Knowing the quality of the TSW2 add-ons, I'd like to do a little research to spare myself another bitter disappointment. I'd like to ask you guys about some things that spoil all the fun with Sand Patch Grade: 1. Is there now sufficient locomotive power for all scheduled trains to be able to overcome the steep route profile? What I have learned so far: Not a single case was detected where climbing a hill would be impossible due to insufficient locomotive power. 2. Do all locomotives have electrodynamic brakes and do they have any effect? What I have learned so far: They do have dynamic brakes, but defective dynamic brake behaviour from SPG’s AC units has been reproduced in HSC’s loco. 3. Do EOTD now work properly on all scheduled trains or are they sometimes dead and show that the last car is still standing even though the train has been going 20 mph for 10 minutes? 3a. Did I see correctly that Norfolk Southern trains from the Horseshoe Curve add-on have an EOTD with a CSXT designation?! What I have learned so far: Yes, EOTDs on Norfolk Southern trains have CSXT designations. What a shoddy piece of work! :/ 3b Do trains still carry an EOTD on the front of the lead locomotive? What I have learned so far: Yes, the locomotives still have EOTD (End of train device) on the front of the lead locomotive. 4. Does the alerter on the ES44AC locomotive work correctly this time, does it count down from 0 to 60 or as in SPG activates once every five minutes? What I have learned so far: The alerter works in the same way as in the SPG but it is difficult to say if this is how it should work. It counts up to 120 seconds, at which point the notification icon appears in the HUD, it then counts down for 25 secs and letting it run down to zero will apply the brakes. but it is difficult to say if this is how it 5. Does the horn on the ES44AC train still jam and stop working, requiring a restart of the game? What I have learned so far: It is even worse than that. All the locomotive sounds are screwed up. 6. Do the speeds given by the HUD match the speeds given by the trackside signs this time ? What I have learned so far: No. Track signs need to be looked at as sometimes they show nothing at all. 7. Does HUD give speeds for freight trains, or like in SPG, sometimes for freight trains and sometimes for passenger trains? What I have learned so far: No, it shows random speeds for passenger or freight trains. 8. Can permissive signals be passed at 15 mph when displaying a "RESTRICTED PROCEED" signal? What I have learned so far: Most of the signals appear to be broken and not operating according to railroad regulations. 9. Does it get dark in the driver's cab at night and while passing through tunnels, or is it like the London Commuter Route Add-On that the driver's cab is equally bright regardless of the time of day or environment? What I have learned so far: Yes, the brightness in the cabin reflects the brightness of the surroundings. 10. Do the headlights on the front of the locomotive work or at least are they visible at night? 11. Is fog also visible at night or only during the day? Thank you in advance for any information! I don't want to buy anything blind anymore. Unfortunately I haven't learned much from the reviews and release materials. Mostly typical marketing gibberish that the manufacturer "is very excited", which often means that they are again trying to sell unfinished and underdeveloped junk. I hope I'm wrong this time!!!
1. I've only tried a couple of services, but if you ensure all locos are working (by pressing the Comms On button before doing anything else) this provides plenty of power - four AC44s is enough for a 10,000t train. (I've read that on the real curve they aim for 1.5hp/ton.) But you won't (or at least, I couldn't) maintain full track speed on the very steepest sections. 2. They do have dynamic brakes, but I can't speak to how prototypical the effects are. 4. The alerter counts up to 120 seconds, at which point the notification icon appears in the HUD, it then counts down for 25 secs and after about 10 seconds the beeping starts. I imagine (but haven't tried) that letting it run down to zero will apply the brakes. Changing the power settings resets the count on the alerter. FWIW I'm really enjoying the route. The scenery is impressively done without an unacceptable hit to frame rates (though when you get three long trains together, my rig (far from a powerhouse) struggles a bit).
6. No, track signs need to be looked at as sometimes they show nothing at all (yellow with black horizontal line) 7. Maximum line speed (passenger) I would say
The horn bug on SPG doesn't require a restart to fix. There are workarounds. On SPG, the HUD correctly shows the freight limit for trains, and the passenger limit for light locos.
