Spirit Of Steam Stream Feedback Thread... And More Importantly...

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by mattwild55, May 19, 2022.

  1. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    426
    You can scale the HUD on PC using an engine.ini tweak:
    [/Script/Engine.UserInterfaceSettings]
    ApplicationScale=0.500
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    839
    Problem with that is it messes up the menu's also
     
  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I imagine the fireman is programmed to maintain a specific boiler pressure and from watching last night's stream the safety valve did seem to be going of rather a lot so I do wonder if that's going to be a running theme...
     
  4. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    870
    yes they do, i have the PS5 and the PC version,

    I drive on the PS5 with my bluetooth 'train driving keyboard' i made :
    Train Driving Keyboard.jpg

    But on the PC i use my 'Euro RailDriver' i'm in the process of building :
    Next to raildriver small.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 6
  5. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    2,392
    Most pointless post award goes to..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    Run flat out at 50% cutoff, that will soon sap the boiler!

    But seriously, a definite concern and one which needs to be addressed. As I posted already, MSTS and TSC even Trainz to some extent seem to manage the AI fireman tolerably, so it’s not as if the algorithms and structure to do this don’t already exist and should have been one of the initial, “Can we do it…” exercises when deciding if TSW could support steam traction.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    2,103
    I had a PC until very recently but now run TSW on PS5 because I like the simplicity of a console for playing games. And that’s coming from someone who was a PC gamer for years (and worked in IT support).
    There is surprisingly little difference between the PC version and that of gen 9 consoles; just a notch down on draw distance, and (regrettably) a little less passenger variety. Those slight differences really don’t change the experience much, and for what it’s worth I preferred the controller even on PC. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    That doesn't make it look any better. I detest the whole design. It is horrible.
     
  9. Kevinsim1046

    Kevinsim1046 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    106
    Another thing I noticed when watching the stream is that the regulator gives you instant power. I’m not sure about British steam in particular, but in reality, when you open the regulator, there is a delay before you start seeing a build up in the steam chest.

    From the stream, as you open the regulator, the loco starts moving immediately…this kind of makes it less of a challenge. I hope this is something that gets looked into
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    2,711
    Pretty happy with how things looked given it's a first go at steam. Clearly the route building has taken time and was perhaps a little ambitious - Lime Street looks fantastic. The locos look great and some of the detail is wonderful - I look forward to taking the time to explore a lot of the route on foot.

    The thing I'm most concerned about is the timetable - with so few services (we only passed one I think on the whole journey) it's going to be pretty empty until at least a couple of loco DLCs are released to fill in the gaps and bring it to life. Without loco DLCs, I think I'd be quite concerned about the playable longevity of the route.

    As others have already mentioned, we *really* need a 4MT tank DLC with some non-Mk1 coach stock, and some sort of appropriate shunter for the yards (Jinty most likely). For a little more variety (and perhaps the most appropriate DLC to bundle with OldVern 's catering vehicles) they could think about adding a Princess Coronation class for the bigger expresses.

    I think we'd then be looking at a much more complete piece of content.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  11. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    361
    Not entirely sure a 4MTT is actually appropriate as there weren't actually all that many allocated on the route in 1958, there were 2 Fairburns and 2 Stanier Tanks at Edge hill, and a single Fairburn and Single Stanier at Crewe North and thats it. To put that into perspective there were 88 locos allocated to Edge Hill, so the big tanks account for less than 5% of the sheds allocation, while Crewe North had 145 engines so the big tanks only account for 1.4% of the sheds allocation.

    Of the 4 sheds on the route the total number of engines in 1958 allocated to them is 421 or thereabouts.... and there are only 6 big tanks allocated to the sheds on the route, I really don't think there is a great deal of point.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    3,407
    Having recently watched the steam stream as a fan of TSW 2 rather than steam itself, the rolling stock does look great, but I can't help feel that just 135 services is nowhere near enough.

