Re the fireman, I think it's more the case this has been touted as a time capsule in simulation form (minus all the unfinished/broken bits) but straight away we have a female fire(wo)man which would never have been encountered in that time era.
Then I guess all those who have female driver avatars need to be forced to change for anything before a certain date?
There is a subtle difference between what a player chooses as their avatar and an actual figure portrayed in the game. Either it's a historical route or fantasy presentation. However compares to the other issues I would agree it's relatively minor at this point.
I believe it's that the fireman looks both ways regardless of which way you are driving. Should be looking out forward when going forward and then behind when in reverse..
It's a game... I don't remember anyone saying that it's historically accurate to a fault (else I'm going back to the matter of Gillingham Crossing bridge and you can beat them up with dining cars again)... Totally minor, but then I didn't bring it up!
Here's a screenshot from the previous stream to keep the crybabies happy I can see where you're coming from though, in that it isn't exactly the most accurate thing to have a woman on the footplate* but my woke libtarded something something something reaction to seeing the fireman have boobs was a neutral "oh ok". *It probably did happen, just as there was probably a fireman that wasn't white, just that it wouldn't be that common. Unrelated, They're in quite a few DLCs, actually, not just TVL, so it is a little strange it's not in this (although they are really slow and kind of break the flow I find).
Now you guys mention it, I do recall other DLCs having it, just been playing TVL a lot lately, so that’s what I thought of when I thought of this. I find the animations are best on the class 20 chopper. It feels and looks as though one is climbing up into the cab, I really do believe it would work very well on a steam loco. This instant jump into the cab I find very jarring and immersion breaking.
In my opinion (a required prefix it seems these days) animations in just about all simulations (as opposed to some games) are pretty unconvincing, which is why I ignore them (if I can't turn them off)
I can cope with female fireman (it's ahistorical PC nonsense but it's the world we live in). I can't cope with watching a Fireman shovelling invisible coal! That is just absurd...
Well the NPC used reminds me of Bob from Blackadder, as in you have to look hard to see they are female, so that is the fireman/woman named now "Bob" You can imagine the lady is a keen steam fan and has to hide her real gender in 1958 so she can do her real dream job. And then you have to be thankful that people aren't stuck in pigeonholes any more due to events beyond their control.
I think people forget what a physically demanding job being a fireman was. How many men today could shovel coal for more than eight hours, let alone women...? That's why women weren't queuing up to be firemen and increasingly even young men were looking for other careers leading to labour shortages in some areas of railway operation in this period
Do you know what women do when men are at war? The make the weapons, from guns to tanks. Please, never underestimate women! They are truly remarkable in everything they do!
That was not the point, it's 1958 and not 1940's. So please remember that when we speak about this subject. Not discriminating, just a big pointer.
I honestly can't believe that so many people are upset that a woman is in a video game. It's a game. This isn't a museum piece or a history book. Its a video game.
So to play devil's advocate... Are you're ok if the Jubilee is painted in Pepsi colours so DTG can get some sweet advertising revenue, and if the driver has an iPhone that flips up on screen so you can play Candy Crush if you get bored waiting at a station? Why did they bother putting in all the correct signalling? Just chuck in a bunch of coloured lights. And concrete sleepers. They're only sleepers after all, don't waste dev time making wooden ones. All those yards will barely get used, just leave them out rather than spend all that time placing them down. Crewe doesn't need a dozen platforms, it's just a game, 4 platforms is plenty. Don't waste time recreating all those signal box variations and finding out their real locations, just throw down a single type anywhere you feel like and be done with it. We don't need Mark 1 coaches, just repaint some Mark 3s, and for rolling stock just put some old looking paint on the modern hoppers. Why did they change the passenger clothing to be more like 1950's? It doesn't matter, it's a video game. Where does "it's a video game" end as a reason to just do anything they want rather than recreating a historical setting accurately?
Don't bother joining this thread to come up with your comments. It is a simulation of driving trains, what you have to realise is the external is just as crucial as the internal.
I fully agree. I never knew Satin trousers were a thing in the late 50's There is requirements needed where the AI simulation should look and feel vintage as it was in the yesteryear.
It says that it's easier to excuse a situation that happened sometimes (crew would be pretty clean at the start of the day) as opposed to a situation that NEVER happened. And track joint sounds (a bug that might get fixed) and coal on the shovel (a bug that will likely get fixed) have been discussed and explained by DTG staff.
Welp, this topic is about to get worse now, much like the colorful containers that were first showed from Sherman Hill (ya know the ones I'm talking about). Let's just hope it doesn't get locked then, and that's all I'm gonna say here. See ya. *poof!*
I certainly hope not, being a retired military officer that went from an all male service to what we have today, my hat is off to the women who have served, especially the icebreakers who were first. Not only did they have to be good… they had to excel to overcome the opinionated [removed - JD - language] of the time. I rated my crew by their skills and dedication to their jobs and duty, not their sex. So I have no problem to allow a bit of modification of the old ways in a train simulation. If it ruins your immersion, so sorry that one can be so easily distracted by such a minor nod to today’s environment when it is totally immaterial to driving a locomotive. I guarantee you I have served with some women on my crews that would put most civilian men to shame for what they could physically accomplish.
