Automatic Train Operation

Simple question really, should Automatic Train Operation (ATO) be simulated in a train sim?

I've been enjoying the new Glasgow Subway route in TSC recently and despite previously disliking the idea of ATO, it's actually quite fun. Partly because it being a break from the norm (and an easier driving experience) but also because of the added challenge of trying to drive manually.

Such a self-contained route would be well suited to TSW's timetable mode, so maybe one day we'll get to see an ATO enabled metro system in TSW2.

Thoughts?

 

It’s cool that’s it’s simulated and with some intensive and involved out-of-course scenarios there could be fun to be had but I must say I prefer the more manual the better.

Any train that has a speedset like the AFB in Germany, I always turn it off and manually control the train as much as possible. It might not be the most realistic way but it keeps me interested in the drive.

They have put a lot of work into the passenger side of the game so it is easy to hop on a train and enjoy a journey without driving the train.

 

Except if you are driving over 160km/h

 

What?

 

Excellent idea and there's CBTC stand alone the other type is ETCS overlaid on CBTC ATO Thameslink Core Manila Philippines LRT Line 1.

 

In Germany, over 160 is not permitted, anywhere, except under LZB/AFB control.

 

Never seen the point of passenger mode. Don't need to sit there watching fake scenery whizzing by when I can watch a youtube cab ride and have better
ATO would be fine if it had a purpose in game, but as an operator I'm sure it's not the most stimulating of experiences, about the same as a green light special with cruise control activated. Only there to open the doors or hit the brakes

 

I don't see the harm in having at least 1 ATO route. One that's iconic and unique so that it is actually interesting to play. ATO Routes that have a manual override option can be included in scenarios or selected services in timetable.

 

If the system is driver monitored (rather than driverless) it might make more sense, especially where there's the provision for manual control like you say using a throttle/brake lever. Glasgow Subway does this quite well, requiring switching to manual control when entering and leaving the depot. Makes you feel more involved rather than simply clicking start and opening the doors all the time.

 

I find it quite useful if wanting to start from another station, simply jumping on the next service and travelling there feels more immersive rather than quitting to the main menu and back.
I can imagine ATO might seem like watching the AI drive, but somehow it doesn't give that impression on Glasgow Subway, maybe because you're telling the train when to leave and monitoring it as you're going along, as if you're still in charge. Sometimes it can be quite nerve-wracking when the automation kicks in at the last second and barely makes the station stop - almost wanting to manually intervene.

 

To me, that would be a waste of time. I don't need to do what would be done in real life when doing something that is a simulation. If I "drive a train" from Paddington to Reading I don't end up in Reading (thankfully)

I guess if you're willing to suspend reality enough to take a passenger ride on a simulated train rather than exiting to a menu then that makes sense

 

Except under LZB control. AFB is not required.

 

Everyone uses the game differently, having a greater variety of features with routes having new systems like ATO isn't a bad thing IMO, even if we only ever get one route featuring it.

 

So for a year or so on this forum I heard people using "That's an ATO train/route, it won't be fun" as a reason for not expressing a preference for one suggested route or another. And I bought into that sort of thinking, at least for a while. Well, having been born in Glasgow, I bought the Glasgow subway route for TS the other day despite it having ATO and am having a blast with it, both on and off. It doesn't replace manual driving but is a nice relief from it, on occasion.

I love that I can turn it on and off at will, and choose to drive with ATO or without. With it on, I focus on doors and making passenger announcements (another great feature in the Glasgow subway route!) and let the train drive itself. Reminds me of that guard mode people have been asking for - let the train drive itself and we can concentrate on other things.

Makes me hanker for a Northern Line, complete with Kennington Loop, or Jubilee Line and trying to line up with those platform doors manually, with ATO off. I'm very pleased that it wasn't the big buzzkill that others though it might be, and am very glad I tried it. We need it here in TSW ASAP! Lol

 

I think having ATO would be a step too far, at least in TSW 2, and I wouldn't want to have such a route. Considering TSW's wider audience across console too, I can't imagine it would have such appeal.

I mean, forgetting ATO briefly, it reminds me of WSR. Here, that route has a realistic heritage speed limit of 25mph, which doesn't bode well for much excitement and this has been voiced on the forums a lot - and for such reasons is why it's my least favourite route. Reaslism is great, but overall, this is a video game and it also needs to keep the audience engaged.

Keep ATO in TSC, not in TSW 2.

