Semi-auto Fireman

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Monder, May 23, 2022.

  1. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion, still has to depict the era and this would have been remarkably uncommon
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Brings a whole new meaning to the song lyrics, "Come on baby, light my fire..."
     
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  3. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    What woke dumb libtarded something something somethings.

    </sarcasm>
     
  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Almost every post on this forum could be prefixed with "in my opinion..."
     
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  5. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    ... in your opinion

    ;)
     
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  6. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    The G6 scenario fix has been waiting months to be tested, the PZB bug on RT again waiting on testing. These are small minor issues compared with a semi manual fireman system which up to a week ago wasn't expected to be ready for release. Now after the engineers worked their magic it's now ready to be included. The word engineers is the concerning bit. Had it been the just been the team or QA who had pushed through to get this added I could have believed it's been thoroughly tested. But Matt specifically stated engineers.
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Re the fireman, I think it's more the case this has been touted as a time capsule in simulation form (minus all the unfinished/broken bits) but straight away we have a female fire(wo)man which would never have been encountered in that time era.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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  8. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Look just getting the fireman/woman/they looking out the window in the right direction when running tender first would be a start
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess all those who have female driver avatars need to be forced to change for anything before a certain date?
     
  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is a subtle difference between what a player chooses as their avatar and an actual figure portrayed in the game. Either it's a historical route or fantasy presentation. However compares to the other issues I would agree it's relatively minor at this point.
     
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  11. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I thought they look both ways?

    Surprised you haven't wheeled out the 'political messaging' line yet.
     
  12. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's that the fireman looks both ways regardless of which way you are driving. Should be looking out forward when going forward and then behind when in reverse..
     
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  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's a game... I don't remember anyone saying that it's historically accurate to a fault (else I'm going back to the matter of Gillingham Crossing bridge and you can beat them up with dining cars again)...
    Totally minor, but then I didn't bring it up!
     
  14. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I can't even believe we are having a discussion on the whys and why nots of having female avaters in game.

    I'll have to stop following this thread so I don't get moderated again. Jeez
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure BR employed no firewomen in 1958
     
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  16. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Happy to understand your reasonings.
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Exist on at least the Clinchfield F7 also
     
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  18. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Here's a screenshot from the previous stream to keep the crybabies happy
    upload_2022-5-25_14-58-53.png

    I can see where you're coming from though, in that it isn't exactly the most accurate thing to have a woman on the footplate* but my woke libtarded something something something reaction to seeing the fireman have boobs was a neutral "oh ok".

    *It probably did happen, just as there was probably a fireman that wasn't white, just that it wouldn't be that common.

    Unrelated,
    They're in quite a few DLCs, actually, not just TVL, so it is a little strange it's not in this (although they are really slow and kind of break the flow I find).
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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  19. Kevinsim1046

    Kevinsim1046 Active Member

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    Now you guys mention it, I do recall other DLCs having it, just been playing TVL a lot lately, so that’s what I thought of when I thought of this. I find the animations are best on the class 20 chopper. It feels and looks as though one is climbing up into the cab, I really do believe it would work very well on a steam loco. This instant jump into the cab I find very jarring and immersion breaking.
     
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  20. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion (a required prefix it seems these days) animations in just about all simulations (as opposed to some games) are pretty unconvincing, which is why I ignore them (if I can't turn them off)
     
  21. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    Omitted to state I refer to people/animals, not machines
     
  22. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    I can cope with female fireman (it's ahistorical PC nonsense but it's the world we live in). I can't cope with watching a Fireman shovelling invisible coal! That is just absurd...
     
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  23. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Well the NPC used reminds me of Bob from Blackadder, as in you have to look hard to see they are female, so that is the fireman/woman named now :) "Bob"

    You can imagine the lady is a keen steam fan and has to hide her real gender in 1958 so she can do her real dream job.

    And then you have to be thankful that people aren't stuck in pigeonholes any more due to events beyond their control.
     
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  24. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    I think people forget what a physically demanding job being a fireman was. How many men today could shovel coal for more than eight hours, let alone women...? That's why women weren't queuing up to be firemen and increasingly even young men were looking for other careers leading to labour shortages in some areas of railway operation in this period
     
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  25. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what women do when men are at war? The make the weapons, from guns to tanks.
    Please, never underestimate women! They are truly remarkable in everything they do!
     
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  26. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    That was not the point, it's 1958 and not 1940's. So please remember that when we speak about this subject. Not discriminating, just a big pointer.
     
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  27. JellyScrub

    JellyScrub Active Member

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    I honestly can't believe that so many people are upset that a woman is in a video game. It's a game. This isn't a museum piece or a history book. Its a video game.
     
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  28. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Are we going to get the same complaints if DTG release a Southern USA passenger route set in the 40's or 50's and there's a none white person sat down in a carriage next to a white person or just sat on a station bench?
     
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  29. JellyScrub

    JellyScrub Active Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  30. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    So to play devil's advocate...
    Are you're ok if the Jubilee is painted in Pepsi colours so DTG can get some sweet advertising revenue, and if the driver has an iPhone that flips up on screen so you can play Candy Crush if you get bored waiting at a station?
    Why did they bother putting in all the correct signalling? Just chuck in a bunch of coloured lights. And concrete sleepers. They're only sleepers after all, don't waste dev time making wooden ones. All those yards will barely get used, just leave them out rather than spend all that time placing them down. Crewe doesn't need a dozen platforms, it's just a game, 4 platforms is plenty. Don't waste time recreating all those signal box variations and finding out their real locations, just throw down a single type anywhere you feel like and be done with it. We don't need Mark 1 coaches, just repaint some Mark 3s, and for rolling stock just put some old looking paint on the modern hoppers. Why did they change the passenger clothing to be more like 1950's? It doesn't matter, it's a video game.
    Where does "it's a video game" end as a reason to just do anything they want rather than recreating a historical setting accurately?
     
