PC I Made A Control Box For Tsw2

Getting bored of keys that are inconsistent on Raildriver from loco to loco and not enjoying using keyboard for Alerter, PZB, and doors I made my own little box.

I searched for a while until I found what I wanted, a keyboard encoder that could handle simultaneous key presses and would keep the key pressed as long as the button was pressed that could be programmed by me. These are not common. I settled on an Ultimarc IPAC which is a MAME controller that supports many many switches and two joy sticks. Eventually I intend to wire up a Westinghouse brake stand (don't tell the wife) and probably a throttle and dynamic brake - something from the SD38 to SD45 era if I can find one. The IPAC is a device that takes switch inputs and converts them to key presses. You can program the board to do whatever keys you want and can even have shifted keys. To the computer it is simply a USB keyboard and pair of joysticks if they're wired in. It can even pretend to be an XBox controller if you want it to. By default it comes programmed for MAME video games and people use them to make their own retro arcade machine.

I bought my board, wiring loom and the arcade machine buttons from a local supplier and tonight I put it together.



The box is actually upside down in this photo - each of the blue buttons controls opening/closing doors and are the Y and U key respectively. The yellow button is Alerter/SIFA and is the Q key. The central green button is a spare but I've programmed it to "E" for climb up and sit/stand. The arc of three buttons are the three PZB switches (PgDn, End and Del) - I intended they be all black but somehow managed to order two black and two green sigh. Those buttons are in a deliberate arc to give more clearance to the central button.

I have driven a couple of trains with it tonight in conjunction with Raildriver and didn't need keyboard once except to walk around the yard. A great immersion booster. The whole lot set me back about AU$100.

The holes in the lid were my only challenge, I did not have a hole saw the right size, but fortunately I had a step drill and the biggest cutting ring on that was just slightly under so a little whiz with a file and it was just right.

Ultimarc are at https://www.ultimarc.com/ (you need them for the software) and the Australian supplier I bought from is OzStick Home Arcade Solutions https://www.ozstick.com.au/
I have no connection to either supplier except as a happy customer.

I've built embedded systems before so this was a doddle. If you can handle a screw driver then you can probably figure this out. May your drill alignment skills be better than mine. I marked the box out nicely but it turned out to be a whiteboard marker not a permanent marker so after it wiped off I used the Eyeball version 1 L and R and they let me down a little. Probably because I didn't have my reading glasses on inside the safety specs.

Paul

 

You realise something similar for TS sells for over £50 on some sites...

 

Would you mind sending some links? I would love to have a foot pedal setted up a SIFA, I tried my luck with an arduino and an old foot pedal I had but I ran out of skill way quicker than I hoped

 

Oh man. I wish I had the space and the expertise to make all these controllers. My tiny apartment barely has any space as is. I so wish to get a sim driver setup and something like this for my train sim as well.

 

Thanks TrainSim-Matt , I've got a pedal but never thought of reversing it, good plan
paul.pavlinovich Nice. I've got an Orby button as well (big yellow button I saw Matt use once) but something like that with doors, PZB and DRA on it would be pretty neat. Please keep us updated if you do something resembling a Westinghouse brake stand

 

Thank you for the links, they both seem like amazing products and if they don't need software running in the background (so once they are configured they just work like a keyboard) I would be able to use these on console as well

 

Well done Paul.
Given my wife's dislike of the Thrustmaster gear I daren't dream of a Westinghouse brake stand.
Wonder how you could conceal it. Water cooling stand for the video card?

 

paul.pavlinovich, nice effort.

You mentioned looking for a solution that would allow "a keyboard encoder that could handle simultaneous key presses and would keep the key pressed as long as the button was pressed". I am curious what common devices you looked at that did _not_ satisfy this requirement. I mean, I assume common Arduino solutions should handle this, or is that assuming too much? It should depend on the software, and the most popular simple DIY embedded controller is an Arduino, with lots of examples of software to turn them into keyboard devices. So I have always suggested Arduino for this kind of custom solution. Though Matt is right, the X-Keys products are varied, and easy to use as well.

Another option is to use any DirectX compatible button box (like something made custom using a Boudnar board) and software like AutoHotKeys or Joystick Gremlin to convert the DX buttons presses into keyboard key presses.