Sometimes showing the past as it really was helps educate people about past injustices and evils - and helps youngsters realise how much progress we've made and what we still need to do. Hiding past injustice or sanitising the past doesn't help anyone. No one would produce a WW2 game that depicted Nazi Germany as a liberal inclusive LGBTQ+ friendly community... I hope... Yes, this is only a game, but games can be powerful.
I suspect at this point we probably need to redirect from the gender etc. of the footplate crews to more pressing matters…
Well they get away with it in movies, somehow. Watched “The Book Thief” last night (excellent and very moving) and there were swastikas everywhere, even on the trains and railway stations so it must have been filmed somewhere that allowed it. Have to say though, even though many years have passed and very few people are still alive from the WWII era, the sight of the swastika still sends a chill down my spine.
Please can someone tell me why they are releasing as a BETA DLC and not the full complete product? (excluding unforeseen bugs)
because they need the money because someone in the management team has decided "it's good enough" because they've moved significant amounts of developers off of the project onto the next thing because it's what DTG have always done (google "dovetail flywheel") Take your pick
Let's not forget the QA team who have never spent a single day on a railway by the looks of things... How on earth they have approved this in the state it is currently in is beyond me.
The Beta testers more than QA from what I understand. QA testing in DTG terms are more targetted testers for specific things, so unless "Does the fireman work as they would in 1958?" was the question they may not have found a similar answer to what you would
"Dovetail Flywheel" is exactly what we thought was going on, and going wrong, but is apparently a company policy. From the CDO: Our simulations are for ever evolving as we work a very effective flywheel of efficiency, productivity, and quality. From an anonymous employee on glassdoor: Depending on what you're working on, it's essentially a conveyor belt production line. Dovetail aim to churn out content to saturate their chosen hobby (Flight, fishing or Trains). This leads to rushed content and a well known reputation for shoddy work. One of the biggest cons is that it doesn't look like this is going to change. Dovetail are focused on the 'Dovetail flywheel', a concept where a game is created, and then content is created for it endlessly. This works in some cases (Train Simulator 2017), but not others (Flight Sim world).
A product that depicts the era it was set. For example, 1958 Crewe did not have 0 locos/services at 1pm in the afternoon. Partial fencing, track sounds, coal on a shovel. None have a certain fix promised by the developers(DTG). I won't even detail much as I stand by my statement.
Erm are you sure? Any thorough evidence to suggest they think it is normal to allow it for release with this 1 example?
So, the DLC will not be "full and complete" unless DTG first produce the half-dozen or so locomotives required to provide all those services.
Yes, I am sure. QA is concerned with the technical side of things. Aesthetics and gameplay are Beta's department.
Yeah but even so, the limited amount of services surely makes it an eye sore? It doesn't even have shunting in the yards, just something so it looks a little bit more 'busier'..
This thread has provided some good discussion, and some less good discussion - and some responses which are on the cusp of being unacceptable. Will be monitoring the thread, and if things tip over, I'll jump in. I'd suggest that if certain discussion points or responses are something which frustrate you, take 10 minutes and come back to it with a clearer head.
OK, so to make this topic a bit more constructive, what about the DLC would you miss out to enable more services or shunting or whatever? We know what's IN the pack but you wanted more / different so what would accomplish that
All this talk of 'DTG Flywheel' is so much nonsense. As with most games with a specialized fanbase and a non-subscription business model, the only way to survive is to have a continuous production line to keep the revenue flowing. The product mix, pricing/sale scheduling and release timing is something of a black art, but the process is unavoidable. As users, we should be concerned with how well DTG does on the quality/immersion front and it is fairly clear they are under-resourced in the QA/Test areas. All the whingeing (or most of it) would die away if bugs and inaccuracies were fixed (and released) in a timely manner. As it is, there is nothing more guaranteed to enrage the punters than an announcement of a fix/improvement, which is then not released after a year - although admitting the absence of a feature included in earlier DLCs (e.g rail sounds) and saying 'no idea if or when we will fix' comes close.
So what would I like different? My personal opinion on this is utilising both locos on a mixture of services. Perhaps the following would digest this: Jubilee on Mixed traffic services 8f on local services Double heading? (8f's freight, Jubilee's on express) 8f shunting in yard or Light engine movements to a siding & back Jubilee on freight substitutes I personally had it under the impression that DTG may offer for us to utilise either locomotive on the local services, so you could pick and choose etc, sadly that is not the case. Just to clarify, this is using the DLC we have already been promised and I do not see this being too uncommon or prototypical for that era..
"All of the whingeing would die away if bugs and inaccuracies were minimised in the first instance"... And yes, then any bugs found later fixed quickly... And timetables fully QAed... Sounds fixed... Physics issues dealt with...
