Spirit Of Steam Stream Feedback Thread... And More Importantly...

Regarding the lack of track joint sounds, was this not picked up early in route development or was this a last minute bug?

Seems really unfortunate that there will be no ‘clickety-clack’ sounds on what was a very noisy railway. The MK1s without their classic joint sounds whilst at speed will just feel and sound odd.

 

I'm presuming the no track sound extends to points and crossings too. A bit of a showstopper as you say for a steam era route. They might have got away with it on a modern era route but not this. Given that routes like NTP and TVL have quite good track sounds, what on earth slipped or changed in the editing process to cause this?

 

Starting at 2:33:15 in the livestream on youtube is that track joint sounds I can hear from the conflat wagons?

 

Quite agree, it’s a fundamental part of the era, I think they need to fix it before release, even if that means a slight delay. Hopefully its easily fixable, but they’ve been trialling the route internally for a while now so you’d think it was noticed early on, but it seemed to be only noticed at the first live stream (like many things!)

 

I thought that was just the sounds of the wagons themselves. Not specifically moving over track joints. I could be wrong though.

 

That must be the case as by their own admission there are no track sounds.

 

If we continue on asking for extra AI or services, we may end up with a BR Blue 47 with MK2 coaches and no brake coach + a class 101 to bulk it up..

 

Built by train enthusiasts for train enthusiasts (minus sound)

 

Don't give them ideas!

 

I am definitely not buying until that is fixed. Probs waiting for a sale. May go for an American freight route while the sale is on instead.

 

Same here. Eyeing up the TSC 8F and Jubilee, also China Clay recommended due to my delight over Maerdy. So the money will still end up with DTG, just on something tried and tested. Enough left over I might even grab the North Somerset or Malmesbury routes.

 

I am torn on this now, it looked so much better last night being streamed on the PC. I loved the clear view from the cab without having to use the heads out below, something you often have to do in TS Classic. It looked very good and seemed to convey the atmosphere of the era.

However the lack of track joint sounds is a major minus point towards it, as said in this era the railway was noisy and the sounds of heavy steam engines moving over points and the clickety clack of carriages over track joints are so much a part of the character of the steam age. Without those it will kill the immersion.

I likely will purchase it as I don't want to put DTG off producing more content like this.

However, it will definatley need more DLC, I would say two more engines at least, as there would have been so much variety in this area.

 

I recommend the TSC 8F, well all the Bossman games loco's, the Merchant Navy is wonderful. Malmesbury is a lovely little route, great for shunting and pottering about on. The Victory Works 58xx is very fitting for it as I think they were very common on this branch.

 

Shame there doesn't look to be an option to have an 8F on Mk1s, Was thinking about buying it then setting up own runs just with the 8F.
Yes its a goods loco but obviously there were times it stepped up to replace a failed loco on passenger or hell they worked the S&D in 1965 1966 on passenger, just not in winter cause of no steam heat.

 

According to the stream last night, there was no coal on the shovel. Is that a bug or intentional?

 

Probably a bug but doubtful it will be fixed on release, I feel the coal should reduce in the tender also

 

I think Matt said yesterday, that over time you can actually see the coal on the tender going down. But of course it won't be that impactful as the route is too short to see a great change in coal load on the tender.

 

Believe me the firing rate it currently depicts (safety valve feature) , I would expect half a tender less once I reach the end

 

Ugh!
I've just watched last nights stream and I have to say that overall I'm hugely disappointed.

The look of the route I actually really like, it's excellent! However the (what I consider mad!) decision to only have prototypical services means it is totally lifeless. As if it's set after an apocalypse! Wandering around Crewe station at 13:05 for 10 minutes and not a single service in sight. Nothing moving around the yards. It's horrible! After being genuinely delighted the first time I tried West Somerset and saw an AI engine run around it's coaches the thought of being able to jump back in time and train spot at a busy station in the steam era made me so excited for TSW steam. What a wasted opportunity.
Oh and the confirmation in the stream that "no additional locos are currently planned".

Sounds - or lack thereof. No track joints! Sitting in the coach on a preserved line train what are the sensations? The distant chuff of the loco (depending how far back you are!) and the endless clickety clack telling you that you've stepped back into the past.
But not in TSW. They are "broken" and Matt says they will try to fix them at some point but no promises. Again, madness.
Shovelling coal in total silence. Yeah.
Safeties and fire management have been covered extensively elsewhere but the bottom line is shunting and slow yard work is a no go - you'll be deaf after 10 minutes. 3 massive yards, a lovely freight engine but it's all going to be end to end, A to B runs if you want to keep your sanity.
When is fire management coming? Don't know.