For locomotives that have notch positions for all the levers (e.g. throttles that have specific notches such as Idle, 1, 2, 3....8 and brakes that similarly have set notch positions, no continuous zones, what you are doing could be expanded to allow adding multi-postion levers. But when you talk about the Westinghouse brake stand, that implies locomotives that have a continuous zone from say "Initial Application" to "Full Brakes" with notches only at Release, Suppression, Handle Off and Emergency. What were you planning to do for that situation? Or are you talking about brake stands with release, lap, apply, emergency notches (specific settings)?

 

Yeah, there are things like this on Etsy too and what they charge... wow

 

This is the board I used https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/i-pacs/i-pac2/ and the software is also from that site

I got the board, buttons and wiring looms from https://www.ozstick.com.au/ because I like supporting little businesses but you can find the same stuff on sites like Amazon.

There is no programming involved at all, you connect up the wiring loom and use the software to map each switch to a key.

Paul

 

Oh you can absolutely do this with Arduino and other similar embedded boards, with those you'll need to write some code. There is a person on this forum who has built their own unit very similar to a Raildriver but with Arduino at its heart.

I was looking for something plug and play as much as I possibly could because while I've coded and built embedded systems it was a long time ago.

 

Seen. Wanted. Ordered. Arrives next week

 

I wonder if it's still going to work on Xbox console since it has keyboard support. Right now using Immerision controls on Xbox is a pain in the arse because x button is used for operation shift to enable PZB Sifa Acknowledge. This will be helpful to PC players who don't use a railmaster

 

It depends on how these systems work.

If for example (like Arduino) you program the board to output a key press everytime you press the pedal, I'm pretty sure it works fine, if, instead you need to have software that constantly runs in the background, which translates a "pedal press" into a key press on the fly than it obviously won't work on console.

I have sent a few questions to a few manufactures of cheap and extremely nasty USB foot pedals to understand how those work, so that I could try with one of those before possibily spending ~70/80€ for a good one

If you want I'll let you know how it goes. I'll also try to see if I can find more info on the Elgato pedal.

 

I saw you plan to add power/brake handles, and I'm designing similar stuff, but there might be an issue.

A keypress simulation device works fine for the simple switches (PZB, Sifa control), but it may not work for power/brake levers since you need to hold the key for a few seconds to change a level or levels. The holding time needs to change a level are also various for trains, even, some trains don't have a "level," they use "step-less speed regulation" which only have 1-100%, no levels. A typical 9 or 17 gears lever (on GP38&AC4400CW) may not work with a simple keypress simulator and won't work for every train.

I have planned two workarounds A & B that may improve.

A. Technical simple but may disrupt immersion
You have to give up your SD38 or SD45 setup and buy some three-position selector switches instead. Your gonna use that switch to make a D-L-I style handle (Decrease-LAP-Increase) to replace any power/brake handle.
Simply mapping the momentary-position-1(up) to hold key "A", maintained position to nothing, momentary-position-2(low) to hold key "D". You now have a DLI handle to control the throttle.
Same for dynamic and other brakes, you only need to change the holding key to " ,. ;' [] " to control different brakes in DLI style.
Due to some trains were not using a DLI style lever (actually are most of them), the immersion will be less than RailDriver.

B. Technical nightmare and may cost a lot but 100% immersion
You need some actual train power/brake controller, or you could make some by 3D modelling and printing, which some will have gears/levels and others may have potentiometers. Use an Arduino (much easier than other MCU) to collect inputs from levers and send input info through a USB serial.
You also gonna need a C++ or other languages app to read serial data constantly and also modify the game memory dynamically to achieve a direct hardware input, which will be hard.
With ultimate skill, you could even set up a display and draw a train information interface (speed/force/warning GUI) and read information from game memory to fill in it.

C. Did I say C before?
Ask dovetail to provide native support as they did for RailDriver.
But as you are not gonna make it as a commercial product, I don't think they gonna give native support.

Anyway, it's a hard choice, do think about it.
If you have any better ideas or questions, I'll always be open to discussing them.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...-for-warthog-throttle-saitek-tq-profile.3634/
Isn't this kind of similar of what you thought? Maybe talking to the creator of that system might help you to make your own system

 

Thanks for the info you provide

I saw someone using Thrustmaster to control TSW on youtube before, and that should be him.