    As others have alluded to, a busy, exciting timetable (where appropriate of course) makes a route even better regarding playability and longevity. I understand that steam trains are new, and yes the driving experience here is probably the key part of Spirit of Steam, but I still think this route should be a whole lot busier considering there is Lime Street, Crewe and so on.

    It was mentioned in the stream that the timetable is the way it is because of community feedback regarding the 375 timetable from SEHS. I'd prefer if DTG would conduct another poll and/or more recent feedback from the community regarding busier timetables vs authenticity considering SEHS has now been out for ages - I mean since then we've ironically had the Rush Hour routes with the most services ever seen on TSW 2.

    For instance, London Commuter's timetable had a much busier timetable than it should of been, for example we had Milton Keynes services there (realistically these are operated by 377/2s with pantographs, not 377/1 and/or 4s), then you have the 375 services between Redhill and East Croydon etc. I was glad such services were included because it made the route much more exciting and busy, even if it wasn't completely 100% realistic, but this is a video game after all. So, if it was like this on LC, then why not for this Spirit of Steam route?

    Plus, if a route has space left in for future DLC, what about if this DLC never came, then the route might feel emptier than it should. I think there needs to be some consistency across routes and to find out currently what the community as a whole feels about such.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,163
    I do agree with the voices here criticising the timetable. Some of the yards shown in the stream looked positively gorgeous to me and it really is unfortunate that we won’t actually see them from inside a cab. I know that with steam being new and all, 2 engines is already a lot but I can’t help thinking that DTG really should have included a tank engine besides the 2 mainline ones to round off the timetable. The rolling stock itself looked impressive to me but it does feel a bit like DTG didn’t go the last mile in other areas. Here’s hoping that a loco DLC is already in planning despite what Matt said since I’m afraid the timetable will feel rather barren without one.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Does it risk being like LIRR where it’s a nice route with more traffic needed
     
  15. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    2,711
    What would have been the commonly allocated loco for local stopping services? Black Five perhaps?
     
  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    Yes getting a horrible Cathcartish feeling of deja vu here. I still need to track down the stream on YT and watch it but I know from the short section I saw, there was just the player train at Crewe, nothing else.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Given that DTG have seemingly given up on loco DLC I fear we are going to be waiting a long time before a 3rd party produces a reasonable steam loco DLC to help bring this route alive
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    did you not hear Matt on this topic ? They said they want to hold off the firing aspect because it’s very complex and they want to spend more time on it to get it right - which I actually think is commendable. They didn’t say it would never be a feature, just that they want more time. Something I wish Rivet would have done with that ghastly 150/2 sound and physics.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    The timetable is currently built around the two available engines.
    No point in changing it until we get more.
    Increasing services would only highlight the missing variety of the period.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    it does worry me as Cathcart I get bored after one service. It's like having a circle route on a board with nothing else in the loft in winter. Pick up for 5 put down for 40
     
  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    Though as I commented previously Gary, they have had months if not a year or two of lead in time to get the firing aspect - whether AI or player controlled - to the state which MSTS had 20 years ago, or their own TSC evolved from Rail Simulator in 2007. It should have been one of the top five items on the whiteboard at the initial conceptual meetings.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Following feedback from the community about journey mode basically meaning you're driving in the rain I've heard a rumour that the journey mode for this route is being renamed to "Wet weather wheelslip Wetventures"
    In the journey mode there will be not one pleasant weather to drive.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    2,711
    Fully agree that the two locos chosen are only doing 'realistic' services - but it really highlights how much the long-term playability of this DLC relies on locomotives (and the appropriate services) being added in the future. I'm a little nervous given how reluctant DTG have been to release loco add-ons over the last couple of years.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  24. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    No, because we need absolutely everything we ask for and we need it delivered yesterday and why are you being lazy gits? I'm suing you for false advertisement.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    What are we sacrificing to get that manual fireman, then? Probably a loco. In fact, we'd probably end up with a little branch line in the middle of nowhere - hardly befitting of the name "Spirit of Steam".
     