 

Fair point. If an ATO enabled route included the option to drive manually, even if not prototypical of real life operational norms, would it still have the same appeal or simply be spoilt by being less realistic?

 

Good point but if DTG does Thameslink Core and Crossrail these use ATO CBTC overlaid on ETCS Level 2. Therefore if you need to know that id you're not used to ATO you can have the potential to get a SPAD if not used to ATO operations.

 

Something against Reading?

I have never had the slightest urge to try ATO trains but now think it could be good only if it allowed for doing other stuff. Announcements would be fun, checking tickets(lol), other guard mode. It might be a way of DTG to see if they could implement a proper 'guard mode' (like on the 38 stock) feature in game. I'd also like to see the Hydrogen train, I think there was one round Birmingham somewhere.

The WSR is a brilliant route imo, it is different just like an ATO route would be in some regards. Could it benefit from faster speeds, yes sure, but if it is not done in reality it shouldn't be in the route. But the WSR, Matt also said this, is a great route just to chill on. I'm sure people are put off getting this route because of unfair criticism but imo it is a well made route.

 

Yep... Can't stand the place. Only reason to go there is it once had the best Burger King in the UK at the services on the Westbound M4... Other than that it's dull as dishwater

 

Console players is not an excuse to not at least try an ato route. DTG haven't made an ato route before in tsw2 so you can't assume alot of people won't like it. We have lzb in the game for the ice 3 trains but hey you can drive manually if you want. I haven't seen people say that lzb is bad to my knowledge so there is no harm in trying it if the train can be driven manually.

 

I haven't got the Glasgow Subway route yet but I intend to. I think as long as it is optional then something like ATO is fine, surely it would be good to have as many real representations of varous railway experiences as possible? I do wonder, however, what a train simulator might be like in 40 years if all railways are driverless!

I think some on here seem to think that what they like must be what the majority like too and any deviation is unwanted!

I like preserved railways in both sims, they are another part of the modern railway world, personally my main problem with WSR is the lack of steam engines which is/was the raison-d'etre of the railway, also the layers of dirty blue diesels is not particularly realistic.

I think the route is a nice change of pace and adds something different, surely variety is what makes the sim popular.

 

Oh, absolutely. Didn't mean to come across as such, I'm a console player myself. My point was that as TSC is PC only, and has been around for a long while, its audience is most likely more familiar with different styles of routes, such as those with ATO. My worry is that as TSW 2 most likely has a lot of first-time players on console, could they potentially find such ATO routes boring (personally, these type of routes I'd also find dull), especially if it was one of the first routes they had played?

 

First time players isn't really an excuse either. SKA is technically part ATO since the DB BR 406 ICE 3M has LZB. SKA and the ICE was well received. An ato route would most likely be a dlc so a first time player wouldn't probably get an ato route immediately. Players aren't gonna like every route but that doesn't mean that a certain route shouldn't be made because some people wouldn't like it. I don't like br blue routes or steam along with freight routes but I don't think DTG shouldn't make them. An ATO route would be cool to see and if players don't like the idea of ATO, then they don't have to get it if dtg decided to make one in the future.

 

I view ATO as being an option. Every device has an off switch, so as long as the option exists to turn it off and drive manually, I'm good with it. And I agree with the OP that the Glasgow Subway route really opened my eyes to how fun it could be.

 

You can also do that with NYC Subway too on R160A-1 8313-8376 L & M trains then ATO off for 6th have then enabled on QBL M train L train Canarsie.

 

You dream of there being a part manual part ATO train? I'm not sure the unions would like that, lol. For me I could ATO trains playing a part in high speed trains where they don't stop much but for frequent stops I'd still prefer manual.

 

No need to dream, it happens on Thameslink in the central core section (St Pancras to Blackfriars or so). Given they run trains at very high frequency through those stations it makes sense

 

I was joking and am aware of the Thameslink. Surely ATO will be a 'game killer' for modern trains once it gets widespread, they will still have the past of course and I can't see many of the youngsters wanting to be a train driver soon if it does become widespread given the fact they won't be able too anyway, lol.

Progress I suppose but I can see the unions fuming once they start laying off drivers no?

 

The skill levels required with all all physical jobs are being reduced across the board. But ATO can’t tell if people are stuck in doors, can’t see obstructions on the track etc
I do not think train staff need to worry. The British public are so disruptive and stupid there is always a place for people on trains keeping them safe.