lot of time... but even I would be willing to do it for them because it's low-skill. Then whenever they make a new train, they could just spin a wheel of numbers from 1-100 to choose a new resource under the same function.
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Flange sounds should be standard on all routes. There's no excuse as to why they can't be properly implemented. Do they not have an audio team?
     
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  43. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they do.... Allegedly.
     
  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed... Well at least in the audio files. That's the part I find odd. They have the sounds in the files but for some reason they aren't put on the train making it feel rushed effectively
     
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  45. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    They say that they do but what they are not doing is showing prove to us as the community. Also some of their sound is just reusing the same one again and again. They should definitely get brand new sounds, it will be much better if they can hook up mic and other recording device on the train itself that way they can get better sound and audio.
     
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  46. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    this is how the a real train sound suppose to sound like you can hear everything
     
  47. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Pointless putting up youtube vids as the usual rollout explanation is they can't use the sounds but they don't understand that we are not asking them to use the sounds but to have a listen "intently" and try and emulate the sounds, a good audio engineer worth their salt should be able to do that....!
     
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  48. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I can't see why DTG is not out recording live sounds now, they cannot hide behind the covid excuse anymore. They also had that real driver capture sounds on his train with equipment for TS1 and that driver said many more would do it as well, so why not for TSW2? There are so many ways this game could move forward for everyone's benefit but it all has to so painfully slow.

    How many meetings have they had saying they must stop giving excuses and must do action. Anyone remember Monty Python's Life of Brian? DTG reminds me of that committee in the film who wouldn't do anything without a meeting and then they would have to have another meeting etc. ;)
     
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  49. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    They had a session for recording the 8f sounds recently.
     
  50. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    yeah great, then all is forgiven then? What about the rest of UK Loco's with sub standard sound?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
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