But there are still a few issues.

1. Lag
The TARGET script he writes is actually working like a keyboard macro, which means when you drag the lever, it presses/holds some keys. It still can't avoid the latency issue.
For RailDriver, if you push the throttle from idle to level 8, the game will instantly change the throttle to 8, but with a keypress-sim type of application, the latency is built in the game (you press key "A, D" the throttle are lagging) so it impossible to clear the lag if one still using the keypress-sim approach.
That's the difference between "have dovetail native support" and "haven't."

2. Applicability
As far I know, the TARGET script is ONLY working with Thrustmaster's hardware. No third party or homemade device compatibility.
I could rewrite that with embedded C/C++ or Arduino, but it is still working as keypress-sim, with the Lag issue.

3. Immersion (appearance & style)
A typical Thrustmaster device is dedicated to controlling a car or plane, which obviously not designed for trains. It looks nothing like a train controller.

4. Info display
Did you aware of the small speed displayer on RailDriver? To achieve that, there is currently no way without digging the game runtime memory unless dovetail provides some API, which they didn't now and may won't forever.

====================================================

Oh, I forgot the fifth.

5. Accuracy
Many trains are using gear-less handles to control power and brake, it is difficult to mapping the appropriate key-holding timing when moving the lever. So the input accuracy may drift.

 

Apologies, I might have misunderstood your first post, I understood that you were interested to build something like the TARGET script yourself, but more general for other input devices

Reading this paragraph I just thought that sending you to someone that had more or less solved these issues (managed to control levers using key presses even if the locos in TSW are the opposite of standardised in terms of inputs), could have been helpful to develop your own solution, my post was just that.

Your complaints are absolutely valid and I would love for DTG to implement either direct input for PC and support for a few popular HOTAS sticks for console peasants as well

 

You thought about knocking a few of these out for people that want them? I'm sure you will make a killing.

 

That would be me. You are spot on for all the issues. Unfortunately the only proper solution is for DTG to add DirectInput support to TSW. But I'll add a few comments below to explain some thing.

I have some locomotive profiles in my TARGET script that send as many as 20 to 50 key presses to move a lever from min to max, and the in game lever will follow the Thrustmaster lever by several tenths of a second. It can be confusing if you move a lever too far, or the wrong lever, then realize the mistake, move it back, and move a different lever to fix the mistake. If you make a mistake like that, it might take 1.5 seconds for all those keypresses to reach TSW. With practice you just get use to it (by not making such mistakes and recognizing that running a locomotive doesn't need to be twitch gaming), but it certainly isn't ideal.

This occurs mostly with brake levers as most brake levers have what I call a continuous zone (a zone without notches). For a notch (like moving the GP38 throttle from Idle to 1 to 2, etc. ) my script sends one key press for each notch and the lag is the same as if you pressed the keyboard key yourself.

For continuous zones, like moving a GP38 automatic brake from Initial Application to Full application, I have to send a couple dozen short key presses of about 50ms each. So that can add up to half a second or more to go from min to max braking, and the lag can be annoying. In this case, my script is slower than pressing keys on the keyboard because you press and hold the keyboard key, but my script must tap the keyboard key a couple dozen times to nudge the in game lever.

Yes. The scripts I wrote directly support the Warthog and TCA Airbus Throttles. Other TARGET compatible devices could be used instead, but they aren't so useful or practical (like the Cougar throttle or the TWCS, or any joystick - joysticks aren't very useful to run a locomotive). But my script is easy to modify to support any of these devices if desired.

There is a way I could write separate program to work with TARGET that would allow me to support any DirectX controller using my script (using TCP sockets). But I am not planning to do this.

There is a way to add 3 analog axes to my script by using the Thrustmaster T.RJ12 adapter. It is a USB dongle that was designed to convert a Thrustmaster rudder pedal (rudder, and left/right foot pedals) into a USB connection that is TARGET compatible. With that device and my script, you could easily add 3 potentiometers or hall effect sensors to work with my script. In fact, the TWCS throttle and TCA Airbus throttles also have this ability, so I could conceivably support a dozen analog axes in TARGET using several of these devices. If I built a custom controller, that is the route I would use since I already have the script.