And this is the big one...
The driver doesn't have an iPhone to tell him the time. Also the passengers aren't wearing puffer jackets and Levi Jeans. And the stations don't have digital display boards.
What? What did I say wrong? This is set in 1958 you say? Ohhh, I didn't realise that because the footplate crew are made up of every race and gender so I assumed that we are now in historical fantasy land where anything can go in any time period.
On preserved lines, absolutely go for it! It's 2022 and all people can do all things.
But in 1958 - no. I know it's a political hot potato but it's utterly immersion breaking for a route that is saying it's set in this time period. I was excited that an in-cab fireman would help make TSW feel more immersive than TSC, it turns out that this now makes it feel LESS immersive.
How about a menu option that says "Historically Accurate Crew - Off/On". You can even default it to Off to show how modern and progressive DTG is.

I've known BigVern for a long time and we've locked horns on many occasions and on many forums but on this we are very much aligned.. this product feels unfinished. And with the constant assertion of "we're not promising to fix/add anything" I just can't see it being something I'll want to keep coming back to after the initial "Oo, it's a bit prettier than TSC" has worn off.

I shall finish this semi-rant with a single sentence that Matt said whilst discussing the in-team Easter egg that they add to each route
"Quite a lot of work went into the donkey"

Maybe next time, less donkey and more train?

 

Least there's no containers.

 

Your mistake. Conflats are containers.

 

I do not dare say I agree (I do not want to be cancelled) but it is an issue. It is even worse if you select a female player avatar. Another you can't have it all. For me it is not a big issue.. What is worse is that the firewoman looks so clean. No dirt at all.I think that is really offensive.

 

Problem is, will this get picked up by the Company who creates this game/sim (dependent on whether it's either or a game/sim due to pointers highlighted above) I do hope victory work's comments do get picked up because they are extremely valid points that need implementing into this DLC. Particularly the AI/Service mode as it is a ghost route, it's ridiculous.

 

I am certainly one who doesn't want to see unrealistic layers but on the premise more DLC is to come, a Jubilee/8F with four mark 1's could be included on local services to be replaced by any future DLC representing a local train, i.e. a Stanier 5mt and carriages.

Certainly AI trains going through Crewe on the WCML would be a no brainer I would have thought, and going off to Chester and North Wales. Also trains going down the north and west route through the Marches. I do think though you would soon tire of seeing just Jubilees and 8F's, what will (hopefully) really bring this route to life will be the addition of more DLC and then being in the position where you do not know which type of loco will turn up on the next train, similarly to what you get on NTP.

It certainly needs more life, if more DLC is definitely to be added in the future I personally would be happy to wait but it was a bit too quiet.

 

I couldn’t believe how dead Crewe looked - what was (and still is to this day to some extent) a bustling railway station, with lots of moments.

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry, but it was honestly quite embarrassing to see Crewe a ghost town when it was around 13:00 in the afternoon. I don’t think I saw a single AI service, or even anything being shunted in the yards.

For anyone that knows Crewe well, it really was an insult to see it look so dead. Not to mention it’s a massive immersion breaker.

 

What would your solution to that be? Fill it up with imaginary 8F shunting services?

 

I did notice there's a lot being swept up in the "focusing on the driving experience " first for this route however some of the elements of the driving experience have been omitted.

I recall my first model railway. A 6 x 4 ft board with a one plastic station, a class 47 and some coaches. No scenery , no noise, Barron. We're not quite there with this by any stretch but there's things that have always been present in other routes left out. That grass looks nasty too. I can't unsee some of those banks.

There was a comment made , clarified quickly about gen 8 consoles, I can't help think that route ambition has been wound in to gen 8 acceptability's whilst there's still a cash pot there at the expense of the "driving experience" ?

I'll be glad when the courage and commercial sense is there to put development to bed for them

 

I think I should clarify that my position might not be common in that having only had TSW2 for a couple of months and having thousands of hours in TSC I come at this from a position of "Why do I want to spend my time playing TSW2 when I have TSC? What's better?"
I'm also a history buff and lover of realistic simulation - hence my own Pro locos.

If TSW2 goes down a different road, pretty pretty but with little substance, then I'm ok with that. I'll get back to my TSC and no harm done. It just feels like a real shame that the things that TSW does do really well over TSC (AI that can run around and shunt, full 24 hour timetables you can just jump into, being able to be a "person" rather than a loco and wander around in the world) might never be used in a decent simulation of the steam era of railways.
I can't really judge the situation currently as all I've driven so far in TSW are dizzels and electrics and I have NO idea how those work in reality. They seem "realistic" as I have to press buttons and turn dials, etc. and they look fine to my eyes but I've nothing to compare that to as I've never driven them in a realistic sim or in real life. Kettles I have.