  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    As has been said before, the people working on 3D models or artwork are not necessarily the ones doing the coding.

    Let's not rose tint this. Watching the first few minutes of the stream has convinced me this has all the makings of being another fire and forget route, with the Pres Crew being mentioned before it even releases. Then we get a demo of having to use the large ejector to release brakes, a fairly complex step up from : and ', but not a decent fireman!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    True, but the people doing the setup and simugraph will likely be the same people working on the manual fireman. What's the point in using up art resources to make a loco that then does nothing?
     
  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    Well we can debate this until blue in the face, but I stand on my point that if they were going to do steam properly then the time, financial and manpower/coding skill hours should have taken this aspect into account from the very inception. Maybe a shorter, less complex route should have been adopted for the initial attempt.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to cancel my pre-order and I am looking forward to trying SoS out (it also makes any necessary constructive criticism more valid) but I am just concerned at the disconnect there seems to be between ambition and reality. Feel free to call me a pessimist or whinger but we went down this same route last year with London Commuter. A much heralded route which turned out to be only partly complete and a timetable which is a credit to its author, but simply could not work against the limited capability of the AI signaller and the ongoing erratic save game.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    One other quick thought off at a tangent from AI firemen and buffet cars.

    I caught the run through of the various scenarios and see there is something like a free roam where you can plod around in the sidings and make up your own consist. But what's the point if you can't actually then save these to use in scenario planner later on?
     
  30. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    I've heard Matt when he stated that Boston Sprinter cab signalling would be fixed quickly after release yet still its broken.

    I heard DTG tell us that scenario planner 2.0 was in progress for it to then be dropped from the roadmap as the project was put "on hold".

    I heard on release that Bakerloo would get an update busy timetable when it was released and its taken 2 years.

    So you will excuse me if I have zero faith in what DTG promise us will be added after release especially with no timetable on when this will be done.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
    • Like Like x 13
  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    As I said above, they are already talking about farming it off to the Pres Crew before it's even out!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  32. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    For me, it will be a completely new experience in the gameplay category. I don't know how realistic. The chance for any comparisons will be even smaller than before. How authentic? I was born long enough ago to use such trains as a passenger. What I saw during the stream is very close to what I experienced decades ago. Great sounds. As for TSW - outstanding. BR o7
     
  33. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Of course we want more and what we get now is not enough. But, if we refuse to buy this product DTG has no carrot to continue development fro steam. So I buy it and I will be happy with what I get but I will keep spamming these forums fort a shunting DLC and manual fireman and a Dutch route. A Dutch steam route would be great btw. There have been many engines from UK origin in the earlier days of steam.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    My anticipation for this route has dropped somewhat after seeing the very short number of services, this could be another East Coastway route where I only go on it a handful of times and it gathers dust.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    Some people just like to have a mess around in a yard. That type of scenario has proven relatively popular on other routes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I think there will be 1-2 DLCs. The collecting aspect is widely praised e.g. layers. Tees Valley Line is a good example :)
     
  37. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Until we see Loco DLCs and manual firemen on the roadmap I'll assume there is nothing in the pipeline and my wallet will likely remain shut, after all as DTG keep reiterating, "If its not on the roadmap its not being worked on"
     
    • Like Like x 5
  38. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,163
    I think the best thing to do is to assume that manual firing will never happen as long as there are no patch notes (or similar) delivering it. As your examples point out, there’s a long history of stuff supposedly coming after release but then never seeing the light of day (anyone else still remembering the CRR SD40 horn which just about didn’t make it for release but will be added shortly after?). Personally speaking, the lack of manual firing is more or less irrelevant to me as I’m not interested in it (for now at least) but it would be prudent to make up one’s mind about getting SoS with the assumption that manual firing will never come.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,423
    Likes Received:
    18,140
    Anything DTG say that will be fixed and/or added post release, I have zero faith in them doing so.