Nothing is perfect, but the Warthog throttle and TCA Airbus Throttle make excellent levers for running a locomotive. Not prototypical, but neither is the Raildriver really. To do any better requires building something custom. I care more about the feel of the levers. The Raildriver feels OK, but the Warthog feels much better to me. The TCA Airbus Throttle also is respectable, though light to the touch. Just my opinion. I don't say this to attack the Raildriver. It is a nice controller too.

This gets into a discussion about building accurate prototypical locomotive consoles. I really wish DTG would add such capability to enhance custom simpit construction. Most flight sims have this ability, but not something I expect to ever see with TSW. It isn't that kind of sim. I would just be happy for them to finish Raildriver and then DirectInput support.

Keeping things in sync (avoiding drift as you say) was the primary focus I had when I started my script, and it would be impossible to do this if it wasn't for the TARGET background service that both guarantees key press timing with great accuracy, as well as guaranteeing that no key press will be missed. That is why I can send 30 key presses, each about 50 ms, and know with certainty the locomotove lever will move to the position I expect. It was difficult to figure this out initially, but now I can program up a new locomotive in 1-2 hours. I spend about the same amount of time setting up controls for a new aircraft in DCS World.

Again, to be clear, I don't press and hold a key for a variable time. It would be nearly impossible to maintain accuracy (sync) with TSW doing that. There are too many factors that cause that to fail. Instead, I tap the key a couple dozen times to nudge the in game lever toward its position. This is amazingly accurate and easy to figure out the timing for a new locomotive, and much easier to program up a new locomotive.

The best example of this is the BR Class 08 and 09 Grob. The throttle on the 08/09 has notches at OFF, 1, 3, and 4 (one key press to move from OFF to 1 and 3 to 4), but has a continuous zone from 1 to 3 which includes setting 2. It takes a couple dozen key taps to move from 1 to 3. The TARGET script plays a beep when it has pressed enough key presses to reach 2 from either 1 or 3. This gives feedback that you have reached throttle setting 2. The beep is accurate within about +/-5% of TSW reaching 2 on the throttle.


Anyway, just trying to provide some info about how my script works. I still say the Raildriver is your best bet for ease of use, and I don't suggest people go out and buy a Warthog or TCA Airbus throttle just to use my script. But for those that have these devices, or want to buy them for other sims, they (including Raildriver) are so much better than using a keyboard or an Xbox controller.

Regarding a custom controller, I don't plan to build one, but I am happy to help anyone that might want to add analog axes to a button box using the T.RJ12 adapter and my script.

The TARGET script has been the path of least resistance. It does not depend on any knowledge of hacking in to the DLL or memory map of TSW (and concerns that updates may break such hacking) and is accessible to anyone that is willing to understand basic TARGET programming. What I did in the script goes way beyond basic TARGET programming, but since I (and Thrustmaster) did the hard part, the rest is relatively easy to add a new locomotive to the script.

 

Got it, thanks. Nice there is a plug and play option.

 

Don't feel sorry about that, I appreciate it.
I'm currently designing a modularized train control panel/unit, which won't be able to run the TARGET script (no compatibility), so I have to write my own.
For "modularized," I mean having different types of handles packaged as individual units(modules) to adopt different trains.

It has to have the HOTAS hardware manufacturer working with Sony/Microsoft to bring native support (drivers) on consoles. I don't think DTG could make any progress without it.
On the other hand, if you really want that, it MIGHT be possible to "translate/simulate/map" joystick inputs to PS/Xbox controller inputs by MCU, but it's complex. You have to finger out the device communication protocol. There will also be a lag and accuracy issue, like I mentioned before.

 

If you can find someone in Melbourne's east with an Xbox I can try it

 

When there is an API I will have a go at other things . Yes using key presses would all too easily get out of sync with the game.

Paul

 

Making products is easy enough (I used to do it for model railways sold through local stores) - its supporting them that gets more interesting. The hardest bit is drilling the holes to the right size so the buttons click in nicely.\

Paul

 

Glad to see you're now official.
Hope there's more perks than just an icon.