 

A future Steam loco DLC may fix this issue, but for now, I think for quite a few people they will hold off purchasing SOS until this happens.

I have no knowledge of Steam locos, but perhaps a ‘mixed use’ Steam loco (if one exists) would’ve been a better choice.

 

When a highly respected developer for TSC is saying this, then DTG should be sitting up and taking notice. There seems to be a lack of humility about what has transpired which questions my confidence in them to actually fix the problem.

I have now requested a refund on my pre-order but will continue to watch developments and if/when I feel things have improved sufficiently then I will revisit a purchase.

 

We had this already in Leeds and Manchester Vic on NTP and to an understandable extent in Cathcart, with Rush hour maybe we expect too much? Problem is that really the route needs 3 more loco types, a shunter of some sort, a jack of all trades Black 5 and a Big pacific Duchess or Coronation. A Royal Scot would be ok instead of the pacific I guess...

The dev team just cant justify 4 or 5 loco types for a £24.99 DLC so I understand that but its a proper waste if its not built in for the future. My main gripe is the lack of track sounds most other stuff including lack of AI I can probably live with (for now).

 

Overall I'm happy with what the streams have shown and I will be getting this on the 31st. The lack of the track joints is annoying, hopefully the issues surrounding that can be resolved quickly in period after the release. Also it is disappointing that this route will suffer with Gen 8 issues and consequently we'll see less variety in these busy yards. Hopefully we can still have volume of static rolling stock as previously we have been told that volume of rolling stock isn't the main cause.

As for DLC this route is obviously in dire need of extra locos. It would be nice if we got these in loco packs like on NTP, so that I would't have to purchase multiple locos in order to bulk up services.

 

My view is while ever that Matt is in charge of development, TSW2 will eventually die. I don't trust a word he says "we're looking into it", "it's a tooling problem" etc... I'd be horrified to be releasing a Steam train without track joint noise... This isn't a personal dig in anyway at the chap, I'd buy him a beer, but the laid back attitude of "this is how it'll be released" and you may or may not get improvements. I hate that.

 

If this is the case, im done with dtg products. I dont touch tsc anymore since 2018, & tsw got me because of the phenomenal details. So a slow and slightly approach to shiny products with low substance to keep it running on last gen will stop me from spending any more time into the franchise.

"No promise for a fix of the joint sounds...". Hell no promise from me for a future as a backer...!

Im surrounded by trains every day at work. The only thing i would miss is the sandbox style and messing around without the whole workload of 10 maintenance projects parallel.

 

Don't know why they didn't do a main line with fewer services at a slightly latter date so the whole thing doesn't look so empty...

The GCR in the mid sixties would have been ideal. It could be filled by a Black five on London passenger services and a 9F on the Windcutter freights. You could also have had the existing diesel 37 or 47 on cross country services and a 101 on locals. Plus much of the railway is still there and there are loads of videos and published information on the bits that aren't...

 

Indeed. I just have this feeling Crewe to Liverpool was forced on them to keep the Big Boss happy and they simply got overwhelmed by the vastness of it all, such that we are now seeing everything that got missed or left out. GC was in my previous wishlist signature, but another candidate would have been the S&D as it was in Rail Simulator/Railworks, heck Settle to Appleby - we would have grumbled about a route from nowhere to nowhere but it would have been far better in terms of what they needed to build and a believable service level.l

 

Something felt a bit off in the response to the lack of track joint sounds. For a such a long awaited addition of steam engines that will likely bring in many new customers I can't understand the relaxed approach to issues such as this...

You can only make a first impression once.

My understanding from Matt's response is that they will look into it, but won't commit to a timescale for fixing it and if it is too hard they might just leave it as is.

I don't want to end on a negative because excluding a few things that should be minor bug fixes pre or post release, really, come on DTG. It generally looks really promising and I can't wait to try it out, the 8f actually looked engaging to drive.

 

This is quite an appropriate article recently published about gen 8 and cross platform

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-original-xbox-one-cross-gen-analysis

 

This is the problem. Run 8 sort of fills the gap for the US but costs a fortune if you want all the routes and train sets. There’s also no structured scenarios or timetable to operate to. For everywhere else it’s either TSC, MSTS under Open Rails or Heaven forbid Trainz. Then there are the niche products like DRS but essentially DTG have the monopoly.

 

Especially considering the console market which, as we know, is roughly 2/3 of TSW’s customer base. On consoles, DTG don’t essentially have a monopoly - they have a literal monopoly.