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  31. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    It's a bloody simulator, are you not aware of this?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
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  32. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Don't bother joining this thread to come up with your comments.

    It is a simulation of driving trains, what you have to realise is the external is just as crucial as the internal.
     
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  33. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    It's telling and says alot that no one who is moaning about the appearance /gender of the fireman is complaining that they were too clean. Which for me is a bigger immersion killer. If you look at any pictures of a fireman in a steam loco they are nearly always soot covered. I'd rather this was duplicated in game along with track joint sounds, coal on the shovel etc etc before we start looking at the gender of the crew.

    Just my 2 pence
     
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  34. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree. I never knew Satin trousers were a thing in the late 50's

    There is requirements needed where the AI simulation should look and feel vintage as it was in the yesteryear.
     
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  35. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    It says that it's easier to excuse a situation that happened sometimes (crew would be pretty clean at the start of the day) as opposed to a situation that NEVER happened.
    And track joint sounds (a bug that might get fixed) and coal on the shovel (a bug that will likely get fixed) have been discussed and explained by DTG staff.
     
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  36. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Welp, this topic is about to get worse now, much like the colorful containers that were first showed from Sherman Hill (ya know the ones I'm talking about). Let's just hope it doesn't get locked then, and that's all I'm gonna say here. See ya. *poof!*
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
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  37. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I certainly hope not, being a retired military officer that went from an all male service to what we have today, my hat is off to the women who have served, especially the icebreakers who were first. Not only did they have to be good… they had to excel to overcome the opinionated [removed - JD - language] of the time. I rated my crew by their skills and dedication to their jobs and duty, not their sex. So I have no problem to allow a bit of modification of the old ways in a train simulation. If it ruins your immersion, so sorry that one can be so easily distracted by such a minor nod to today’s environment when it is totally immaterial to driving a locomotive. I guarantee you I have served with some women on my crews that would put most civilian men to shame for what they could physically accomplish.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2022
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  38. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes showing the past as it really was helps educate people about past injustices and evils - and helps youngsters realise how much progress we've made and what we still need to do.

    Hiding past injustice or sanitising the past doesn't help anyone. No one would produce a WW2 game that depicted Nazi Germany as a liberal inclusive LGBTQ+ friendly community... I hope...

    Yes, this is only a game, but games can be powerful.
     
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  39. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I'll disagree on that, no way on a arrival into Liverpool should a crew man (driver or fireman) be ever clean, it wouldnt happen and lets not pretend otherwise.

    There maybe an argument that at the start of a run the faces etc would be clean, but by the end no I dont buy that at all. Theres no excuse for this period.
     
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  40. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Be interesting how DTG would manage a 1930's German steam route, I mean by rights youd have swastikas adjourning most official buildings (including stations) but that would actually make the game illegal to be sold in some markets. Probably best just avoiding the whole era will be the best way forward.
     
  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I suspect at this point we probably need to redirect from the gender etc. of the footplate crews to more pressing matters…
     
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  42. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well they get away with it in movies, somehow. Watched “The Book Thief” last night (excellent and very moving) and there were swastikas everywhere, even on the trains and railway stations so it must have been filmed somewhere that allowed it. Have to say though, even though many years have passed and very few people are still alive from the WWII era, the sight of the swastika still sends a chill down my spine.
     
  43. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Please can someone tell me why they are releasing as a BETA DLC and not the full complete product? (excluding unforeseen bugs)
     
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  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    • because they need the money
    • because someone in the management team has decided "it's good enough"
    • because they've moved significant amounts of developers off of the project onto the next thing
    • because it's what DTG have always done (google "dovetail flywheel")
    Take your pick
     
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  45. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget the QA team who have never spent a single day on a railway by the looks of things... How on earth they have approved this in the state it is currently in is beyond me.
     
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  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The Beta testers more than QA from what I understand. QA testing in DTG terms are more targetted testers for specific things, so unless "Does the fireman work as they would in 1958?" was the question they may not have found a similar answer to what you would
     
  47. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    "Dovetail Flywheel" is exactly what we thought was going on, and going wrong, but is apparently a company policy.

    From the CDO: Our simulations are for ever evolving as we work a very effective flywheel of efficiency, productivity, and quality.

    From an anonymous employee on glassdoor: Depending on what you're working on, it's essentially a conveyor belt production line. Dovetail aim to churn out content to saturate their chosen hobby (Flight, fishing or Trains). This leads to rushed content and a well known reputation for shoddy work. One of the biggest cons is that it doesn't look like this is going to change. Dovetail are focused on the 'Dovetail flywheel', a concept where a game is created, and then content is created for it endlessly. This works in some cases (Train Simulator 2017), but not others (Flight Sim world).
     
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  48. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Define the "full complete product"
     
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    QA is concerned with "does it crash?" not "shouldn't there be fences?"
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
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  50. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    A product that depicts the era it was set. For example, 1958 Crewe did not have 0 locos/services at 1pm in the afternoon. Partial fencing, track sounds, coal on a shovel. None have a certain fix promised by the developers(DTG).

    I won't even detail much as I stand by my statement.
     
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