 

I would love to have an API so I can connect controls to the game (this should include the gauge values in the HUD). I think we can do very fancy things, like replacing the HUD.

 

Amen to that!
Last year I was able do make a full cab simulator work with Open Rails because I had an API. Although even if i could get an API for TSW2 tommorow i would not know what to drive since it's a cab from a french design with tap changer...

 

I've had my Stream Deck Pedal for a week or so now, and really enjoying it. Adds a lot more immersion than I was expecting. Got the middle pedal for Sifa etc. (Q) and the outer ones for PZB Ack and PZb Rel. Avoids the Raildriver 'which are the PZB buttons for this loco?' lottery!

 

I am vaguely contemplating adding three or maybe four microswitch joysticks to this thing

joy 1 - single axis - throttle pull down would press throttle down key, push up would push throttle up key - the controller handles long presses and quick singles
joy 2 - single axis - push up would increase train brake, pull down would decrease train brake
joy 3 - dual axis - push up would increase train brake, pull down would decrease loco brake - push right for bail off
joy 4 - single axis - push up to increase cruise control, pull down to decrease

Cheapest configurable microswitch joystick I can find is AU$25 and I would need a bigger enclosure so probably an outlay of AU$125 to try this little experiment. I will see if I can find cheaper switches before getting into this. I suspect I'm just not searching for the right thing.

All that said, I often use my xbox controller and "box" together which covers nearly everything, especially since I set the central button to be the bell button so I can turn it off on US locos.

Paul

 

I actually did this very thing years ago to use for TS Classic - with a couple of two-axis 'arcade machine' joysticks for throttle and brake control.

Despite what most would consider the 'unrealistic' nature of just pushing/pulling a joystick to increase/decrease the throttle, rather than a true 'notched' or analogue lever, the feeling of immersion of using a lever/joystick rather than pressing keys on the keyboard was game-changing. I intend to rebuild and expand my setup when I can find the time.

 

Thank you for your feedback raretrack
I'm considering getting such a pedal for myself now, too

 

I agree chriis its not perfect, but its a good alternative

Interestingly I find nearly as much immersion using the xbox controller as Raildriver in game. For some locomotives (e.g. the BR612 and G6) its actually better with the controller.

Given you can pick up a USB xbox controller for usually fairly small money its a great alternative for PC players wanting to (mostly) escape keyboard and mouse. If you do try an xbox controller, let Steam install its xbox controller driver as its much better than the one that comes with windows.

Paul

 

Got myself an USB pedal from pcsensor, cheap, software doesn't need to run in the background, has a cat paw icon on its top (cat hair not included, was added after unpacking by local predator) ;-)
I mapped the "q"-key as continous press and it adds a lot to immersion when playing with German locos because of the frequency SiFa has to be tapped.

 

Agree, I've got a similar cheap pedal and obviously it doesn't have great build quality or anything close to the Elgato, but it does the job, works on consoles and improves immersion A LOT.

Just very strongly recommend an usb hub with the option of turning inputs on and off so I don't have to unplug it every time, but I already had that as the xbox only has 3 USB ports...

I just wish the english trains had different DSD/DVD and AWS buttons, but I don't think they will change the good old Q button just for this use case.

 

Very cool hyperlord

 

I bought exactly the same pedal - it's much more immersive now and easy to satisfy SIFA ;P

 

paul.pavlinovich Sorry to bring up this old thread*. I built a button box using the same ultimarc card as you. Just wondered if you had mastered Macros. For example I want to send Ctrl+W (Master Key on some locos). I programmed a macro for this but it doesn't work in the sim. Just wondered if you had found out how. Thanks.

*NB I wanted to send a private message but couldn't find out how. Could someone point me to that?

 

If it's for the PC, you could remap some of the keyboard assignments in the sim.

For my 3D printed Euro RailDriver build, my reversing switch handle is removable:

Pushing it in the reverser switch or taking it out triggers a hall effect sensor (magnet in the bottom of the key)
This then sends a signal to the controller boards,
i'm using STM32F boards, with FreeJoy on one of them... i then need to use JoyToKey to convert the joystick buttons to keyboard presses to operate the switches in the train cabs in TSW2.