 

Locomotives look good. But after looking at the 8F stream, the scenery is so much yikes.

 

Well about the Route and amount of services as steam fan, i think is worth to be patient for next few years and steam releases. This is a premiere and the amount of content will grow (similar to german content), so future routes can be released with the original high variety. Also DTG can add local services even with the first "steam loco dlc".

Yes crewe might be looking not as busy because all the shunting & other local services are missing, but Rome wasnt built in 1 day either. Important for me is dtg has to keep up their quality. Content will grow with time, slow but it will, but if the community has to beg for correct track sounds with every dlc, its just sending the wrong signal.

Cmon Dtg, you put so much effort into your projects. Why is the lack of basic elements getting discussed currently a lot in this forum?..ouch, you can do better. Still nice you got the giant trackside with the signalling correct.

 

Another thing I didn’t quite understand was the reason why we still have no guard operating the doors. The reason given was because new and existing players are familiar with the current ‘on-screen’ controls, with you (the player) operating the doors, or something along those lines.

Though that’s not in the slightest way realistic for quite a significant amount of trains we drive in TSW. Especially for a Steam operated service.

I would’ve thought DTG would’ve developed a system for this by now, especially given them Steam has been on the cards for years.

Some of the decisions made are really quite questionable, and makes you want to bang your head at times.

 

I can't understand not automating the doors. I get I don't have access to the code base but honestly, they have the required messages in code already - we know this because when tips are on they tell you "Open the doors" "Close the doors", so just take those messages and fire the HUD button events that open and close the train doors.
I get that writing a realistic steam boiler is a complex operation and no doubt it has and will take a lot of man hours, but taking already existing events (has the player stopped at a station they were due to stop at and should open the doors, and, is it time to leave and the player needs to close the doors) and wiring them to trigger other events that already exist seems like it "should" be very simple.

 

This had got me thinking , in its simplest form is a man with a whistle stand by the train on the load and unload? Is this awkward because of platform placements etc always being different

 

In its absolute simplest form, you can have it the way TSC works. Have it so the driver opens the doors via a keyboard button (removes the horrible UI overlay) with the doors then automatically closing (by a guard) at the appropriate time. As you mentioned, a whistle can be added for added authenticity.

It isn’t ideal but it’s much better than the current fictional system we have now. Surely DTG can at least handle that?!

 

Plenty of Pacifics to be seen at Crewe, but not many went to Liverpool (or Manchester), because those lines were relatively flat. You needed a Duchess to get an express over Shap!

 

Please can someone tell me why they are releasing as a BETA DLC and not the full complete product? (excluding unforeseen bugs)

 

I would imagine pressure from on high both fiscal and Paul Jackson mithering for “his” Crewe experience. Though it would be interesting to learn his thoughts on the debacle. However the fiscal may backfire anyway if others like myself have refunded the pre-purchase and there are further refunds from dissatisfied customers on release.

So I repeat again to DTG, either pull this until it’s properly ready, or offer at a suitable early access/may never get fixed price.

 

Though I will be buying this route around release, and do think some of the feedback (especially that directed specifically at Matt) is overly harsh I do also have some issues with the route as is.

Firstly the already adressed joint sounds. Now this is not a QA issue (after all it had been detected before the streams and is already being investigated). It would be best for the players' faith in DTG if this was solved swiftly after release.

Then there's the scenery, which does sit below the standard we're used to from the past few releases. To my understanding this has mostly been done out of performance grounds, but it's rather dissapointing to me. Parts feel empty or plasticy to me, though I found it hard to completely judge from the streams how severe this actually is. I had expectes better though, looking at routes like DRA, DCZ and BML that have considerably more detail.

Lastly, and for me the biggest one, is the safety valve constantly going off if you're not actively accelerating a lot. It's a very intrusive noise that drowns out all the other quite well made sounds that I'm searching for in steam (but hey, at least you won't miss the track joint sounds ). I really hope there will be some solution to this soon.

There are also some things others have given negative feedback on that I don't mind personally. Yes the route is empty as is, but services are accurate. The route has tons op potential for future DLC that will populate it in an accurate way, and DTG (and 3rd parties) would do good in utilising this potential as soon as possible. As long as there's a loco DLC or maybe even two before the end of the year I do think this is the way to go (rather than inaccurate services or a more calm route). The inaccuracy in train staff ethnicity and gender doesn't bother me in the slightest and DTG as a company in modern times would have gotten flak for the staff whichever way they would have decided. They've chosen for inclusivity over accuracy, and that might understandably upset some, but not me.

As I said, I will be buying the route probably, but I do have some issues with it. I'll hope (but won't assume) that these are in some manner adressed soon.