Could you please share these workarounds with me? Also, maybe you know what to do when the mouse wheel suddenly stops working while driving? Because this also happens sometimes in SPG and requires a game reset. No it doesn't. I've driven CSX Q359 manifest train just yesterday and HUD displayed 30/35mph speed limit between Fo Tower and Glencoe (on track 1 toward Rockwood) while track signs showed 25 mph for freight trains. BTW: The speeds provided by the HUD are so inaccurate that they sometimes change even when there is no sign at the track. Something like this happens at mile 200 toward Rockwood, for example.
SPG seems to be hit and miss with speed limits. Most of them show correct but I’ve come a few services where I got passenger limits in the hud. I forget which ones and I don’t really care since I run the correct speeds anyway but it definitely messes up that whole points system and the speed graph at the end of the service (not something I personally care about but others might).
That one sign is a known bug: it is a 25, but as you approach it the HUD warns of an upcoming 35. It's wrong, and a trap for the unwary, but it is a single incorrect implementation.
Switch to the 8 camera and fly far enough away that you can no longer hear the train. Then switch back to cab view (which forces the game to re-load the train sounds), and the horn will work again
Yes, this is definitely a known bug. I reported it myself long time ago Along with many other bugs. I have the unpleasant impression that DTG treats marking something as a "known bug" as if it's a fix and doesn't bother with it at all anymore. Oh, thanks for that hint! Much appreciated!
Colleagues, DTG strongly advises against using unofficial demos, so I'm forced to rely on the opinion of those of you who have already purchased the latest add-on. Based on your own experience with the Horseshoe Curve Add-on, can you give me any hints on the five unanswered questions? For general interest, I've included answers that I have already received from you or that I found on the Internet. Positive are colored green, negative are colored red and undecided are colored yellow. Again, thank you in advance for your help!
The route is really bright, I have to change my TV settings to enjoy. A thing with HSC that is really infuriating is that most of the train signals on the route seem to be broken. Like you'll have a green indication on all three mains even though there are no trains in the block. When there's not a train in the block the signals should have three yellow lights going left and right. The signals should have yellow lights up and down for when a train has permission though. Another issue I'm facing with HSC is most consists are a little short on last gen consoles (I know about the 40 car limit,) most of the time having 25-30 cars including the power; when they really should be 40-50 cars+engines. Running 50 car trains in the past would cause you to have really bad frames and experience lag.. and sometimes a blue screen.. But now we have 50 car trains running all the time on Sherman Hill; and the frames are good. I do really enjoy driving the ES44AC on Sherman Hill and Sandpatch, though.
1. Ive not come across a single service I can't get over the grade yet. But dot expect to be able to run at line speed all the way with some of the heaviest trains. For example the 11k tonne coal trains with 84 cars you WILL crawl up sections of the line.
Not according to this document which details Norfolk Southern Signal Rules for Former Conrail Territory
I'd assume the signalling rules wouldnt have changed unless the signals themselves had changed. But Im certainly not an expert on US signalling rules which is why I was grateful to solicitr for providing a link to this document.
The yellow ”dartboard” signals are old PRR signals. Conrail and then NS have been slowly replacing them with tricolor signals, but only when the old ones wear out. So you will see both anywhere on old Pennsy routes
I know, the line has both new and old signals. That's ok. The problem is that the old Pennsy signals are broken because they display incorrect indications.
I'm not seeing any incorrect indications according to the guide I posted, where about's are you talking?
I'm not sure if there are other issues as well, but I've noticed they'll show approach slow when they should be showing approach.
If the interlocking or yard has 15 mph switches or crossovers, then, yes, the aspect should be approach slow.
An approach slow means to reduce to medium speed and approach the next signal at slow speed. In the game, it's being used prior to a stop signal. A slow approach is the aspect you're thinking of, where you maintain slow speed until clear of the interlocking, and then proceeding at medium speed prepared to stop at the next signal. Only place I've seen it on the route is at CP MO.