But for some reason i couldn't get JoyToKey to do 'CTRL + W' .. it will do other 'CTRL + key' combos, so i wonder if something blocks modifier keys with W being sent from a second keyboard devise..... and maybe A, S and D keys, as they are used to movement in other games and could be a way to cheat in those games or something (clutching at straws here


Anyway, to get my reverser handle to work in TSW2, i simply changed the key bind 'ctrl + W' and 'ctrl + shift + W' for reverser handle in / out,
to 'O' and 'shift + O' and it works fine with that button combo... pushing my reverser handle in and the one in the train appears in the switch, pull it out and it disappears.



Note, i don't drive steam trains (only German electric trains) and i think O is now used on them, so i removed all the keyboard commands in TSW2 relating to steam engines (and things like ditch lights that are an american thing) from the keyboard key assignments, this free'd up a few keys for me to re-assign to things i do use,
but we are rapidly running out of keyboard letters to use in the sim, there are still a load of switches in the cabs of German trains that don't have any way to operate them except with the mouse

Might have to start using 'ALT' and combos of shift, ctrl and alt to get enough commands in TSW2 for all the trains.

Ideally we'd get an API to access the trains data like there is in TSC, and a joystick interface could be written by 3rd parties that will handle all the controls ever needed and much much more... plus working EBuLa screens and many more things... but i know that is not something DTG are working on, so it may be years before we get the same kind of functionality TSC has.

 

Hi Rich,
Let's start with the easy one - to send a private message you can do it the little mail icon at the top of the page

You can also write to someone on their profile by clicking their name in the left hand bar but I'm not totally sure that is private.

In this case a public question is good because other people might need the same thing.

I just tried this and I first created a macro


press Add Entry then

W and Add Entry then Add Macro
it ends up looking like this



then I set the button to use Macro 1

I tried it in game and while it works, it seems to press it more than once which is a bit weird. In the Class 08 for example, the Master Key goes all the way to "start" instead of just "on" which it doesn't do if you just do the same thing on the keyboard.

I found the people at https://www.ultimarc.com/ fairly helpful so give them a yell if you cannot get it to work.

Paul

 

Hi Paul - Thank you so much for the quick and full response. Doh! I tried that envelope button but it put me off when it said start conversation and not private message. I'll try to remember that now for future use.

Its very strange but I did exactly what you did to create and action a macro and got no response as a result of pushing the button in the sim. I'll create a new macro and have another try.

I would highly recommend creating a button box for anyone casually reading this. It has the advantage you can use in TSW and TSC (and other games/software) as it simply replicates a keyboard letter push. And in TSW/TSC you can have a profile for any individual loco but you do have to remember to change the labels.

Once again thank you for your help.

Rich

 

Very strange. I wiped my macros and started again. The one I programmed worked first time! Its probably user (i.e. me) error

 

Great news that it is working. I don't label my buttons, I use different colours. Well there is an odd one out, PZB Frei is green and it should have been black but I somehow ordered 2 green and 2 black instead of 1 green and 3 black so just went with it.

Paul

 

Recently got myself a cheap foot pedal (to go with my Elgato Stream Deck and Raildriver) and as others have said it's certainly a game changer for operating SIFA on the German stuff. (Now means I've got 4 methods of acknowledging it now if you include the keyboard, I've got no excuse to miss it now!)

Tip: One thing that's not in the manual (that I can see, anywhere) is if you "think" SIFA is going to interrupt you at the wrong time, briefly operate it and cancel it and then it resets the 30 second timer, very useful if braking for a station or taking a sip of your tea/coffee/whatever your poison as it always seemed to have a habit of coming on just at the wrong time!

I've probably gone and given myself foot-RSI now though, tap, tap, tap, tap

 

I do that too; I call it "pre-SIFA"
Also handy when you're coming up to a signal where you know you're going to have some PZB action to deal with

 

I think that is the way SIFA or any alerter system works, nobody waits until the systems lights/beeps. That's kind of the last warning if you forgot to do it: or you do it now or the train stops. You are suppose to press it/release it every few seconds.

 

nice if you like to tap your feets a lot :P

 

Why not use an old USB keyboard?

 

You could do that for sure if you can find one that you can get apart intact. Maybe one of the USB number pads you used to be able to buy to use with laptops could be good?