    How many times have they said x, y & z bug will be fixed for it to never see the day of light? The 313 was supposed to be fixed shortly after release yet quite literally months later, we are still waiting for a single fix for it to be released.

    The route itself suffers from classic ‘not finished but just release it anyway’ syndrome. Whilst the stations themselves are visually pleasing, quite a large amount of areas, specifically the countryside, look very rushed and bland looking. Yards look like they were laid on mud. Horrible looking terrain with little to no variety in ground textures. Just massive areas of the horrible 2D plain green grass texture sprawling in every direction. The missing line side fences were raised, but this was excused as the route didn’t have many back in the day.

    I’d rather them be honest than constantly making up excuses.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  40. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    1,120
    If only we had the tools... :|
     
    • Like Like x 3
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,734
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    It seems that DTG can never win with y'all. They definitely heard the wailing and caterwauling when 'wrong' trains were substituted to provide extra services, like the 422 on SKA or the 377 on ECW- and (as Matt said) they are no longer going to do that. So now we get wailing and caterwauling because we aren't seeing shunting and yard piloting done by 8Fs and Jubilees!

    Anyone who thought that a route involving as much from-scratch work as this was going to include more than 2 new locomotives is mental.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,734
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    Right. Because TSC and all the other train sims out there have loco-building editors.......
     
  43. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    It actually does.
    upload_2022-5-21_14-9-44.png
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  44. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    All the other trains sims dont have simugraph, until DTG actually allow access to this more widely how do you expect people to create locos for TSW?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    I think the manual fireman has to be clarified in the next stream:
    Is it promised to arrive? Is it being worked on now? Is DTG confident it is actually feasible?
    What rough timescale is it (i.e. a month or two or more like a year?)
    Will it be a free upgrade for owners of the Liverpool-Crewe route?

    This can't be another Bakerloo timetable situation, that can't be allowed to happen. Having a basic feature set that is inferior to TSC just won't cut it anymore. This is why people were asking about the different driving modes, they were implying can I choose to automate some parts or do it all myself? The answer is you have no choice, you don't get to do those tasks yourself. So the safeties keep firing off all the time (which would normally make you think, I could be doing a better job myself...) but you don't get that choice.

    The fact that the wheels were blurred, the fireman wasn't even animated, suggest the playable version is a bit different to the expected launch feature set, which in turn makes me think they'd rather have sorted that out before the first stream. Also I thought that Matt wasn't up on some of these things and they were a suprise when he saw them, which is also a bit worrying...

    So we have some features which have already been announced as being absent at launch, and others which were notably absent despite being a big plus point to the route. Hoping this gets cleared up on Tuesday.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  46. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    I dont think anyone was expecting more than 2 locos included, but what I and I suspect many others did expect was concrete promises and perhaps even details of forthcoming loco addons.

    What we wasnt expecting was no manual fireman and Matt stating that theres no loco DLC in the works.
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,734
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    It has been known for some time now that there is NO DLC in the works at present, because they are going to take a bit of time after SOS releases to work on systemic reforms. That does not mean that there will be no DLC for Liverpool-Crewe, just that they aren't working on any now.
     
  48. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    The roadmap would disagree with you, according to that we have an unnamed German and an unnamed USA route in early stages of production. If they can be on the road map then theres zero reason why a steam loco DLC cant be also.
     
  49. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,679
    Likes Received:
    13,792
    So i investigated the wheel blur issue some more and it seems unique to Series X annoyingly - when I tried it on PS4, XB1 and PC it was all fine! I've passed that info on to the engineering team and they are investigating what tickbox hasnt been ticked :)

    Fireman animation - has been changing on a daily basis at the moment and I wasn't clear on where the build was right at that moment.

    We'll have more clarity in the next stream :)
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Helpful Helpful x 7
  50. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    839
    Thanks for the update TrainSim-Matt will things like the injectors working (including sounds) be part of the animations or are that going to be part of future manual firing updates?
     

Share This Page