I think skyhook has proofen, that they are capable of delivering a high quality route. Now i hope they take the chances of doing that also with the rolling stock. Especially with locos and wagons a player or dev might wanna use on a other route, skyhooks copypaste style is a "no go". Dtg knows how to make quality trains, why not do a training session with adams crew?
I have found some bugged routes. 10K Chicago - Allentown. The initial signal will be red and not allow you to pass in the Journey. If you run the same route in the Timetable, it works fine. Will Wet Coal Burn. Cannot get the rear locos to function properly. Info states to enter the cab and that the rear locos have banking comm turned on. Make sure to set it in the cab. Get in the cab, it is already on. Trying to start the run, rear locos as viewed from the outside, the reverser handle is either missing or does not move. No traction generation showing in use on rear locos. There was another route, do not remember which one, where the rear brake pressure shows as ***. It may be that 10K Chicago - Allentown. I like HSC but definitely has some issues.
Why? This is simply a list of things that effectively take away from my enjoyment of the Sand Patch Grade route. Before I waste any more money, I want to find out if they have been fixed or just repeated at HSC. What's wrong with that? Perhaps I should make another list of things I liked about SPG. To make sure they have not been screwed up in HSC. But there is no need to start a thread about what's cool about the HSC, because we can see it in the promotional material. The publisher is eager to boast about the good things and doesn't hide anything, while the information about the flaws and bugs I have to discover on my own through heavy questioning and investigation. Unfortunately there is no official list of "known bugs" on the shop website. We have to write it ourselves.
IMO, it's no more or less buggy than the other US freight routes. In other words it has all the general TSW2 bugs, but hasn't introduced any major new bugs.
To point out what you like is same important as giving constructive feedback to devs about what needs to be better or improved. I agree no need for an extra thread, i see the final feedback threads as a good place for sharing thoughts on content. This way customers have a buyers guide and devs get an impression what a bunch of train enthusiasts think of their products. Im sure most members here want tsw to succeed, so yes, its probably frustrating for a developer sometimes, but at least they get a honest opinion to learn from.
I think the OP has too high expectations TBH. The issues he lists as broken in SPG certainly dont ruin my enjoyment and fun of the route. I the signals do work as intended if you actually understand what they are telling you.
Here a dialog of a forum, where the differences about ac / dc version compared to the ac4400cw was discussed by people operated those. I cant verify if its true, since i never worked on those trains. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1517472
With all due respect, I think it's not my expectations that are too high, but rather that the community is demanding less and less from publishers. Things that were perfectly doable 10-20 years ago, which were then considered normal and natural, are today described as exorbitant demands. L̶e̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶l̶e̶m̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶l̶o̶c̶o̶m̶o̶t̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶P̶G̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶l̶v̶e̶d̶:̶ ̶ ̶ D̶T̶G̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶x̶t̶r̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶c̶o̶m̶o̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶r̶e̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶r̶e̶a̶d̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶s̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶(̶s̶w̶a̶p̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶D̶-̶4̶0̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶C̶4̶4̶0̶0̶)̶.̶ ̶I̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶l̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶l̶e̶n̶g̶t̶h̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶8̶0̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶5̶2̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶s̶.̶ ̶A̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶e̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶8̶0̶ ̶w̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶s̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶o̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶T̶S̶W̶2̶,̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶T̶S̶W̶2̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶i̶n̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶c̶e̶s̶s̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶8̶0̶ ̶w̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶!̶ ̶A̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶f̶f̶i̶c̶i̶e̶n̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶o̶c̶o̶m̶o̶t̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶i̶n̶s̶e̶t̶s̶.̶ ̶ ̶ T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶l̶e̶m̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶s̶o̶l̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶d̶e̶e̶d̶.̶ ̶N̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶l̶e̶t̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶P̶G̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶.̶ ̶I̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶s̶a̶c̶r̶i̶f̶i̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶l̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶b̶a̶n̶d̶o̶n̶e̶d̶.̶ ̶I̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶c̶t̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶a̶f̶f̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶e̶i̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶a̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶T̶S̶W̶2̶ ̶s̶e̶r̶i̶e̶s̶.̶ I checked on the archive Youtube videos and indeed, train sets in SPG have had around 50 wagons since the beginning of TSW2. Sorry!
Perhaps if people didnt download illegal versions of the game then the developers would a budget to do more. I think you are looking through rose tinted glasses when you say things where doable 10-20 years ago. Most games where released bugged and left bugged.
My mistake! I apologise to you and DTG. I retract what I wrote in my previous comment. I checked on the archive Youtube videos and indeed, train sets in SPG have had around 50 wagons since the beginning of TSW2.
You were close. Upon turning off and back on, looking at the reverser in the rear cab, the reverser disappeared. No workie. Tried again. Got in cab, turned banking off on, setup lights, etc. Released the automatic brakes, turned banking comm off and on again and it worked. This is some whack BS. Bad bug. Should have been caught in "QC Testing".
I think I've seen what sergio volodstok is talking about with regards to the HSC signals. On other routes when there are no trains nearby the signals display red lights, only when there is a train a few blocks away do they start changing to yellow and green. This is sometimes the case on HSC, where you will see a green indication for your track and the others will show red. But sometimes on HSC the signals for the other tracks are displaying yellow or green lights (or their "dartboard" equivalents) when there are no other trains anywhere nearby on those tracks. I've seen some over the middle track displaying a yellow one way and a green the other at the same time. Wondering if that is intentional and something they do on this route? They don't default to a stop indication when nothing is around? DW
That's exactly what I'm saying. When nothing is around, the signals should show a stop indication; or turn off.
Here is an example. Heading west from Altoona this set of signals is indicating Clear for the middle track, only there are no trains on that track to east. Nothing clear back to the end of the route. When you look from the other direction the middle signal is indicating Clear for that direction as well. There is a train on the middle track to the west up near Gallitzin but its heading west so it's moving away from this area. On other routes when nothing is around the signals seem to default to Stop. Is it correct for these signals to be indicating Clear like that? DW
I suspect this is correct. The Pennsylvania RR position light signals tended to default to the vertical or “green” aspect when the block was clear. Other US railroads did this as well. The best online documentation I could find for those is here: http://www.lundsten.dk/us_signaling/abs_apb_prr/index.html discussing PRR position lights and Absolute Permissive Block signals in Ohio. I could not find documentation on the default aspect for the HSC section, but I would not be surprised if it were the same.
It would be nice if we could find comprehensive signaling information in the included manual. But there's no manual, is there? I took a box off the shelf with a simulator add-on released 10 years ago. The manual is 148 pages long and each page contains information important to the game. Plus another 200 pages of PDF documentation containing actual procedures and interesting technical data. 10 years ago it was doable and profitable for the publisher. Something went damn wrong in the world of simulators. And it's our fault, because instead of pulling the publishers up, we support their race to the bottom. Damn your "reality check"
It's hard to give an absolute value as regional prices vary a lot depending on the currency. However, the price was comparable to the DLC prices - I think it was around 35-40€. The price included an elegant box, a DVD with the add-on itself and extensive PDF documentation, and a thick illustrated manual printed on chalky paper.
So if it was comparable to todays prices then you have the answer on why things have been cut out. Ask yourself the question, would you pay an extra 5EUR for a manual?
I could pay an extra 5€ for such a comprehensive and beautifully edited manual. But to be honest I don't think that this 5€ is the price of the manual itself. For those 35-40€ I got an add-on with incomparably more details than in TSW2. The manual was just the icing on the cake. Yes, this add-on was really worth every cent paid! If I divided the price by the content of these two add-ons, the TSW2 add-ons should cost less than 1€
I have been having issues with the horseshoe Curve on Xbox one. It lags like crazy and the engine noises are not real and unacceptable. Is their a way from the Xbox point of view to reduce the amount of lag? This addon in my option should not be 29.99 until this issue is resolved quick.
